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IndustryArena Forum > Mechanical Engineering > Linear and Rotary Motion > Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)
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  1. #341
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
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    11

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Thank you for your information, Mike. I will think about it.

    For rack and pinion, I found the Nexen roll and pinion interesting. But I expect your solution more maintainable and easier to implement.

  2. #342
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    11

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Everman View Post
    There are two classes of T5 that we deal with "low clearance" and "zero clearance". What it means is that "low" will have a lost motion (total) of 150 microns or so, and "zero" has 50. You could plate your pinion so it's a sweet fit if it matters, at the risk of having a matched set, pinion to a specific bit of belt.
    Did you measure how much the backlash varies? If the backlash is software corrected, there will be some variation left. Is T5 better than GT e. g. in this respect?

  3. #343
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    31

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Sorry, being lazy but I didn’t want to read through all 29 pages of this thread. Is there a website where this is sold?
    Thanks!

  4. #344
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  5. #345
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by JoergS5 View Post
    Thanks a lot, Mike.

    So for GT2 I will need to use 40 teeth, this is diameter 25 mm then, similar to your T5 15 teeth 24mm. I will try it with steel. And I will need a gear unfortunately.

    For 3D printer this will maybe work, but for the 35-linear guide of the CNC machine I will use T5 then.

    I can keep you informed about the acceleration and speed I can achieve. I will post here.

    Regards,
    Joerg
    What gear down ratio are you planning on using?


    I am considering GT2 10mm in both sides, 20 teeth and those motors with a 5:1 ratio.
    Freies schiff 3 stücke 4-Blei NEMA 23 reduktion getriebe Stepper Motor, Getriebe verhältnis 15:1, 20n. m
    https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b834MfFE
    The second option is just one 3nm stepper in the middle of the gantry driving both sides, geared down with a belt at the motor.

    I might try a direct driven pinion first, maybe I don't need that power anyways.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Scot808 View Post
    Sorry, being lazy but I didn’t want to read through all 29 pages of this thread. Is there a website where this is sold?
    Thanks!
    Thank you for putting the link, Ger.
    Scott, generally no, we do not sell to the public. Our main focus is OEM sales, but we do sell one-offs rather regularly to OEM customers.

    The reason I am here is that I am happy to help DIYers with their own implementations. You would not be happy with the price of how we do it, and the whole concept is rather simple for you to apply.

    We unfortunately can’t currently sell bits and pieces, which is what you will end up wanting.
    Mike Visit my projects blog at: http://mikeeverman.com/
    http://www.bell-evermannews.com/ http://www.bell-everman.com

  7. #347
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    11

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Quote Originally Posted by heavyweather View Post
    What gear down ratio are you planning on using?


    I am considering GT2 10mm in both sides, 20 teeth and those motors with a 5:1 ratio.
    Freies schiff 3 stücke 4-Blei NEMA 23 reduktion getriebe Stepper Motor, Getriebe verhältnis 15:1, 20n. m
    https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b834MfFE
    The second option is just one 3nm stepper in the middle of the gantry driving both sides, geared down with a belt at the motor.

    I might try a direct driven pinion first, maybe I don't need that power anyways.
    The advantage to use GT2 over T5 is that it's nearly backlash free. You will loose this advantage with a gear again, so I would avoid a gear and try to find a stepper with 0.9 angle per step and high torque and try to use it without gear. An alternative is to use a harmonic drive as gear, which has low/no backlash. Cost is about 150$ used. It depends on what precision and speed you want to achieve. (e.g. high precision, low speed => harmonic drive 1:50).

  8. #348
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    333

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Hey Mike, did I read somewhere that it is necessary to have the belts in some kind of track to keep them from running off even though they are under some tension?
    Thanks

  9. #349
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    333

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Also, how much down pressure is required between the idler rollers and the belt?
    Thanks

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by tkms002 View Post
    Also, how much down pressure is required between the idler rollers and the belt?
    Thanks
    In answer to your previous question, yes the belt needs to be captured with side walls, flanges on the pulley or idlers do not work. As far as pressure between the idlers on the stack of two belts, no, no pressure. Close to zero clearance is best.
    Mike Visit my projects blog at: http://mikeeverman.com/
    http://www.bell-evermannews.com/ http://www.bell-everman.com

  11. #351
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    74

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    In my building gantry router cnc machine, 3 axis are through the timing belt drive connections to the ballscrews. No solid solution to the little non-synchronization between gantry drives or backlash are there then. May be the using of glass scale encoder is a solution. But it cannot be implemented in Mach3 environment under servo or stepper motor drive conditions. Presently, no step down gear ratio are used between the timing belt pulleys(Is it better than using small pinion to a large gear in term of backlash amount??). Two 32 teeth are linked with MT5 belt. Wider belt is more preferable in that case as well. Thanks.

  12. #352
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    333

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Has anybody ever implemented Mike's system by forming the bottom "belt" from epoxy using a real belt as a mold?

  13. #353
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    I've seen a router where the bottom belt profile was machined into aluminum.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  14. #354
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    333

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    I've seen a router where the bottom belt profile was machined into aluminum.
    now if I only had a mill with the correct profile cutter. That would be the best way to go I would think

  15. #355
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    76

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Quote Originally Posted by tkms002 View Post
    now if I only had a mill with the correct profile cutter. That would be the best way to go I would think
    I personally think that would not be an improvement. If the lower belt wears enough that you need to change it out that would take 20 minutes. If the aluminum wears out how long will it take to change it out? Especially if you have to mill the aluminum first. T5 belt is so inexpensive it makes no sense to reinvent the wheel! Go with a wider belt if you think you need more ability to handle the force.

  16. #356
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1661

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Quote Originally Posted by tkms002 View Post
    Has anybody ever implemented Mike's system by forming the bottom "belt" from epoxy using a real belt as a mold?
    Ha ha ha! First time I check this thread in a long time and this is what I read.
    Yes I did exactly that. Super simple setup, I even made it on a table as a base. I put some tension on the belt and made sidewalls leaving a few mm space. Then poured and it worked really well.

  17. #357
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    30

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Quote Originally Posted by svenakela View Post
    Ha ha ha! First time I check this thread in a long time and this is what I read.
    Yes I did exactly that. Super simple setup, I even made it on a table as a base. I put some tension on the belt and made sidewalls leaving a few mm space. Then poured and it worked really well.
    Interesting, I was thinking about doing this last year. Never got to it.
    Which epoxy did you use? I assume you greased or waxed the belt before pouring? Which belt?

  18. #358

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Funny, I do not get alerts for this thread or I would have chimed in!
    So, with regard to molding the base teeth, I too have done this, and the first discovery was that clearance is needed to allow the very slight pitch changes of the upper belt, from belt to belt. It will mesh with an upper belt over a short distance, or sometimes a long distance, but not reliably, belt run to belt run. Clearance is needed. So, you need to replicate the base belt complete, which adds another step and for a one-off, not worth making a mold.
    For me, having base belt sections that are molded would be a good thing, but has not yet become essential. VHB to hold base belting down is great stuff if you use it right.

    Either way, when I make a mold, it will be cut metal, and geometrically will make base teeth the same as the belting. Some features, though, like the little groove in the bottom of the groove, aid in getting air out of the mesh, reducing noise, and are a complication that would be solved well by replication..

    ding, the more you know..
    Mike Visit my projects blog at: http://mikeeverman.com/
    http://www.bell-evermannews.com/ http://www.bell-everman.com

  19. #359
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    168

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    We put this drive in our KL7 Series CNC routers at BobsCNC. I love the cleverness of this design.

    https://youtu.be/GRhJgDyyM7g

  20. #360
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    4

    Re: Best belt drive ever! (If I do say so myself)

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    I've seen a router where the bottom belt profile was machined into aluminum.
    Hello, me too, it's ok.

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