[PhoenixMetal]

I have designed several dies in SolidWorks and need to find a CNC toolmaking shop that can produce from my 3d models.

All the diemakers that I know of are old-school - they need two months to make anything and do their work with hand-fed milling machines, and they work only with 2D cad and don't know 3D modelling.

I'm looking for a shop that can take my SolidWorks models, program their CNC milling machines, machining centers or EDM, and turn out a part to my specifications in a short amount of time.

Does anybody have this capability or know of a good shop for this?

[bostosh]

Being new / old school student, teacher and practitioner, I have to ask.
Is this job capable of being done 2-D?
The old school may be cheaper and better.

or involve complex 3-D cavity contouring, x,y,z size,
shot volume, runner design, ejector pins, slides, threads, plastic, or zinc/aluminum metal, over/under rockwell 64, tooling budget, ??? etc.

Much depends upon the part you wish to produce and the quantity. Sure, I have worked on molds for Detroit which were guaranteed 500,000 cycles and Aerospace concept molds used 5 times. Or even Space Shuttle tooling for three parts, then throw away the tooling. There are many ways to accomplish your parts.

Please, I need more information to be of assistance.
Brian O

[PhoenixMetal]

HI Brian,

Well yes this is certainly doable in 2-D, but it is just so much more difficult to communicate back and forth and so much harder to make and communicate changes in the 2D when one person is working with a solid model, and the other with 2D AutoCad.

Plus if I knew that the part was being made via CNC directly from my models, it would give me much more confidence in my ability to mix and match these die components with other tooling components that I already own, or which are off-the-shelf components - knowing that holes will line up just right, and clearances will be exactly as specified.

So by all means, an experienced old-school toolmaker can certainly make what I need, and maybe you are the right person to do this, and for certain when it comes to toolmaking I know that experience is everything... But I just have more faith in CNC processes to produce exactly what is on my computer screen.

I can PM you further details of what I have in mind if you are interested.

[firepoker1965]

Take a look at the site MFG.com.It is free for buyers so maybe it can help you.Let me know what you think.It does look interesting.

Tony

[bostosh]

PhoenixMetal
If your die design is totally perfect as wanted in Solidworks,
just reduce it to drawings with tolerances,
Cad models need a translator to the shop,
Thats what I do, speak both languages.
Detailing and machining from CAD
Am I understanding what you need?

[warrenb]

I am sure i can help. PM with the solidworks model (or XMT, STEP, IGES) or the finished part and I can take a look. I produce many molds using many different models.

a few things we'll need. Shrink, tolerances, and material.

Warrenb

[PhoenixMetal]

Take a look at the site MFG.com.It is free for buyers so maybe it can help you.Let me know what you think.It does look interesting.

Tony

Thanks Firepoker,

That actually looks like it might be a good site. Kind of like Alibaba in a way, but it looks like this site gets more involved in the quoting process, rather than just being a place to make connections. And it seems to be US-centric, rather than primarily for suppliers in China. I might have a use for that someday.

Thanks,
-PhoenixMetal

[PhoenixMetal]

PhoenixMetal
If your die design is totally perfect as wanted in Solidworks,
just reduce it to drawings with tolerances,
Cad models need a translator to the shop,
Thats what I do, speak both languages.
Detailing and machining from CAD
Am I understanding what you need?

Hi Botosh,

Yeah, you do have a good idea for communicating Solidworks models with 2D folks... Especially since in Solidworks once you make a drawing from a 3D model, the 2D drawings automatically update themselves with new changes to the 3D model.

[firepoker1965]

I worked with a small tool shop where we made the die blocks all on cnc mill and wirecutting machines.Even the die sets and subplates were done on the cnc mill.We used Mastercam software which is used with Solidworks.Things did not always go perfectly but then it never does!

Good luck.

tony

[michaeljmorrow]

i work at a old school tool and die shop we do alot of things old school are competion is one of the largest they have fully automated robotic machines that cost millions there constantly dumping money into there buisness to try and do what i do on machine that come out in the 60s if it works y replace em anyway 3d is fine but pretty much you very seldemy ever realy need it ur third dimension is only depth people think of 3d there like oh god its definatley harder to draw but in most cases i dont because its not needed cost extra although we have cnc lathes mills several diferent types of edms cnc grinders we have the equipment but its hard to make money on something unless there a return customer somebody who wants to set up a contract for these parts are draftsman and cnc programer also has some real good tricks on converting those solid works drawings makes it compatible with are equipment we dont use solid we use bobcad mastercad mostly i meet be able to help u more if i knew a lil more about the die

[firepoker1965]

Well Micheal ,I'm not really sure I understand your point but if you need some dies built from SolidWorks I can do that for you.

tony

[roninB4]

If it's a stamping die then 2D will be just fine in almost all circumstances. I do 3D modeling (Pro-E) and it is beneficial when creating parts but unless it's a mold I don't see why it's required. Most of the machining work I did for molds was also in 2D with a small number of jobs that had Z axis profiling in the core/cavity. Accuracy is not solely the domain of CNC either, if the machine is incapable of holding tolerance then your design won't be reflected in metal. CNC centers get worn out like any other machine. Your targeted design has to fall within a budget constraint doesn't it? So perhaps it really shouldn't matter how that was achieved so long as intent was realized and falls within the budget you've set. If you're uncomfortable with "old school" methods then you'll never know when to use them or discard them. Technology isn't everything, results are. JMO, it's your time and money.

[Die61]

I have designed several dies in SolidWorks and need to find a CNC toolmaking shop that can produce from my 3d models.

All the diemakers that I know of are old-school - they need two months to make anything and do their work with hand-fed milling machines, and they work only with 2D cad and don't know 3D modelling.

I'm looking for a shop that can take my SolidWorks models, program their CNC milling machines, machining centers or EDM, and turn out a part to my specifications in a short amount of time.

Does anybody have this capability or know of a good shop for this?

Phoenix,

I know this is an old thread but, just wondering how you made out getting your tooling manufactured?
I don't know about the tool shops where you're located but, around here most die shops are fully 3D solids based. The few 2D shops which remain are just prolonging their agony (for a while)!
Die maker here since the late 70's, spent 12 years freelance die designing & have owned 2 shops.
BTW, your statement re. diemakers & 3D modeling doesn't hold too much water.
Die makers couldn't give a rat's a$$ if the design is 2D or 3D, it's purely for integration with CNC's..........& lesser skilled designers who couldn't design in 3D even if they were shown!
:cheers:
Paul

[mactec54]

PhoenixMetal

We did not see if you wanted dies or molds, There is a big difference it would be interesting to know this as well,
dies mostly are better in 2D & molds Can be both

[PhoenixMetal]

Its been about two years since I originally started this thread... Since then we have bought a CNC machining center and have built several progressive dies for our own use in house.

Having done these things myself, I now realize (and agree with several of the posts) that it really doesn't matter whether the diemaker works in 2D or 3D, or even necessarily whether they are using CNC or manual equipment.

However, I still do feel that if the design is done in 3D, it makes communication between the designer and diemaker so much more fluid if the diemaker were also working in 3D. For example, discussions regarding changes to the design to facilitate the realities of the machining process, etc.

[Die61]

Its been about two years since I originally started this thread... Since then we have bought a CNC machining center and have built several progressive dies for our own use in house.

Having done these things myself, I now realize (and agree with several of the posts) that it really doesn't matter whether the diemaker works in 2D or 3D, or even necessarily whether they are using CNC or manual equipment.

However, I still do feel that if the design is done in 3D, it makes communication between the designer and diemaker so much more fluid if the diemaker were also working in 3D. For example, discussions regarding changes to the design to facilitate the realities of the machining process, etc.

Glad to hear you were successful.
Solids design has reduced the requiered skill level for both designer & toolmaker thereby making it a much more profitable way to manufacture tools.........if the design is sound?!
However, if only manual machines are being used, solids design is not necessary & will increase your manufacturing costs.
:cheers:
Paul

[mactec54]

PhoenixMetal

You put that very well, it is just like you say, Glad that you got going on your projects,
sometimes the only way is to do it yourself

[CastCNC]

Hi All, I know this thread is long in the tooth but it seems a few die makers are still about. I have interest in getting a quote on casting dies for use with aluminum in gravity die casting.

I will be upfront in that I dont have a lot of money to spend on this but if the cost is not too high I would like to start with one smaller part to see how it goes then progress through several other parts that I currently sand cast. So basically looking for a ballpark to let me know if this will be a feasible option.

If someone is interested in discussing this with me please send a PM, I have solid models of the part I can provide and I can also make a model of the negative.

Thanks,

Harry

[roninB4]

[QUOTE=PhoenixMetal;765006]

However, I still do feel that if the design is done in 3D, it makes communication between the designer and diemaker so much more fluid if the diemaker were also working in 3D. QUOTE]


Perhaps so, it would also help if the designer could understand how his designs are nothing but pretty graphics until they are machined. A conversation needs to be conducted with effort from BOTH parties as each attempts to grasp the reality of the other. A tool (3D or CNC) is merely a means to an end and only as good as the operator. The best engineers I've worked with were former toolmakers. The best toolmakers I've worked with understood the principles of engineering. Only the ignorant/arrogant ignored the function of the other. JMO