[Capokid]

Hello all! You seem like a friendly and helpful bunch so here is my scenario and question:

-Background-
I have 2 years experience using solidworks / surfcam to program some pretty large custom machines (custom form tools etc.). I mainly programmed 3-axis stuff, with a little 3+2 from one machine. I also hand coded a few machines and "fixed" some programs on the fly at the control. However, I have never actually run a machine. I have since left that job - too many hours and not enough days in the week.

On to my new job. They have asked me to bring them up to speed with their quickly growing CNC machine shop. I have already got solidworks up and running and was wondering which of the three CAM programs I should go with that I mentioned in the subject. There is one guy hand coding all the machines that we have right now. He is very busy. We have:

3-axis
Haas VF-7
Haas VF-5
Haas EC-3000
Kia V60
Mitsubishi M-VR35 (another one on the way)
Mitsubishi M-VR30 (being installed as we speak)

4-axis
2 Haas EC-500

5-axis
Mitsubishi M-VR40 (2 months out)

And a Clausing Lathe (probably won't use the software to program this)
3 Motoman robot welders
2 laser cutting machines
1 plasma cutter
& a half dozen or so oxy-fuel burn machines

We make big steel things!


Most of the work we do right now is just facing, hole-making and pocketing. With the 5-axis on the way, I can see that changing pretty quickly. I have had the opportunity to have all 3 companies come and run their demo's for us. I liked the feature recognition with Camworks, but I still get the chills about having to eat up a Solidworks license to run a cam system. Mastercam seems really nice but I have been in the demo version that they sent me and the interface seems really foreign to me. Obviously, I would be most comfortable with Surfcam, but I was wondering if there was anything that I would be missing out on by passing over Mastercam.

Sorry for being so winded - just wanted to give you all the info up front. Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Dan B]

Why just those programs?

Do you intend to do simultaneous 5-axis cutting on the 5-axis machine, or 3+2, or a mix of both?

Dan

[Capokid]

Why just those programs?

Surfcam for obvious reasons. The other two were recommended to me to check out. Unfortunately I am being told that I need to make a decision based on these three.

Do you intend to do simultaneous 5-axis cutting on the 5-axis machine, or 3+2, or a mix of both?

Mix of both.

[Dan B]

That's too bad that your hands are tied because if not I would suggest giving a serious look at PowerMill or WorkNC for your 5-axis needs. Both these programs will also handle everything from 2-axis and up, but are very good at 5-axis. WorkNC has something called Auto5 with is basically a module that will convert any 3-axis path to a 5-axis path. You can shorten up the tool length and WorkNC will put in the proper rotations to prevent the holder from colliding. It's pretty sweet.

Dan

[crazythunder]

WorkNC has something called Auto5 with is basically a module that will convert any 3-axis path to a 5-axis path.

Mastercam has the same ability. Mastercam can do anything you need in 5 axis given the right post. It will not check NC code and I would recommend a Verification software like Predator on the low end or Vericut on the high end. I would recommend you hope over to the emastercam forum if you have any specific questions related to Mastercam and its capabilities. There is a Mastercam area on here though it gets very little traffic compared to the emastercam forum with regards to Mastercam and Mastercam alone.

[Dan B]

Mastercam has the same ability.

Really? I didn't know that. I looked on their web-site and I don't see any mention of it. Can you tell me more about how it works, and maybe provide a link where I can read about it?

Thanks,

Dan

[crazythunder]

It is in the advanced 5 axis toolpath. It is called Conversion to 5 axis and work great. It dpe npt have any documentation about it. Sorry I looked was going to copy a PDF but they do not talk about it.

[Dan B]

Sorry I looked was going to copy a PDF but they do not talk about it.

That's not too smart of them. Why would you hide the ability to convert a traditional 3 axis path to a full simultaneous 5-axis path? They should be promoting that and using it as a selling point.

Dan

[crazythunder]

You would think, but they do a lot of things in the Marketing department that make a lot of people scratch their heads. They talk about capabilities not yet released or releases not yet done that they make will arse claims about new releases. I wish I could run business I have been in charge of the same way and keep my customers.

I think you also got you answer in the other Forum emastercam.

[Dan B]

Thanks for the feedback here and there. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

Dan

[CNCRim]

Here is my 2 cent. If sometime how the road and you see the company need more Lathe then Mill then I could say you should give Mastercam a try..... Mastercam offer more lathe feature then Surfcam. Camwork have a nice reconigtion feature but I found sometime it does do what I like them to do.

I said you should go with Surfcam, because you know it the most and I have feel you can get the part running fast with Surfcam. So why not go with Surfcam, it's a exellent 5-axis CAD/CAM. The employer will you more credit with production, not how many CAD/CAM you have experience with.

[NexGenMfg]

If you are doing 5X work, then I'd encourage you to look at hyperMILL, which is a Gold Parntner in Solidworks. The 5X functions are awesome. I like an Integrated Solution whenever possible.

If you want to program the robots, and don't mind a stand-alone solution, Mastercam has a robot programming add-in called RobotMaster that is very good.

[Shawn Schwartz]

Mastercam has the same ability. Mastercam can do anything you need in 5 axis given the right post. It will not check NC code and I would recommend a Verification software like Predator on the low end or Vericut on the high end.

I have never heard anything about this function in Mastercam. You should look at them both then. Anyone can make any software look great in a demo!! When you try it out in your shop on your parts you find out the real deal. See for yourself which one is better.

[Mike Stevenson]

I would forget Mastercam completely and get your money's worth with Siemens NX6 CAD/CAM for almost the same price as MasterDOS.

[cadcam]

Anyone can make any software look great in a demo!!

Yes put a few of us posters actually cut 5axis with mastercam besides doing demos.

PS Mike Mastercam is not dos if you stopped using V9 and move to MCX and higher.

[Shawn Schwartz]

Yes put a few of us posters actually cut 5axis with mastercam besides doing demos.

cadcam, I am just saying that if someone is looking for software the best thing they can do is try them in the shop for themselves. Do you disagree with this? If you are going to buy a new car do you ask to test drive it or do you just buy it because someone told you it's great. Their needs and/or likes, most times are completely different from yours. Maybe I am the only one that things that though. Obviously I am pro WorkNC but that doesn't mean that it is a perfect fit in every shop. Nobody but the guy buying the software knows if it will be, and the only way he can find that out is by trying it in the shop. I would be a little skeptical of any software that did not let you try it before you buy it.

As for the comment about actually cutting with the software, I used the software everyday in the shop.

Shawn

[Alan L]

Absolutely ask for a benchmark or evaluation, especially for 5-axis. Most of these guys use a plug-in, often to cover the user's checklist - yes I have 5-axis.

The benchmark may thin the field, but you will also get a better sense of the product you may buy, and you will be able to see the capability of the local sales engineer / dealer AE. This will help you evaluate the investment you are about to make.

[Mike Stevenson]

Mastercam's 5 axis is absolutely a 3rd party, stapled on, plug-in. Very good point Alan.

And Cadcam, so you think Mastercam X is a native windows program now? How come pressing CTRL Z doesn't undo the last command like it does in any other true windows program? (nuts)

[bostosh]

http://www.pcapt.com/
http://www.nccs.com/pages/Products_main.html
Maybe Catia can compete too

[Shawn Schwartz]

There is no real choice except these

Then let me have your customer list....I mean I'm no threat right?