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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    32

    Mitsubishi Meldas M3 Control?

    Hey guys, I have an mid 90's Dyna Mite Machine that has a Mitsubishi Meldas M3 control. I have all the parameters set in the machine as it was as new. But It seems I'm not getting any communication between the axis drives and the control as the LED display on the drives just say "Ab"... Its not displaying any alarms or errors, but I can't move the machine in X, Y, or Z, or turn on the spindle? anyone have any ideas? I'm kind of lost..(nuts)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    24216
    Did you have it working or is this a 'New' machine?
    Does the Mode change on the screen when you operate the Op Panel mode switch?
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    32
    This machine was in working order a few years back. However, a few new machines came in the door and this got shoved in a corner. Kinda of making it my little project to get it in running order again to at least be able to sell it and gain some floorspace for another machine. But I'd like to use it for one off stuff so i don't have to tear down a setup on a machine running production.

    So I reinitialized it, put a new battery in the back of the control since the old one was dead, and loaded in all the machine parameters.

    You mean if I change modes from mdi, memory, jog,home, handle x,y,x? Yes, it shows the mode as being changed on the control. The alarm light on the control is constantly flashing, but displays no alarm. Seems like there is no communication between the control and the axis drives.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    Go into the ladder and search for the alarm light output, Yxxx,x, this may help assist in what is the cause of the problem.
    Do you have any schematics or ladder listing, I/O etc?
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    32
    Hey Al,

    I have the ladder diagrams in the back of the maintenance manual and it shows conditions for a blinking alarm light, however I'm not sure how to look up on this control? :withstupi you'll have to be patient with me !

    Thanks,
    Tom

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    You should be able to look up the ladder and a particular output via the FO key, LADDER, CIRCUIT, and key in an input or output, scroll though using the MENU key.
    Also the DIAG screen shows status of individual I/O bits X is inputs and Y is outputs.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    672
    Which model Dyna? 4400?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    259
    There is some generic info about the 4400 with the Meldas control in this thread:

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50787

    Nothing to help you diagnose your problem, I'm afraid, but I thought I'd point it out. Capris used to be a factory tech, so he will probably be more helpful than me.

    Chris.
    List of parts sources for CNC builders - http://www.CNCsources.net
    Dyna Mechtronics 4400C Conversion - CNC bed mill w/toolchanger to Mach3 conversion - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50787

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    32
    Thanks Al,

    And yes, this is a 4400M. It has the Mitsubishi Meldas M3 control instead of the dyna language previously used on earlier models.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    32
    Ok.... well here's a bit more insight for you guys. This is the second time I have re-initialized the machine. My uncle, who has worked in machine tool repair for years, and has a fair amount of knowledge on the Dyna's came up to help. He wanted to start from scratch to make sure everything was as it should be. The first time I initialized it there was communication between the drives and the control. After the second time we initialized it, there is no longer any communication between the drives and control. The LED's on the drives just say Ab, which by what i have read means the control is in standby? even though the control is powered up?... Hope this helps some. My next thought would be to check all the cables running from the control to the drives. I've reseated all of them and all seems well, but I don't think thats the problem since they were communicating the first time I re-initialized.(nuts)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    32
    Alright well here's an update. I somehow stumbled upon this. I pretty much just noticed that the Spindle drive wasn't doing anything whatsoever, and the Axis drives were in a state of standby... so I Unhooked the main communication cable that goes from the control --->axis controller----> axis controller--->spindle controller, from the spindle controller. Powered the machine on, and there i go... drives are communicating with the control... all sorts of alarms since I unhooked it from the Spindle drive. Well next I unhooked the cable between the axis controller and the spindle drive from the axis controller. Took the RF transistor plug off the spindle controller and put it on the axis drive where I unhooked the communication cable. Basically cutting the Spindle drive out of the picture. Power On, axis drives are communicating, no alarms, and I can move the machine in all of its 3 axis. So basically I have a spindle drive problem. Welp, any more input is appreciated and i'll keep this updated.(nuts)


    BTW.... anyone have one available (nuts)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    672
    I have two of these Dyna 4400Ms. It is possible that the parameters are not set correctly still. In fact, one of my machines had the battery die last week and I had to reload everything. After reloading the parameters, the red alarm light still blinked until I completely cycled the power on the machine. Similar to yours, I had a blinking alarm light, but no alarm was displayed on the ALARM/DIAG screen.

    Here's what I did:
    Initialize the MC-161 card
    - In the back cabinet, find the MC-161 card on the control.
    - Locate the DIP switches along the edge of the MC-161 card.
    - Starting from the topmost switch, flip the first, third, and fifth switches on.
    - Turn on the main disconnect, then turn on the control for 30 seconds.
    - Power everything off and set all the DIP switches back to the left/off positions,
    - Power up the control again.

    Format the memory and load the canned cycles
    - Go to the ALARM/DIAG screen and press the soft key for PLC-I/F.
    - At the bottom of the screen in the first three fields, enter 1001 in the DEVICE field, leave DATA empty, and M in MODE and press input.
    - Go to the TOOL/PARAM screen, and press the soft key for BASE2
    - Change fix_P to have a value of 1.
    - Go to PROGRAM/ IN/OUT screen.
    - Press the soft key IN/OUT at the bottom of the screen.
    - Press the soft key for ERASE.
    - In the DATA field, type FORMAT and press input.
    - Press the soft key INPUT.
    - In the #( ) field, enter 4 and press the input key to reload the fixed cycles.

    Set I/O parameters to transfer machine parameter file
    - Go to TOOL/PARAM screen
    - Use NEXT soft key twice to show I/O PARAM and press the soft key for it.
    - On the first screen, we only care about the first three for DATA IN, DATA OUT, and NC RUNNING. Set them all the same for now. Set DEVICE to 0. Set PORT to 0 if you're using the connector on the back cabinet or set PORT to 1 if using the port on the side of the front console.
    - Press the soft key NEXT to get to page 2/5.
    - There are three fields to enter data. The first is for the DEVICE you are communicating with (in case you want to use different settings for simple transfer and DNC modes), the second field is the parameter #, and the last is the value of the parameter.
    - I set my machines with the following:
    - These settings will run 9600 baud, 7 data bits, even parity, and 2 stop bits.
    Code:
    DEVICE NAME   XON
    BAUD RATE       1
    STOP BIT        3
    PARITY EFF      0
    EVEN PARITY     0
    CR. LENGTH      0
    TERM TYPE       0
    TERM CODE1      0
    TERM CODE2      0
    REWIND CODE     0
    HANDSHAKE       3
    DC CODE PARITY  1

    Transfer the parameter file to the machine
    - Get your PC ready to transfer.
    - Go to PROGRAM/IN/OUT and press the soft key IN/OUT.
    - Press the soft key for INPUT.
    - In the # ( ) field, enter 3 and then cursor over to the DATA field. Leave it blank and press the input key. If the PC is ready and the RS-232 cable is correctly wired, the control will be waiting for data.
    - Go back to the PC and initiate the transfer.
    - When all the data is in, press RESET.
    - Power off the control, then power off the main disconnect.
    - Wait about 5 seconds and power the machine back up.

    You will still need to load the tool change macro also.

    I have attached the parameter file from my 4400M.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    32
    Wow, well ok. This is been a definite learning experience for me. And thanks for your advise to fix Caprirs, I'll use your input when I get to that point again for sure!.

    However I have some new, news/info. I got the maintenance manual out for this Mitsubishi drive to look up some trouble shooting etc. Well basically i checked around, nothing on the board looks burnt, or seems to be arcing... the three fuses are good... and then i found the reset button. So I reset the board, power off, power on, turn on control and there we go. Its communicating again and I Have a Alarm 10, Low Voltage alarm once again. Any tips on that? Basically the manual says to swap the option board out for another to see if the alarm repeats...

    Tom

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    32
    Also, the RS-232 cable .... is it a DTE or a DCE?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    672
    Low Voltage? What is the voltage coming into the machine? Mitsubishi rates their stuff for 220VAC +/- 10%. Some machines are more sensitive than others. Once the voltage goes below 200VAC, the machine can alarm or even just shut off. Do you have any voltage drop from the main disconnect to the R, S, & T terminals along the bottom of the drive? Loose wires perhaps?

    Err, I'm not very smart about the RS-232 terminology. I'm using 9 pin at the PC and obviously 25 pin on the Mitsubishi end. Prior to this year, I used a 9 pin to 25 pin serial cable with a 25 pin null modem adapter at the Mits end. Worked fine with Windows Hyperterminal for transfers but would not drip feed. I have since switched to Betatronics for electrical isolation and iWorkshop software.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    32
    Thanks for the info on the rs232 cable Caprirs

    I've checked the voltage and its 226 going into the machine, and the same going into the drive where you said to check... so I haven't seen any voltage drop up to there. I've done some looking around throughout the drive and don't see anything burn, or soemthing that looks like its arcing out... there are three fuses... just checked continuity with a volt meter and they check out fine... I'm reading through a trouble shooting manual as i type this...

    btw... the spindle drive is a fr-sfj-2-3.7k-t

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    Quote Originally Posted by Talisman View Post
    Also, the RS-232 cable .... is it a DTE or a DCE?
    You need a three wire cable with the Hardware handshake jumpered out, here is a PDF, ignore the Fanuc par, the 25p to 9p cable hook up applies.
    Al.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    672
    Plenty of voltage. Have you called Mitsubishi yet?

    Just to clarify. The machine was working fine, got parked in the corner for a while, and this issue arrived with the re-animation of the machine?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    32
    No..i haven't called mitsu yet, but probably will today.

    As far as i know it was in working order, but the new machines came in and it was much more productive to use the new machines, and another mill we had as a cell, so this one got cut out of the line.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    672
    Call Kevin Sellers in the LA office (714) 220-4796, I think. Kevin is more familiar with the Dynas than the Chicago folks.

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