[Villainstone]

When I was a kid I remember going over to my grand fathers house and watching him work in his basement. My grandfather is a fabricator and works with Harley motorcycles. He does the same stuff as those OCC guys from the Discovery channel on TV. Anyway he has a metal lathe that is about 6' long with a huge tray under to catch all the shavings. A HUGE mill press that he had hooked up to a computer of some sort. I always loved watching my grandpa make things from scratch like a solid block of metal to part for a motorcycle. He has even designed and patented motorcycle parts, and sold them to the Harley cooperation. To say the least my grandpa can do amazing and inspiring things with a block of metal... copper, aluminum, and steel.

Ok so now I am grown up and I would like to try my hand at simpler, and beginner level pieces of work. I figured the first thing I will need is a mill machine, and some bits. I will need clamps and such and eventually a computer to control the feed rate/ precision.

I really do not know where to start and I really do not want to initially invest in expensive equipment. I have been looking around Google and found a decent mill for a decent price. The Mill I am looking at is just the right price range. If you guys can help by linking some other good equipment that can be had for cheap I would appreciate it. If I really do go through with this I would say that 1000.00 is my MAXIMUM for all equipment to get STARTED. So can some help me find what I need. I would ask my Grandpa but that would be very difficult if you know what I mean. Thanks in advance guys, and please try and help me so I am not in over my head and over budget.

One last thing though. I really hate to do a lot of reading, I don't mind reading what I need to but if I can teach myself that is what I like doing. I think nothing can beat good ol trial and error. I am not saying I am lazy but my reading comprehension is not that great I am ashamed to say.

[ZipSnipe]

Too bad ya didn't get Gramps tools!! Anyway that mill would be fine for a starter mill, its the tooling that ya really need to spend money on. Ebay a good place to get tooling also try http://grizzlyindustrial.com/. For starters you,ll need a 6" dial caliper , indicator, square, scribes, 0-1"micrometer, 123 blocks and cutters and such.

[Villainstone]

Awesome is there a place that I can research these items. I would like to know what these tools are and what they do. As of time of typing this post I have not yet clicked your link. I will as soon as I am done with this post. Anyway I am serious about learning, and I know that I can teach myself many things. But there are things that need to be researched of course. Research is how I found this website and I figure it was as good a place as any to start.

If anyone could provide me some good material that will not give me a headache lol, I would love to check it out and learn what I can. As for right now I am going to try and learn about the tools you mentioned. Thanks a lot man, have a good one.

[Crevice Reamer]

Hi Villainstone. Welcome to the Zone!

Here is some information:

http://www.americanmachinetools.com/...ng_machine.htm

http://www.americanmachinetools.com/...se_a_lathe.htm

CR.

[LeeWay]

That is a decent starter mill. That particular one has metal gears, which is great for a beginner. I busted my plastic ones once and replaced with plastic again. Never broke another, but not for lack of trying.
Guys refer to this machine as an X2, so if you read some of the threads here that say X2, you know they are talking about the same basic machine. Many retailers used to sell these, but not as many now.

Since you say you hate reading, watching some of the machining videos on Youtube and elsewhere could be beneficial.
Good luck with it and let us know how it goes.

[Villainstone]

Thanks a lot Crevice and Lee, I am reading the How to: that Crevice linked me and as soon as I am done I am going to check out youtube . Also sense this mill cost about 600.00 shipped to my house, what else should I need to get started making computer waterblocks, and computer heatsinks for chipsets,and RAM IC's?

Can someone tell me the main differences between this one
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mini...-Machine/G8689
and this one
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares...oduct&ID=82573

[Crevice Reamer]

They are almost the same mill, but the Micro mark has metal gears and a different lead screw that gives a true inch measurement. The Grizzly has the better warranty (one year) and is quick with help and parts.

There is another variant of the X2 that Harbor freight sells. IT comes with an R8 spindle instead of the MT3 that the first two have. If you have a Harbor freight near you, you can pick it up from the store and save shipping. HF also has 15% off coupons occasionally, and sales that can markedly lower the price.

I prefer the R8 because tooling is slightly cheaper, but the Harbor freight warranty is only 90 day replacement.

The gears in these mills are not really important, because you will eventually want to install a belt drive conversion, and that eliminates the gears.

I would go with the Grizzly instead of the HF or Micro mark, if I had it to do again.

CR.

[Regnar]

First Welcome to the zone and your new addiction. To throw another wrench into your works this is also the same mill http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991 and often goes on sale for 429.00 shipped to the store for free. Sometimes and it seems to be a wash that you can also use a 10 or 15% off coupon on sales prices.

Although this link is to a retailer he is one of the better ones that I have dealt with. If you goto his learning center he will educate you on the differences betweens the mill Ie. Metal gears or plastic, R8 or MT3 spindle so on a so forth. http://littlemachineshop.com/Info/ge...1.htm&d=0|2|13


Some words of advice stay away from CNCbridges. You will eventually find out who he is because everyone loves his made up product.

For plug and play cnc conversion you might want to check out cncfusion.com and if you willing to learn how to use your mill manually and cut your own kit you will want to check out Hoss's X2 freak.

I also have a link to an online college that does a great job of showing you how to use the mill along with some projects but I seem to have missplaced the link. Either way welcome and goodluck

[Villainstone]

So I read the whole PDF for the mini mill, and the Little Machine shop "Getting started" article. I now have a pretty good idea of what I am getting into. I will need to buy collets, vise/clamps, end mills, measurement tools, etc. Does anyone know what tools I will need that are more specific to my cause. What I mean is, since I am trying to focus on heatsinks and water blocks I will need to be able to cut blocks of aluminum and copper into a base plate and fins. What would I need to make something like this, or this, and even the copper portion this? Considering that my short term goal is to make similar items and hopefully sell them. I think finding the more specific tools that I would need to build these things would be a good place to start. I do not yet know all the different end mills that are available, or what the different types are designed to do I feel that I need to ask.

Thanks a lot so far guys for all your help. you have been great hosts so far and I am feeling very welcome here. I am optimistic in my endeavors and can see that I will be sticking around for a long time.

[Hunter12]

You will need slitting saws to do those heat sinks with tight spaces. You can do it with the manual mills you chose, just take your time and use coolant.

[Villainstone]

You will need slitting saws to do those heat sinks with tight spaces. You can do it with the manual mills you chose, just take your time and use coolant.

Awesome thanks I will remember slitting saws. I already have an idea of the amount of time and patience I will need to operate a mill manually. In time I will get a CNC type, well at least I hope I will.

I have been looking around at metal stock and boy is copper expensive. Aluminum seems to be pretty cheap, but a 12"x.5"x2" copper bar is like 50.00 bucks. If I am able to get 5 water blocks out of it I could charge about 50.00 a block, providing it is adequate. I do realize that there are many factors involved here and I am just looking at it simply, but I have a good idea of what is needed. I have my work cut out for me and it will be fun I am sure.

I would also like to know what I need to make threaded holes. As a kid I remember my Grandpa making extra holes in engine heads for extra spark plugs. But I cannot remember how he threaded the holes for the spark plugs.

[LeeWay]

Drilling and hand tapping is the way to go.
Shy away from the starter sets unless it's decent quality. Couple hundred bucks there.
You will be using small taps anyway. I suggest you just buy those as needed. Initially get you a small collet type T handle tap holder. Again, a quality one will save you frustration and help do a better job.
Tapping is kind of an art in itself. It takes practice and with these, practice will cost material and taps as well as time. Tap scraps first. Use cutting oil or tapping fluid for larger stuff, candle wax and machine oil work fine for small taps like you will be using.

Keeping the tap straight in the hole will be a challenge as well. Several ways to tackle that when the time comes.

[Fixittt]

DUDE!!!!! I used to make waterblocks for computers ect. All I can say is this. You will not jump straight into it! I promise. You need to learn so much first! Copper is a challenge to machine. it gets gummy and as it cuts it has a tendency to stick to the cutter. End result is... SNAP!
You have a long road ahead of you, but I sure hope that you stick with it! You will also need a saw of sort, because you cannot start machining unless you cut off a piece of material that will suit your project.

[Fixittt]

To get started, just to get started....... you will be looking at 3 times the cost of the machine for tooling. Endmills, center drills, dial test indicator, vise, edge finder, if your doing it manually, then I highly recommend DRO`s (Digital readouts for the X and Y axis) parallels for the vise. Drill chuck, collets, do not try and tap copper with the machine. You need to hand tap it. You will need an air compressor, belt sander, descent drill press, deburing tools. fly cutters, coolant, broom, shop vac, man can I go on and on!!!!!!!

[Crevice Reamer]

A metal cutting bandsaw is handy:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93762

You might also want a rotary table. The X2 may not be rigid enough. You may need to go to the X3.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g0463

CR.

[LeeWay]

The X2 in manual mode is capable if you know how to use it and get the most from the machine. It will take time and money for tooling and replacement consumables for sure.
If you really want to be able to mill stuff to find out if you like it and save a little money doing it, I would suggest the X1. It is quite a bit smaller, but would let you learn more without the initial investment being so high. Should still be large enough to do your parts, albeit very slow going. Fancy stuff like spirals will be difficult at best on anything less than CNC. Doable, but again higher cost for rotary table and learning how to use it.
It will be an endeavor.

You may also look for machines locally on Craigs list.
Yesterday I was in the Pensacola HF store. They had this floor model marked down to $400. It wasn't in bad shape and looked to have everything there.
If I was just starting out with no machinery, I would have jumped on this one.
I started to get it anyway, just cause. However I have X2 parts all over the shop. The XY table is on my big drill press. The head casting and extension going on my new lathe. Thinking about using the motor and controller on my 8" drill press etc.

[Fixittt]

i machine wax now, for the jewelry trade, but I have deep seeded roots in the over clocking and water cooling community. Way back when. you know... Silver is more conductive then copper...... and I bet I could come up with some silver blocks that would rock!!!!

[ZipSnipe]

The most important thing you will need to learn is how to measure! You,ll need to know how to use and set up a test indicator, center finder, edge finder, calipers and micrometers(including depth). The water block you showed is definetly cnc'd. But you could do it manually its just a bit more set up and patience. LEARN FIRST how to tram your mill, how to square a piece of stock, the proper way to climb mill and conventional milling. Keep reading and learning!!!

[Regnar]

I forgot to mention this too. Videos on how to use these machines with different tools and setup. http://smartflix.com/store/author/46/Lex-Liberato

Also for some of these designs you might be better off making a mold or 12 and melting down the copper (which isnt hard) and do a poor. Less waste that is for sure. Could even go find copper pipe in buildings that they are tearing down for melting down.

[Villainstone]

Thanks for all the great support guys, you all have been very helpful. I am still a bit unsure about exactly what I need to buy to start of. I would like to ask for one more small favor. I would like to know if a few of you guys can put together a parts list for me? I would really REALLY appreciate links to the items so that it is easier for me to understand.

Ok guys so lets say that I had ONLY 1500.00 to spend on a machine and tools. You will get more tools later but for starters we will cap at 1500.00. Now you have this money and you want to do what I am looking to do, what would you buy first? The 1500.00 includes that machine and tools like I said before so what are the tools that you would initially buy just to get started what you are looking to accomplish.

Again thank you all very much, it is truly appreciated.