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IndustryArena Forum > Events, Product Announcements Etc > News Announcements > CHALLENGE TO ALL NC PROGRAMMING AND NESTING USERS. EXPOSE YOUR CURRENT PROVIDER
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    51

    CHALLENGE TO ALL NC PROGRAMMING AND NESTING USERS. EXPOSE YOUR CURRENT PROVIDER

    Of course, I have not recieved any response from ANY programming and nesting software provider in answer to my challenge to put their product up against ours.

    So, I am going to ask all of you users of such software to post your grievances against you current provider and to allow us to compare our product to theirs. Let us all know what problems you are having, the issues you are having with lack of capabilities, failure to manage types of machinery and processes, etc. with your current provider and compare it with our technology.


    Scott
    [email protected]

    Optimation®

    www.optinest.com/cd

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3498
    provide ur software free to all of the 'users of other softwares'..They will use it and will post the comparison

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1661
    Yes, why not, if your software is so good, why don't you show it to others instead of bashing around?
    If you want to gather information about your competitors, this is not the way to go. It doesn't matter if it's the greatest software - to me you have already gained a bad reputation.

    This thread has nothing to do with any kind of product announcement, so if you can't give a presentation of your newly released or updated software, I will delete it as spam.

    Regards,
    Sven

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    51
    This is a great Idea. How about sending me a free copy of yours and I will acess it myself as the first examination.
    never set a pace that you can't maintain
    Traveler

  5. #5
    Ok, im in, where is ur software to compare it ????

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    3
    Besides being a very strange post, your "Come to Jesus" comment is foolish. Blaspheme is not a wise thing and offensive to followers of Christ.

  7. #7
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    Jun 2004
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    6618
    The thing I want foremost a firstly out of software is the ability to download a trial version. All of my current software has this ability. Does that leave yours with a check mark in the negative column already?
    Lee

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    51

    To All

    Leeway,

    "The thing I want foremost a firstly out of software is the ability to download a trial version. All of my current software has this ability. Does that leave yours with a check mark in the negative column already?"

    Our software is fully customizable to each individual companys processes and equipement. Therefore, we do not issue "canned" trial software. If you would like to arrange for an online demonstration of our software and further, do a benchmark against your current method of producing parts, I would be glad to do so. And, no, I do not believe that this leaves ours with a check mark in the negative column.

    bindilab,

    "Besides being a very strange post, your "Come to Jesus" comment is foolish. Blaspheme is not a wise thing and offensive to followers of Christ."

    The phrase, "Come to Jesus Meeting", is a ruralist phrase that simply means to come to a meeting in which the truth will be revealed. I understand that it originated in religious camps in the 19th century. Anyway, I have removed it from my post. Blasphemy was never my intent.

    Khalid,

    We do not produce "canned" software. Our software is fully customizable to each individual companys processes and equipment, it is impossible to do that. I will provide online demonstrations and benchmarks against all other methods of producing parts. Free of charge of course.

    svenakela,

    I am simply trying to get to the truth of what others have to offer and to show how it compares to our product. It is agressive, I know.

    "Yes, why not, if your software is so good, why don't you show it to others instead of bashing around?"

    I will provide an online demonstration for anyone that wishes to see our software. And then, provide a benchmark for comparing material utilization. All free of charge. We don't have a plug and play software package. Ours is customized to each companys processes and equipment types.


    "If you want to gather information about your competitors, this is not the way to go."

    I am not trying to gather information about my competitors. I am trying to compare their capabilities to ours.

    "This thread has nothing to do with any kind of product announcement, so if you can't give a presentation of your newly released or updated software, I will delete it as spam."

    Please see the following link as was originally posted. It is a demonstration of the new technology, AxiomVE™, that is the foundation of our nesting engine. It is a new product announcement.

    Scott

    [email protected]

    www.optinest.com/cd

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    24
    I also believe in the demo/trial based software marketing approach. Most people won't have the time or motivation to be shown the capabilities of a new piece of software by a company rep, and possibly expose themselves to hype and sales pressure.

    You also state that your software is fully customisable by your company. This can be a big step backwards as the best selling packages allow the user to perform their own customisations according to their machines and needs.

    Reminds me of some business software where the initial program purchase is tiny compared to the cost of follow up support.

    All in all, if large companies like mastercam,solidedge etc can offer demos/trials of their software (which cost many 10's of thousands of dollars in some cases), why can't you?

    If your software is so innovative and priced reasonably, people will flock to buy it.

    cheers

    david

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618
    Feel free to show me a video of your software doing something incredibly simple. Import a DXF file. Correctly.
    This would do two things. Let me know that this is legitimate software that is user friendly and it would reveal the interface.

    As for nesting, Sheetcam does it fine for me. Just how much better than quick and easy does your software nest?
    I don't have to call for or pay for support. I don't want any hand holding once I have purchased the software. I want to be able to do what I want with the software from start to finish myself and my way.
    What would be good is a public forum where I could search for answers to trouble spots with the software rather than pay thousands a year on support for an apparently already expensive package. Is it not enough that you guys drive to the beach in your Hummer? Now you want the speed boat too?
    What would really impress me the most is if your software were under $1000 and that it worked as advertised, which is still kind of mysterious to me.

    Since you are in such a challenging mode, I challenge you to show just a quick and dirty video of your software importing a dxf and then making just one duplicate as a nest. Our time is valuable as well, so to save time, just post it here.




    PS Does anyone know of any other software worth it's weight that won't let you have a trial to manipulate yourself? I do own some right now that is this way. It's called Windows. I don't want to travel that road anymore than I have to.
    Lee

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    258
    I run pro engineer and their sales people spew the same garbage? I would not buy or even test software from a company that has your approach? I have had enough somke blown up my #$$ it over the years. People on this site are for the most part hobby guys and don't want something that "you" have to customize?

  12. #12

    Salvagnini S4 code

    Scott, please send me a single part program for a Salvagnini S4 (SDE or SDEX) with parametric program that will allow users to adjust the size of part based on the length and width. Fully generated from Optimation NO manual edits.

    Before you ask… Yes the software that I use can do this.

    If Optimation is unsuccessful please let everyone know…

    Independent CNC Programmer
    www.ctcn.net/~3kings/

    My mission is to share CNC programming innovations for a lifetime.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    51

    "If Optimation is unsuccessful please let everyone know…"

    Independent CNC Programmer,

    Optimation® recognizes that there are special cases where such programs as you described are required. I am sure that your solution is useful and well thought out and we do not wish to diminish it in any regard. Our experience with Parametric Part Programming is this: Some time ago Optimation® developed a Parametric Part Programming product that we used in special cases where all of the products of the manufacturer were complex but part of a family of parts. The product had the ability to do complex geometric and logical decisions. All of this was before the adoption of CAD systems with Parametric Design capabilities. When PRO-e and other CAD systems developed their design capability to include Parametric Designs, this greatly reduced the demand for our Parametric Part Programming product. We responded to the new technology by improving our ability to rapidly interface with CAD systems to create part programs that are one of a kind. We have a number of customers that generate parts that are designed to unique customer orders based upon a Parametric Design. Our approach also has the advantage of creating dynamic nests that greatly reduce the material waste and machine setup and run time. The result is that the parts are delivered from the CAD system, automatically programmed and nested in less time than one machine cycle. Our approach is focused on material efficiency, improved machine productivity and speed that allow a rapid response to a changing manufacturing environment. You are correct; we no longer provide Parametric Part Programming products. I am sure that your solution to the Parametric Design problem is very good. Thank you for allowing us to share our approach.

    Scott

    [email protected]

    www.optinest.com/cd

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    51

    cncwhiz, LeeWay, OzDragonflyer

    No, we do not produce trial cd's. I welcome you to view an online demonstration that will show our capabilities. You can terminate the demonstration at any time you choose.

    cncwhiz, Thank you for your input. My intent is to demonstrate the power our new nesting technology AxiomVE™. Please contact me for a free demonstration and benchmark against your current provider.

    LeeWay, I welcome you to submit a month's worth of parts produced, in dxf form, and we will do a benchmark against the nesting capability of your Sheetcam.

    Please visit our website and view the flash presentation that describes the advanced technology that drives our nesting capability.
    www.optinest.com
    www.optinest.com/cd

    Further, information from our website:

    "CAD drawings * along with pertinent pre-programmed inputs and manufacturing attributes * can be imported into Optimation® software manually or automatically. The CAD interface works with either the IGES, DXF or a number of custom CAD system interfaces that become part of the CAD system. A range of manufacturing attributes or pre-programmed inputs (PPIs) can be assigned to a part during the design stage of the manufacturing system.

    This information can include machine cycle type (cutting or marking process type), raw material, grain direction, work center destination (next downstream process for that part), revision level of the geometry, common cutting properties, text etching or geometric marking, part name or number, and more.

    Optimation's® CAD Interface allows this information to be imported automatically and stored within a holding file within the software's Part Library. The manufacturing data can be communicated by line font, color or layer within a CAD drawing. Using these methods to quickly identify and verify key attributes not only saves time, but also reduces the potential for error.

    Flexible enough to adapt to your current situation, Optimation's® CAD Interface accepts all CAD output in the standard IGES or DXF format. Or we can furnish a connection to many CAD software programs with proprietary outputs including Pro-Engineer, Unigraphics, Intergraph, CADAM and Catia.

    In addition, Optimation® software is also flexible enough to respond to your unique manufacturing demands.

    When operating in batch mode * without human intervention * it is critical that the manufacturing data be included with the CAD model for the software to read and act upon. The CAD interface can automatically communicate manufacturing attributes or pre-programmed inputs (PPIs) assigned to a part during the design stage to the manufacturing system.

    When operating in JIT or manual mode, the user can manually give the software this information, read it from the PPIs, or use a combination of both methods, one part at a time."

    Scott
    [email protected]

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    664
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimation View Post
    Independent CNC Programmer,
    .The product had the ability to do complex geometric and logical decisions. All of this was before the adoption of CAD systems with Parametric Design capabilities. ?

    When PRO-e and other CAD systems developed their design capability to include Parametric Designs, ?



    www.optinest.com/cd
    cad systems started off as parametric systems !

    PRO-e has always been Parametric ,started off Parametric and then added interactive tools!

    Are you new at this ?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    51

    holbieone - "Are you new at this?"

    PTC started in 1985 long after Optimation® began in 1974. You can verify PTC’s history at http://ptc.com/company/milestones.htm . Our experience goes back before CAD packages were commonly used in manufacturing. Computervision was the leader in the early years of CAD and predates PTC’s product Pro-e by more than a decade. Pro-e got its fame popularizing Parametric Design. We have a very long and rich history.

    I do not want to pick a fight with you or anyone else on this site. I have made some bold statements because Optimation® has created a new technology that deserves to be considered.

    We operate with Multi-Dimensional, Combinatorial Nesting that will handle your "real world" situations. We can deliver the right parts, when you want them, without creating a large inventory. That is combined with Vision Emulation that eliminates the error producing and time comsuming method of incremental rotation. You can not get that any where else. I ask you to consider it.

    Some may prefer to have the convenience of "off the rack", "plug and play" software. And, they may find that they will spend their time tweaking and experimenting to an end that will lead to the same poor results. In some production situations, "off the rack" is all that is really necessary. I understand that. That is your choice, of course. I am merely attempting to bring to light the fact that there is new and advanced technology on the market that will benefit small producers as well as large ones, and I wish to compare it to your current method of producing parts to reveal the vast improvements and benefits that are available to you. We are just trying to share our new innovations and complement what you are doing.

    Scott
    [email protected]
    www.optinest.com
    www.optinest.com/cd

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    51

    Greg King -Independent CNC Programmer

    I trust your logo statement, "My mission is to share CNC programming innovations for a lifetime."

    The innovations are illustrated in the link below.

    Scott
    www.optinest.com/cd

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    77

    Optimize this

    Optimation,
    Whilst I do believe that you might be trying to do all you can for the good of the CNC world it boils down to several factors. The fact that you can show me a software on a webcast dont mean very much. To use an analogy is akin to going to a car dealer and the sales man tells you here buy this car because is the best and to prove it ill even drive it for you LOL. Get where I'm going with this ???? Even when you claim the software can be fully cuztomized, does this mean that if you get a new machine now I got to go back to you to get new modules add it, would this cost anything? and if this is not the case and the software is all so powerfull then why not offer a free trial if the software is all so user friendly. To me a good cam software boils down to first easy of use and then flexibility. No sense in having all the bells and whistles in a program if you dont know how to use it or if it is that complicated. I dont mind anyone touting their software as long as they can deliver, thus far you've raised more question than answers. I do hope you find all the information being provided by your peers as valuable and adjust your marketing strategy accordingly. I know I know you are trying to speak truth to power but if thats the case let people decided on their own if the software is as good as you say.... After all You've got nothing to loose and everything to gain.

    That's my two cents anyhow. :withstupi

  19. #19

    Nest challenge

    I have given Optimation a list of parts to nest on a Trumpf 500. Let’s see how they do.

    Sorry I can’t share the files with everyone because of confidentiality.


    Independent CNC Programmer
    www.ctcn.net/~3kings/
    My mission is to share CNC programming innovations for a lifetime.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618
    I will give you the benefit of the doubt to some extent. CNC Zone however is made up of do it yourselfers and pro's alike. You aren't the first guy to come to the zone and try to promote something and when asked for a simple video, won't deliver.
    Yours is perhaps the better documented of such cases that I have seen, however the sales tactics of some software promoters are persistent to say the least. This is why I don't want to sign up for your demo.

    If you can do such a demo, do one up for a generic machine with some generic 3D widgits and post that here. I am sure we would get the idea.

    If your software is so advanced, you should charge a nice price for it. And drive nice cars too. That isn't really at issue here. (it is for most because most here are hobbiests with budgets and aren't producing parts under Govt contract)
    It is the fact that you can't or won't simply show an example of what you are promoting.
    It's the "No pics, didn't happen type issue.


    I might own 300 feet of property in Arizona overlooking the beautiful Gulf of Sioux and state it is the most beautiful beach in the world. You can find gold dubloons and raw emeralds and diamonds just by walking on this beach. Wouldn't you at least want to see a picture of it first before you bought it?
    Lee

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