[bruce_miranda]

I've just got myself a Super X1 from the UK. Because its a Red one I guess its the same one as the Arc Euro Trade model.

I bought this with the sole intention of making this a CNC model.

I am a private DIY guy on a budget but I also don't believe in false economy so want to absolutely get this right but with the least expense as possible.

1. First off what motors do I need for this mill.
I read conflicting information about needing the 3Nm (425oz-in) for this Mill but then when I read the http://www.xylotex.com/FAQ.htm they said to use the 1.85Nm (262oz-in) ones as you get better rapids. Because costwise there is not much difference between the two motors.

2. Next I want to be able to run this using software like Mach 3 etc. I know I need something to connect to the Parallel Port. But what. What's the difference between a Stepper Driver and a Stepper Controller. Or do I buy something like the xylotex which does both in one unit.

3. Can the Xylotex board only be used with Mach2 or can I use Mach3 on it too.

4. Anyone know which CNC kit is better or are there others available too?
http://www.kdntool.com/_sgg/m1m1_1.htm
http://www.cncfusion.com/micromill1.html

I'll create a website to guide others through this conversion because there are not too many UK people who have written about this.

[bucklnwr]

Hi Bruce

Have you spoken to ARC Eurotrade themselves about the comversion. They have demonstrated a conversion of their mills at previous ME exhibitions, so could well advise you. The carry a range of stepper motors, one of which would be suitable. I have used their steppers to power a Taig/Peatol milling machine quite satisfactorily. I expect they will be at the Midlands Model Engineering show in October, but it might be worthwhile contacting them to check before you leave home.

For the control board, I used the Compucut system, made in Coventry. I run Mach 2, only because I use an old laptop that is not capable (speed and memory wise) of running Mach 3.

Hope this is helpful.

Keith

[fragger6662000]

Hi,

I have converted a super x1 from arc euro trade. i origanally used an hobby cnc drive with there 200 oz motors. I found this weak and a little unrelyable on the z axis inparticular. i then upgraded to a motion control product drivers and they have been no problems at all. The driver that i am using is the 542 drivers. they are £32.50 each. but using the same 200oz motors on the x and y and a 426oz on the z.

currently i have them directly connected to the parallel port with no break out board but you can easily use a breakout board. the drivers them selves are opto issolated.

The x and y axis are using the standard screws but the z i have converted with a ball screw and have counter weighted the spindle.

I have upgraded the spindle to 8000rpm with a home built belt drive which offers 3 speeds. 8000rpm 4000rpm and the standard 2000rpm.

I run a conservative 600 mm/min rapid but i recond i could double that. I have just no cause to try and increase the rapid further. It is a small machine!

CNC wise i use mach 3 and sheetcam to generate tool paths.

Matt

[bruce_miranda]

OK two things happened today. I spoke with Arc Euro Trade and explained what I was doing. They said that 1.8Nm motors were absolutely fine to use on their machine. They did not have any preferred method but gave me a few pointers.

Second Xylotex are out for me because they wont ship to the UK due to RoHS restrictions of the Lead used in their solder. So I'll now have to find something locally.

How do you connect the power supplies directly to the parallel port without a Breakout board.

Also does anyone know if the couplers from CNCFusion are 8mm - 6.35mm or 8mm - 6mm?

[chalky]

You can get xylotex style drivers and breakout boards from either diycnc.co.uk or routout.com. They work out cheaper than importing xylotex stuff. The diycnc drivers etc are particularly good if you're on a budget because you can get everything in kit form and save yourself some money. I can also recommend the motion control products drivers ( in particular ) and steppers. I did a diy belt drive conversion and wished I'd done it as soon as I'd got the machine. Replace the crappy gibs with nicely machined brass ones and lap the ways - really reduces torque required to move the axes. You can do an awful lot with and x1 - it just takes time.

[Crevice Reamer]

Hi Bruce. Welcome to the Zone!

I would recommend the totally easy use of the $299 Gecko 540. It is a combination unkillable 4 axis drive and breakout board. All you would need to do is wire the power supply to it, plug in the parallel cable and connect the motor cables and current resistors. (It comes with motor cable DB9 connectors) There is a spare drive in the box for a future 4th Axis.

http://geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14469

For motors, I would use the Keling KL23H276-4Bs. They cost $39 each and are 270 oz.

For Power supply, Use the $60 Keling KL350-48.

http://kelinginc.net/

Both of these companies ship internationally.

CR.

[Crevice Reamer]

Keling also has a very nice E stop switch for $9.95, and (when he gets them back in stock) some interesting helical couplings for $16 each.

CR.

[bruce_miranda]

OK just ordered the CNC Fusion kit unless somebody strongly feels that the KDNtools kit is better. I have to admit that I actually like the KDNtools mountings but the CNC Fusion kit looks nice. Please tell me if I have made the right move or should I cancel my order with CNC Fusion.

[fragger6662000]

the cnc fusion kit seams ok. i design and built my motor mounts which are very easy to do.

As for the 1.8nm seams a little weak for the z axis. All my problems was with the z axis and was the reason that i upgraded my whole system. just to clarify the parrallel port only supplies signal not power. a sepperate power supply is required for the drivers.

[bruce_miranda]

If I were to choose a single power supply which would be the best

PS705 - 75V DC at 0A & 68V DC at 5A
PS487 - 48V DC at 0A & 45V DC at 7A
PS407 - 40V DC at 0A and 38V DC at 7A

Also would any of these be fine to run 3 x 1.8Nm or 2 x 1.8Nm and 1 x3Nm or would I definately need two power supplies in parallel.

Besides Motion Control where else can I get cheap Power Supply Units in the UK. I can build one myself too but am finding that more and more these days that building does not necessarily mean cheaper.

[Crevice Reamer]

What power supply depends on the motors you use, and how much voltage the drivers can handle.

Formula for best/Max power supply voltage is 32 times the square root of the motor inductance.

Formula for PS amperage is .67 times total motor amps.

The G540 is your best driver package.

CR.

[bruce_miranda]

So if I'm planning to use 3 of these http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....76-2808B-1.pdf what power supply do I need.

And if I'm planning to use 2 of the above and 1 of http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....&products_id=6
what would I need?

[Crevice Reamer]

So if I'm planning to use 3 of these http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....76-2808B-1.pdf what power supply do I need.

And if I'm planning to use 2 of the above and 1 of http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....&products_id=6
what would I need?

The two smaller motors can't use more than 40 volts. The other motor can use up to 57 volts. They are mismatched.

57 volts is too much for the two, and 40 volts will underpower the larger motor.

CR.

[Crevice Reamer]

Did you see this post?

Hi Bruce. Welcome to the Zone!

I would recommend the totally easy use of the $299 Gecko 540. It is a combination unkillable 4 axis drive and breakout board. All you would need to do is wire the power supply to it, plug in the parallel cable and connect the motor cables and current resistors. (It comes with motor cable DB9 connectors) There is a spare drive in the box for a future 4th Axis.

http://geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14469

For motors, I would use the Keling KL23H276-4Bs. They cost $39 each and are 270 oz.

For Power supply, Use the $60 Keling KL350-48.

http://kelinginc.net/

Both of these companies ship internationally.

CR.

[bruce_miranda]

OK just managed to buy 2 items off some late night ebay action. Hope I don't regret the impluse buys.

1. Got a Breakout board for less than half price of what Motion Control Sells theirs for.
2. Got a 40V 10A brand new power supply for less money including shipping from Canada than what Motion Control are selling theirs for. Its made by a company called KLH model KLH400W-40-A anyone heard of this.

So based on what "Crevice Reamer" says I have now almost made up the motor choice i.e. all 3 will be 1.85Nm motors from Motion Control http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....76-2808B-1.pdf

Can I definately not run atleast the Z axis using the 3Nm motor http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....&products_id=6

Or should I just see how I get on before deciding to upgrade the motor should I need it.

Finally for the Stepper Drivers I think I'm going to settle on the http://www.mycncuk.com/pdf/MSD542.pdf That way if the Z axis needs to be upgraded I can still use this Driver.

[Crevice Reamer]

Those 262 oz motors (Oz in = Nm/.007062) should be more than adequate for the X1, including the Z. Without ballscrews, you have very intensive gearing down, so plenty of power. Now if it was an X2, You might need the 425 oz motor for the Z.

CR.

[bruce_miranda]

OK looks like 262 oz motors it is then. The only reason for the doubt was because of one of the first posts here that said he had to upgrade his Z to using the 425 oz motors. But then again I've decided to go for the 542 controllers so lets hope that makes all the difference. The only reason I went for the 542 was because the lower models dont have over voltage protection and cannot be reset - they just burn (apparently).

[sansbury]

My super X1 uses 125oz motors on the X and Y with a HobbyCNC unipolar driver. They are just a tad weak at the edges and with a bipolar driver or slightly larger motor I'm sure they'd be fine. I get reliable movement up to 20ipm which is more than enough for anything with a cheap 24V supply. I did a cheapo conversion on the Z using a 125oz motor driving the quill only rather than the head. I did that since I already had the 125oz motors from a wood router and didn't want to spend more money. It's no good for plunging (more than .02" or so and it stalls) but gets the job done with anything other than peck-drilling.

Putting oversized motors on the X and Y gets you into digging a hole. Because of the 20:1 screws you need RPMs to move quickly and bigger motors are harder to spin faster. Next thing you know you're upgrading to bigger drivers, more voltage, etc, just to spin that big old motor around. You can spend $600-$800 on components and end up with a machine that doesn't do a thing more than my $300 conversion.

The Z axis does need a good deal more power if you drive the screw rather than the quill. There are some advantages to driving the quill as such but they're a bit arcane for most people. There's less need to move the Z quickly for most people so a bigger, slower motor here is a smaller issue.

Bear in mind that the Sieg KX1 uses ~185oz motors on the X and Y. That's with ballscrews which are both more efficient and steeper pitch (less advantage) which probably cancel each other out give or take. The Z uses a ~300oz motor. I recently got a set of Keling 425s for my X2 project and I think they are oversized for that. In hindsight I'd have gotten 270s for the X and Y. That said they will still move the table faster than it should go--cast iron dovetail tables really aren't meant to go 60ipm all day long.

[bruce_miranda]

How in the world did you manage a CNC conversion for $300. Once I'm done I'll post all my costs which I consider would be the absolute minimum. There were cheaper choices for the controllers but difference was about £30.

Costs so far including delivery
Super X1 :- £205.00
3 x Motors FL57STH76-2808B-1 and 3 x Drivers MSD542 :- £171.90
220V AC -40V DC 10A Power Supply :- £44.01
Breakout Board :- £10.00
CNC Fusion kit :- £135.10

Thats £566.01 before I've even started putting this all together.

Where could I have saved money?

[bruce_miranda]

Whats the best wires I can get to hook all this together. I read about using shielded wire etc but any recommendations from RS or Farnells etc?