[ynneb]

I am considering making up a pendant for Mach2/3

I am looking to use the ipac interface along with a custom made membrene keypad. I figure that with a bulk order of components the prices could be reduced substancially.

I was wondering who would be interested in buying a pendant at cost price along with me.
Also, if you have a good design idea, you could post it in this section and we all could vote on the best format to be made. Verbal suggestions would be good too. I guess our only design limitation would be our technical ability and our hip pocket.
Please also post any relivant links for such a project.

When you vote, please consider that the price you are prepared to pay may effect the number of features.

Thanks

Below are some sites that could supply our needs.

[High Seas]

ynneb - Benny, I vote for the less than 70 bucks - seems thats where I'll be when I finish mine up. The IPAC I bought was like 35, add a box and I cobbled a set of switches using old computer keyboards - (I was gonna hack an approach - but went IPAC cause of ease of pNp. Like the membrane idea. Radio Shack (in US - maybe Dick Smith downunder too) has a box and multi-button membrane keypad bundeled together and pretty inexpensive - maybe less than 15 bucks - so you could get there fairly inexpensively.

I like the approach (image) on the "Tren-Tec" site that advertizes on the 'zone. The sorta circular layout (on their software) helps show the z axis as I recall. That seems to be the biggest hurdle - how to 2D display the 3D layout - without getting too confusing. Best of Luck :cheers: Jim

[ynneb]

Jim thats the other approach I was thinking about. If you can get USB keyboards for about $20 AUS and just use the interface in that. If they are selling the keyboard for 20 bucks retail then surely the interface chip is 5 bucks. I was wondering if it was possibel to just buy the interface chip on its own.

Also, if you can get USB game pads for $15 bucks then surely that is 90% of the job almost done.
I would really love to incorperate 3 axis DRO into the hand controller but that is beyond my technical scope. Maybe the complete circuit board could be designed by one of our budding young electronics nerds on the Zone.

[ynneb]

Some more interesting reading.

How to hack a keyboard.
http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/keyhack2.html

An alternative to Ipac
http://www.groovygamegear.com/Page5.html

[High Seas]

Benny - Yer right Mate - Its the KeyWiz ver of the IPAC I got - -- oops!
And thats a good ref to the keyboard hax too - I'll look for mine tomorrow and edit into this post - cheers - Jim

Here's a blatent copy of the "TWINTEC" layout I mentioned previously. - The prices Benny look real good - outta have a market it seems!

[ynneb]

I have managed to source the main chip in the ipac setup at $2.45 each US for 100 units.
I am guessing that the circuit board will cost $5 bucks to make. If someone can make up the circuit board design I think we might be able to make this thing real cheap.

I am desperately hoping I will get help and this is not just a dumb Ynneb idea.

[turmite]

Benny I didn't do the poll but I would like to ask a couple of questions. Is this to be a kit you are going to gather the parts for, or are you going to build the pendent and offer it for sale as a working unit?

My thoughts: I personally don't have time to build a kit much less the frustration of testing and then doing it all over again! :drowning: I would much rather pay extra for a working model that was well testd than go through the hassle of having to do it myself. I gave $200 for one 7 years ago that didn't work right and never did....so I don't want to go down that road again. $100 would be nice but I could give blood and get the $200 if necessary! :banana:

Mike

ps I would also need a 20ft cable with mine!

[ESjaavik]

I need a pendant for EMC. Since Mach2 is based on EMC, I guess it would be very little if any difference.

The electronics can be made a number of different ways. Some was already mentioned. If using the old PS2 keyboard interface, the protocol is simple and well known, so a microcontroller can easily use that. USB is not that easy.

But the membrane keypads are very expensive in low volume. I know because I use them in a design I made at work. They have a very steep price curve that doesn't level out until you're ordering them in thousand(s). So if there is a cheap mass produced product that has a suitable keypad, that would be nice to know. To us it may be more worth dead than alive! So keep your eyes open, and keep on posting any links. Of course international availability is desired here, as we are all over the world, and freight cost often prohibits sending items like this.

The $5 cost price for a PCB is not too far off for a professional quality board in qty. >100 and a couple of weeks lead time, as the size is small. A pool board may come at that price, but you loose some quality. Again, what about freight costs? Bulk shipments to "distributors" in Aus, Asia, Africa, Eur, USA?

[kong]

I am interested Ben, nice one. Of course, it will come down to final cost, but I reckon $100 sounds ok, perhaps a little more as the ipac costs around $60 to get here in the UK. Of course, the PS2 ipac should be easier to use with Les' keygrabber program.

[ynneb]

Yes i have wonderered about supply it as a kit or a prebuilt.
I guess if it was in kit form, it could be sold at cost, but if I had to assemble them I would need to charge for that.

Kong, you mentioned that i ipac costs $60, I dont know if you read my previous post but I have managed to source the main ipac chip for about a dollar. The other components are sundry in terms of cost.

I have had a price estimate for the keypad and it is around 25 bucks. I am guessing the box might cost 10-20 bucks.

All up at this stage I recon $60 bucks Australian would cover the costs. Cheaper in US dollars.

My other thought is to get the whole lot made up in China. They have amazing ways of building things for litte cost.

Some mentioned freight costs. Surely it could be sent anywhere in the world for 10 bucks max. Guessing.

Jim, thats the idea, thanks for posting that picture. That is a good start to the design, we can edit/build from there.

[turmite]

Benny I want my button to be made from solid blacks (opals) !! Lighting Ridge would be nice!

Mike
ps still under $200 though

[kong]

I would like to see a couple of MPG'sincorporated in the design, or at least an easy way to add them in. I will use this predominantly for my lathe, so two axis jog wheels would be great. I saw you mention the chip, but as I know little about electronics, I did not comment

[turmite]

Have you decided to make them or provide the compontents for kits? Personally if you do the kits thing you really need to add something for your time in putting everything together....just don't..well I think you need to make something anyway!

Mike

[ynneb]

Kong, I know what you mean by MPGs (Rotary knobs that can control speed) But what is it an an acronym for. ( Miles per gallon? A video codec? )

I am having a hard time desciding what buttons we actually should have on it.
Could you please help me to descide.

Obviously all the buttons that Highseas suggested. Go to zeros for each axis and one for all. Should we have a set to zero set for all the axis ?

What else?

Should we have a forth axis control, just to make it a bit more universal?

EDIT: I am in the process of making a drawing. I guess it will need to be a verbally edited ongoing drawing depending on concensus.

[abasir]

Here are some possible keys.
Halt: Behave as emergency switch (stop everything)
Clr: Clear the keyboard buffer, i.e., stop pending command (if any)
F-/F+: Adjust Feedrate
SON/SOFF: Spindle On/Off
CON/COFF: Coolant On/Off
*->0/*=0: All Axis goto 0 (G0 command) and Set All Axis to Zero
X->0/X=0: X Axis goto 0 (G0 command) and Set X Axis to Zero
X-/X+: Press once to take 1 step, continue pressing to repeat taking steps

[ger21]

Kong, I know what you mean by MPGs (Rotary knobs that can control speed) But what is it an an acronym for. ( Miles per gallon? A video codec? )

I believe it's manual pulse generator

[turmite]

"Should we have a forth axis control, just to make it a bit more universal?"

I have a 4th axis and the ability to operate it with the pendent would be nice.

Mike

[kong]

Well, since the buttons will be programmable, would it not make more sense to produce a "bare pendant" and then people could create and share their own artwork? The reason I say this is because lathe and mill/router will require two seperate overlays, and then you have the 4th axis as mentioned. Some people will want coolant/spindle/dust controls, some won't etc. Just my 2 penneth!

[abasir]

I agree with Kong. With 'bare pendant' and programmable buttons, the pendant can also be used with other softwares such as TurboCNC. Just need to optimize the number of buttons and a generic layout applicable to lathe/mill tasks; so that the pendant is not as big as a normal keyboard

[High Seas]

I haven't finished my pendant project - but as I understand the IPAC/emulator setup - you basically get the option to identify what each pin/key does. That being the case, the nly thing to resolve is what butons and where. My thoughts:
1. Yes, 3 axis set up in a spaceally (sp?) significant manner
2. Yes, A MPG/rotary axis set upfor at least 1 rotary axis - more seems too many for the initial design concept
3. Yes, An E-Stop/Halt button
3a. Yes, a Program START button
4. Yes, an axis select, x, y, z that could link to a home key - sorta' like a CTRL + work out
5. Some means to do a "PAUSE" and single step thru the program
6. Nice to have, Program rewind with a reset/clear (MACH2 Users would know what I mean - I hope)
My thoughts at this moment - Cheers - Jim
NOTE: Just added a few photos to the Member's Gallery of my prototype using an IPAC and tacticle switches. Cleaner setup would be membrane keypad I think. :cheers: