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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Benchtop Machines > "Warco GH Univ" V "Chester Lux Mill"
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    114

    "Warco GH Univ" V "Chester Lux Mill"

    I'm still not decided over my machine guys..

    "if" i go the bench mill route i'm down to 2.

    Either the "Warco GH Universal" or the "Lux Mill" from Chester Machine Tools.

    They are similar price and spec.

    Does anyone have any preference and why?

    Many Thanks
    J.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    411
    Cant answer your question but interested in the answer as looking at the lower end Warco v Chester mills at the £700 level. Can't find much info on the backlash/endfloat/runout specs of either but read lots of issues about the Chester ones needing a lot of fettling to get them right (but then read the same about X2/X3 etc)

  3. #3
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    Oct 2008
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    114
    Yeah i've read loads about the x2/x3 machines needing literally a rebuild to get them running nice. I really do refuse to spend about a grand on something that needs that level of attention from new..

    I'm concerned you've read the same on the chester machine? I hadn't spotted any bad press on these......

    J.

  4. #4
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    Oct 2008
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    12
    I went to the Midlands Model Engineers Exhibition last weekend and looked at both the Lux and Warco GH Universal. From what I could tell they are exactly the same machine and just branded for Chester or Warco.
    I think the Lux machine is more expensive but it does come with some tooling. The quality of the machines are pretty good, but saying that I would expect them to take good quality ones to an exhibition.
    I am about to order the Warco GH Universal and convert it to CNC. I have quite a lot of learning to do before I start to order CNC kit but will start with pulling apart the GH and designing the conversion.
    Simon

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    1062
    Different stickers attached...that's the only difference.

    Afaik they take the ones to the shows from the showroom floor.

    X2/X3 seem too small for all round use.
    Keith

  6. #6
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    Oct 2008
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    I could of done with gong to that exhibition too...
    The main specs on paper i've noticed is that the warco has more X travel, 0.5hp more power and also has power down feed....

    But i'm only quoting off their documentation, not got any real evidence..

    Very interested in your project though...(cnc conversion..)

    What made you choose the warco for your project?

    J.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    120
    i have the lux,( RF45 ) and by the looks of things they are the same mill. the only difference i could see on the warco mill is the handle's on the X/Y look better, the lifting crank thing for the z is on the other side and its green.

    apart from the column on my one being well out of square, the RF45 is a very good mill. i have now cnc'ed 2/3 of it (working on the z) and so far happy with the results i'm now getting.

    don't think you will have any problems cncing this machine, got the X and Y done in a day.

  8. #8
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    Jul 2006
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    1062
    Hi blighty, how are you going to control the Z...move the entire head or just the spindle?

    Any details online of how you did the X&Y?
    Keith

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2580

    Hey blighty....

    So ya got a rf45 cnc'd!! PICS PLEASE!!!! I am in that long tunnel right now and could use some inspiration. Ya say you are happy with it, whattya making? I am very curious to see your setup and system parts you chose. Thanks and good luck...peace

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    120
    the controlling of the Z is done by a 1290oz stepper that moves the whole head, class5 ballscrew and a zero backlash preloaded nut. gas springs will be fitted at a latter date. X and Y stepper's 960oz using the same class5 etc....

    after some help from fellow forum members i have managed to get .005mm(ish) B/L on the y and .01 on the x. rapid has been up to 7500mmpm (295ipm) but i have slowed it down too 4500mmpm (177ipm). i did this because at 7500mmpm it would travel all of the y axes in 2 seconds and the X in 5. i thought this would be a bit to quick

    at the mo i have only cut the z motor mounting plate under cnc. thats the bit i was happy about. i was using an 8mm cutter (full face cut) at 1600rpm, 5mm deep, at 200mmpm (8ipm). it did do a 2mm deep cut on the same cutter at 1000mmpm (39ipm) but the finish was not to good and it scared the s**t out of me. i have cut other stuff just for setting up steppers, feed rates, acceleration etc.... happy to say no loss of steps, yet

    Pete

    i found converting the rf45 was a breeze. as i said before, putting the nut's screws, mounting the steppers and getting it all working was done in a day. fine tuning both the y and X axes took 2 weeks. i'll post some pic's tomorrow so yourself and JQ_Quint will know what your in for

  11. #11
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    Jul 2006
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    I'm like a kid before Christmas now I'd be happy with those speeds on the router I'm building (at a very slow pace)
    Keith

  12. #12
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    Oct 2006
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    hopefully the z will be done for Monday and the whole mill fully cnc'd for Wednesday.

  13. #13
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    Oct 2008
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    114

    Red face

    Blighty,

    Did you fix your column squareness issue on your lux? If so how?
    Why do you call it RF45, is your machine a chester machine tool machine?

    My application revolves around cutting cast iron, once yours is cnc complete would it tackle cast iron ok?

    p.s, would be great if you you-tube your finished project (after you have finished Z)...

    p.p.s, this forum is starting to create marital problems...he..he..


    Thanks
    JQ.

  14. #14
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    Jul 2006
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    RF45 refers to the Rong Fu 45 as these machines are clones of that one.
    Cast iron is easily cut with these machines....Very messy

    Regards the marital problems....Good luck
    Keith

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    120
    hi JQ_Quint

    not fixed the column yet. at the mo i have a 2.2mm of packing under the left side of the column. when the Z is done i'm taking it to a local engineering place to get it squared up.

    its a chester machine, but it didn't come from them.

    as to "the marital problems" i don't have that problem. yes... i may as well be married, but she's the one who sends me to my shed
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ps.jpg   psin.jpg   Xassy.jpg   Xmount.jpg  

    Xnut.jpg   Ymount.jpg   Ynut2.jpg   Ynut.jpg  

    Zmount.jpg  

  16. #16
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    Oct 2008
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    114

    head clearance "over looked"

    Blighty / Simon / Kipper

    You all own or are looking at either the warco or the lux machine, which is what i am looking at so hopefully you can answer the following:

    Its just dawned on me that I wish to fly cut with about a 140mm dia cutter (mini head skimming), what is the distance between head centre and face of z column? This could be a major flaw in my machine purchase.....

    Thanks
    J.

  17. #17
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    Oct 2008
    Posts
    12
    Oh no, don't get me started on Mini's.......I was a Mini nut 20 years ago....I have built and machined countless Mini heads......

    As for the Warco GH as a suitable machine to prepare Mini cylinder heads. The X axis is spec'd as 584mm, your 140mm fly cutter will take 70mm either end to clear the head leaving you with 445mm travel which is very close to a Mini head I think. You will easily get a fly cutter in a R8 collet and clear the head which is probably only 80 or 90mm high. The throat is 280mm.
    I am sure you may have other plans for the GH but if it is only for machining cylinder heads then £1400+tooling gets you a lot of machine shop time!
    Simon

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    386
    I have an RF45 with servos. It is surprisingly strong for a benchtop machine and I don't feel limited with the work I can do, even compared to a knee mill.

    I don't understand why builders are so fond of mounting direct drive steppers on long posts with the potential for bending moment and the motor "winding up" relative to the machine. Given the coarse pitch of ballscrews, a little roational inacuracy introduced there could lead to quite a bit of linear positioning error. Why not replace 4 posts with 2 thin rectangular blocks (tons of beam strength = no wind up), mounted top and bottom so as to keep swarf off the coupling and motor output bearing?
    Joe

  19. #19
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    Oct 2008
    Posts
    114
    Simon,

    Thanks for putting my mind at rest, I wish to develop my own heads so this will be its main duty plus anything else I wish to knock up. The cnc solution you are aiming for interests me in the sense that later down the line I would like to machine combustion chambers..so hence I may go down this route also..a bit later on..

    As far as your conversion goes have you estimated a total cost for your cnc convert?

    Thanks
    J.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1062
    Quote Originally Posted by scudzuki View Post
    I have an RF45 with servos. It is surprisingly strong for a benchtop machine and I don't feel limited with the work I can do, even compared to a knee mill.

    I don't understand why builders are so fond of mounting direct drive steppers on long posts with the potential for bending moment and the motor "winding up" relative to the machine. Given the coarse pitch of ballscrews, a little rotational inaccuracy introduced there could lead to quite a bit of linear positioning error. Why not replace 4 posts with 2 thin rectangular blocks (tons of beam strength = no wind up), mounted top and bottom so as to keep swarf off the coupling and motor output bearing?
    Joe
    I feel the same.....I think it's a case of "needs must" ie no alternative.
    I wanted the resolution to be as high as I could manage hence the 2.5mm pitch ballscrew reduction driven 2:1,,, 5mm pitch and direct drive is of no use to me.

    I skimmed the head on a Pug 4cyl diesel on mine...saved me £30
    Keith

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