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IndustryArena Forum > Machine Controllers Software and Solutions > Controller Cards > new drive for Panasonic Minas S series motors
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    369

    new drive for Panasonic Minas S series motors

    Hello,

    I got a Panasonic Minas S series motor from a friend, and have just gotten it running with my brushless drive and controller. This motor has the commutation signals (sometimes called Hall signals) turned into a serial bit stream on one differential pair, so I had to come up with a decoder for it. Once I had that figured out, I tried it with my brushless servo amp and it works VERY well, and is smoother than any other brushless motor I have tried so far. This particular motor is the Panasonic MUMS042A1A, but I suspect this decoder will work with all the motors from that series.
    I am trying to gauge the interest in bringing this out as a product. I think a bunch of these motors were sold on the surplus market about 2007 - I should have bought some then!

    Jon

  2. #2
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    Mar 2004
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    369
    I have now tested this scheme with the larger MUMS082A1A motor (800 W) and it also works very well. I definitely want to bring this out as a product, but would like to hear from people who have some of these motors.

    Jon

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    4553

    Question

    Jon,

    Would you happen to have wiring diagram for Panasonic AMK8200810LAK

    100 VOLT 200WATT .637 nM AC SERVO

    Jeff...

  4. #4
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    Mar 2004
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    369
    Quote Originally Posted by jalessi View Post
    Jon,

    Would you happen to have wiring diagram for Panasonic AMK8200810LAK

    100 VOLT 200WATT .637 nM AC SERVO

    Jeff...
    Is this a motor drive? I looked through all their servo motor listings and it seems all their motors start with the letter "M".

    Jon

  5. #5
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    Feb 2007
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    4553

    Smile

    Jon,

    I am guessing it is a OEM number.

    For sure it is AC servo motor, the data I posted is off the label.

    Will post more info as soon as its available.

    Thank You

    Jeff...

  6. #6
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    Mar 2004
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    369
    Quote Originally Posted by jalessi View Post
    Jon,

    I am guessing it is a OEM number.

    For sure it is AC servo motor, the data I posted is off the label.

    Will post more info as soon as its available.

    Thank You

    Jeff...
    OK, I saw somebody is selling these on eBay. They mention clean room compatible, so these may be specials for that market. I can tell the connectors are different than the Minas S series motors I have gotten working.

    If you already have some of these motors, you could send me one and I'll figure it out if at all possible. I'd guess it is very likely they use the same scheme of encoding the commutation signals as the Minas S motors.

    If you do find a page that describes the encoder connections, let me know.

    Jon

  7. #7
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    Feb 2007
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    4553

    Smile

    Jon,


    The encoder cable has sixteen wires plus a shield for a total of seventeen.

    The vendor said they had documentation however the encoder wiring colors do not match what they provided.

    Inside the servo the encoder has a eight pin connector labeled CN4 and a nine pin connector labeled CN3.

    See attached images.

    Thank You

    Jeff...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails P1.jpg   P2.jpg   P3.jpg   P4.jpg  

    P5.jpg  

  8. #8
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    Mar 2004
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    369
    Quote Originally Posted by jalessi View Post
    Jon,


    The encoder cable has sixteen wires plus a shield for a total of seventeen.

    The vendor said they had documentation however the encoder wiring colors do not match what they provided.


    Jeff...
    OK, your pictures and description tell me enough. 16 wires pretty much means it must be standard commutation (Hall) signals. 2 for power, 6 for encoder differential ABZ, 6 for commutation UVW, and that leaves two more. Some encoders have separate power for the encoder and commutation, some have them on the same wires and have a temp sensor in the motor.

    If you could send me one of them, I could figure it out in a couple days and then get the motor back to you.

    Jon

  9. #9
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    Feb 2007
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    Question

    Jon,

    Do you have a instant messenger or should I private message you?

    Jeff...

  10. #10
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    Mar 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalessi View Post
    Jon,

    Do you have a instant messenger or should I private message you?

    Jeff...
    email is: elson (at) pico-systems (dot) com

    or, a private message through CNCzone will work fine, too.

    Thanks,

    Jon

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    8

    Any progress on the 16-wire Panasonic encoder?

    Just wondering if y'all might have figured out the encoder wiring to that Panasonic servo. I too have managed to land one of these "way-off" Panasonics. This one is labeled as: AMKA400B10LAK Judging by the pictures that you put up they both have the same encoder. I can post pictures of this one if you need them. I've been up and down every Panasonic website that I can find and these motors aren't even hinted at...go figure. Any help would be surely appreciated! Thanks.

  12. #12
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    Mar 2004
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    369
    Quote Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
    Just wondering if y'all might have figured out the encoder wiring to that Panasonic servo. I too have managed to land one of these "way-off" Panasonics. This one is labeled as: AMKA400B10LAK Judging by the pictures that you put up they both have the same encoder. I can post pictures of this one if you need them. I've been up and down every Panasonic website that I can find and these motors aren't even hinted at...go figure. Any help would be surely appreciated! Thanks.
    Well, if this has the 15-pin rectangular white plastic connector, with 3x5 rows of pins, then I probably have a converter for it. The ABZ part of the encoder is totally standard, but the commutation signals are all encoder on one differential pair. I have a board that converts this to the industry-standard "Hall" signals. It can be used with my own servo drives, or with other industry-standard drives like Servo Dynamics, AMC, Copley Controls, etc. See
    http://pico-systems.com/oscrc4/catal...products_id=26
    for a pic and more info. I can also give you the pinout of the connector.

    Jon

  13. #13
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    Aug 2009
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    8

    Connector

    Jon,
    The drive-side connector of this motor is not the 3x5 connector. This is the 2x9 connector, 16 pins, 1 shield, 1 n/c. The pictures below look almost identical to my encoder.

    On the pinout you put up here, what is "Abn."? Is this an "absolute" encoder?

  14. #14
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    Aug 2009
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    8

    Oops

    Jon,
    I apologize for the last post. Apparently, drowsy posting is almost as bad as drunk posting.
    Referring to the "pinout", I was talking about jdgoguen's (post #9) at
    http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71929

    That was what I was referring to with the "Abn." question. Sorry for any confusion.

  15. #15
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    Mar 2004
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    369
    Quote Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
    Jon,
    I apologize for the last post. Apparently, drowsy posting is almost as bad as drunk posting.
    Referring to the "pinout", I was talking about jdgoguen's (post #9) at
    http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71929

    That was what I was referring to with the "Abn." question. Sorry for any confusion.
    Yes, if your connector and pinout agrees with the list from jdgoguen, then your encoder does provide the absolute signals for motor commutation. In that case, you could use my brushless drive, or other industry-compatible drives, without any interface or converter.

    Jon

  16. #16
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    Jul 2009
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    7

    Re: new drive for Panasonic Minas S series motors

    Jmelson
    Did you find any other info like motor identification encapsulated in Panasonic Minas communication code ? Mitsubishi have this motor identification in in the Melservo range with difficult to overcome ( I found the way through setting) but then sorted allow use motors and amplifiers across the range!
    Can you please share minas communication code with society?
    I will do my best to share any findings on this path too.

  17. #17
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    Mar 2004
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    369

    Re: new drive for Panasonic Minas S series motors

    The MUMS - series motors only has commutation info, nothing else. The Minas may be a later generation. The scheme on the MUMS motors
    was just a serial stream of bytes, exactly identical to computer serial communication, which had the true and then the complement
    of the 3 Hall signals in the first 6 bits of the 8-bit byte. VERY simple to understand.

    Jon

  18. #18
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    Jul 2009
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    7

    Re: new drive for Panasonic Minas S series motors

    Jon
    Thanks for answer I did look on stream and it does look like 1 start bit + 8 data bits + 1 stop bit per byte = 10 bits per byte? Indeed like serial RS232 one way! I wonder if there is the way to real time decoding it without micro microcontroller Im not strong on discrete logic designs :-) ?
    Thanks
    Ilia

  19. #19
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    Mar 2004
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    369

    Re: new drive for Panasonic Minas S series motors

    I don't remember the exact format, but 10 bits total sounds right. I make a converter board to do this. It generates the classic Hall
    signals. See Pico Systems : Panasonic Encoder Converter [PANASONIC] - $100.00 for more info.

    Jon

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    20

    Re: new drive for Panasonic Minas S series motors

    Jon, I seem to be in the reverse situation. I have three panasonic MUDS drives but no matching MUMS motors. I read the previous post with interest as I attempted to gather any info I could on
    this serial commutation data. I was planning on taking the motor I had which has hall outputs and feeding a uart type device to get the required signal. Right now I get an encoder error on the
    drive which I am assuming is the missing signal (RX). Just a hobbyist other wise it would be time just to buy some other drives.
    Don B

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