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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    The start of something new ...I Hope...

    Hi Group

    I’ve been visiting the cnc zone website for a few months. During that time I’ve been reading many of the threads. There are so many talented people that visit the site I have learned allot here. It’s a certainty that I will have many questions for the members of the site.
    So now,for better or worst the construction begins. I visited my favorite junk yard. I managed to find aluminum extrusions, Thomson block assemblies and the best find... A 36 X 80 I-beam base. eBay as usual seems to be place to find the expensive components. I found lead screw assemblies with the bearing blocks and purchased two sets. One complete set will be used for the Z axis. The other will be cannibalized for the bearing blocks which will be used on the X axis.
    Note: ¾ dia .2 lead In addition, I procured four thk linear sets with 4 bearing blocks. I plan to butt these end to end for the Y axis. For the bearing assemblies I turned two blocks on my old south-bend lathe.
    I’ve been working on the electronics for the project. I have one gecko 201 and an Automation Direct stepper. Since I am not an electronics expert to get started I purchased their 40 volt power supply. I haven’t had much success with the electronics part of this project. I did manage to get the stepper up and running. The problem is the motors spins at about 2 to 3 rps. I’ve played with the mach 2 tuning selection to no avail. Hope someone here can help me with this frustrating problem.
    So frustrated with the electronics, I started to mount my Thomson 1.25 dia linear motion rails to the bottom of my frame. This required 48 bolt holes to be drilled in the aluminum frame. I got one rail mounted and then setup a measuring system to check the other x rail for parallel. I mounted a dial-indicator attached to an extrusion and linked it to two Thomson bearing blocks. I adjusted the blocks as tight as possible to eliminate any clearances. After about 5 hours I managed to get the two x rails within .001. As a test I mounted a 13 x 36 piece of MDF to the four bearing blocks .. clamped four wood clamps to secure the MDF and pushed the new assembly to test for any binding. It seemed OK but I did push on one side and the MDF did twist a bit. I hope that the machine will not see any offset loads because it did move .010.
    In a few days I’ll receive another eBay purchase …more extrusions so I can finish the base. I do have the gantry ends roughed out. I think I`ll send them out to a machinist to square them up. I thought it might be a good idea to have the ends machined so I would have reliable references to mount the other components. Its getting late. I hope you`ll visit this thread again. I`m certain I`ll have endless questions.

    Best Wishes, Barry

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2849
    Do you have any other information on the stepper....I'll chase down the Gecko 201 drawing. Can you describe how you have it hooked up....it is stepping in one direction and not just stuttering??

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    Motor Info

    Hi ViperTX
    I have one gecko 201 and stepper with a 40 volt power supply.
    The motor I have is STP-MTR-34066.The motor and the power supply
    are from Automation Direct. Motor specs 5 volt, 2.8 amp 410 oz*in
    http://web3.automationdirect.com/sta...stepmotors.pdf
    I am using Mach2 but even with endless combinations with velocity
    etc. The stepper only seems to move 2 to 3 revs per second.
    I am using bob campbell`s breakout board. I tried the motor as XYZ
    on the breakout board..all axes run but very slowly.
    The wiring off the top of my head is step to step , direction
    to direction and a com to and from the breakout broad to the gecko.
    It seems to me the LED`s are working on the breakout. Someone mentioned
    in another group that my old 450megahertz PC maybe too slow. I haven`t
    tried using my 2.4 PC but will tomorrow.
    Note: Mach2 has sample code and sometimes the motor just makes noise no
    movement. I have run the stepper in manual mode with the joy stick and then
    it will move at about 2 to 3 rps.

    Thanks for the help..Barry

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    Need advice on ball screw sizing

    Hi all

    I need to purchase a rolled ball screw. The length
    is approximately 72 inches. Is a 5/8 diameter
    large enough to minimize sagging or whip of the screw.

    Regards Barry

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538
    Quote Originally Posted by bgolash
    Hi ViperTX
    I have one gecko 201 and stepper with a 40 volt power supply.
    The motor I have is STP-MTR-34066.The motor and the power supply
    are from Automation Direct. Motor specs 5 volt, 2.8 amp 410 oz*in
    http://web3.automationdirect.com/sta...stepmotors.pdf
    I am using Mach2 but even with endless combinations with velocity
    etc. The stepper only seems to move 2 to 3 revs per second.
    I am using bob campbell`s breakout board. I tried the motor as XYZ
    on the breakout board..all axes run but very slowly.
    The wiring off the top of my head is step to step , direction
    to direction and a com to and from the breakout broad to the gecko.
    It seems to me the LED`s are working on the breakout. Someone mentioned
    in another group that my old 450megahertz PC maybe too slow. I haven`t
    tried using my 2.4 PC but will tomorrow.
    Note: Mach2 has sample code and sometimes the motor just makes noise no
    movement. I have run the stepper in manual mode with the joy stick and then
    it will move at about 2 to 3 rps.

    Thanks for the help..Barry
    If it just makes noise and doesn't move, your acceleration may be set too high. Also, If your manually jogging the machine, it may not be able to go any faster. Try running some g-code and use the F word to set the speed you want.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    Success finally with the motor speed

    Hi All

    I believe all my problems are solved with the slow motor problem.
    It seems as soon as I tried the motor with Mach2 on my 2.4 megahertz
    PC everything seemed to work as I hoped it would. No luck with a old
    450.
    Regards Barry

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2849
    Barry, Check the wiring to the Gecko. The red motor wire should go to Phase A and the while mtr wire should go to Phase B. The green motr wire should go to Phase C and the black motor wire should go to Phase D.

    Also since you have a 40VDC motor supply you should have a resistor of about 2500 ohms (pick a 3.3 K or so resistor....don't remember what is between 2.2 K and 4.7K0 in series with the step and direction inputs. Check that Term 10 (+5VDC) is connected to a 5VDC power supply....I'm not familiar with the breakout board, but it will most likely have a 5 volt source. Let me know what happens.
    Paul

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    Thanks ViperTX

    I checked over all the wiring. It seems fine.
    Thanks for taking the time to help.


    Quote Originally Posted by ViperTX
    Barry, Check the wiring to the Gecko. The red motor wire should go to Phase A and the while mtr wire should go to Phase B. The green motr wire should go to Phase C and the black motor wire should go to Phase D.

    Also since you have a 40VDC motor supply you should have a resistor of about 2500 ohms (pick a 3.3 K or so resistor....don't remember what is between 2.2 K and 4.7K0 in series with the step and direction inputs. Check that Term 10 (+5VDC) is connected to a 5VDC power supply....I'm not familiar with the breakout board, but it will most likely have a 5 volt source. Let me know what happens.
    Paul

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    Machine Frame

    Hi Group

    The machine base is comprised of aluminum extrusions and welded I -beams. The current view of the frame is upside down.
    The Thomson 1.25 diameter rails are mounted underneath the frame. It seems this orientation to load is the worst from a design | load standpoint. The frame to a degree only allowed easy mounting with the current placement. The load of each block is 2000 pounds. The specs on the blocks indicate that when they are in an inverted orientation they must be de-rated by 50%. So I think I`ll be safe at 1000 pounds per block. The next step is to mount a Thomson 5/8 diameter ball screw with a length of 68 inches to the
    frame. The machining I hope to do myself. I`m a bit concerned because the screw is case-hardened to a Rockwell 57. I was thinking about annealing the ends with a mapp torch while the part was spinning in the lathe. I`m a bit concerned that it might be possible with the heat to distort the screw. I purchased a ball screw assembly on eBay just to use the bearing blocks for the x axis lead screw. At 30 dollars for the assembly that definitely saved a lot of time to fab something in-house.
    Once the machine has its x lead screw attached I`ll flip the machine over
    and start on the gantry.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CNCFrameSmall.jpg  

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    More parts for the new machine

    Hi Group

    Here are a few more of the parts. I plan to use the lead screw pictured here for the Z axis. I have another lead screw that`s a carbon copy of the first. The second one I`ll use the bearing blocks for the X axis. The two aluminum turnings are bearing housing I turned for the Y axis. The IKO rails will be butted end to end for the gantry Y axis. It looks like making the machine
    base was the easy part. Now for the detail work.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PartsReduced.jpg  

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    X axis and slow motor preformance

    Hi Group

    I machined the ball screw and did a mock up of the x axis.
    At the moment all the parts are secured by clamps. I tried
    the steppers with Mach 2 software and a Gecko 210 driver.
    The power supply is from Automation Direct as is the stepper.
    The stepper is the largest they sell 410 oz*in. The power supply
    is 32 volts.
    I have to admit, I thought I would be moving the x a bit faster.
    The current speed is 60 ipm. The ball screw is a Thomson
    5/8 diameter with a .2 lead. I did try to run the steppers faster
    but the motor stalled. I did check the alignment of the gantry
    and the ball screw and there was no bidding. I`m wondering
    if the motor is just sized too small.


    Best Wishes, Barry
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails X.bmp  

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538
    I don't have first hand experience, but I've heard that if you double your voltage you should roughly double your top speed. Maybe not what you wanted to hear. Is this the $99 motor they sell? #34066? There short description says it's 310oz-in, but the specs say 434oz-in. If you look at the torque curve chart on the website, you'll see that with 1/10 microstepping (What setting are you using?) this motor only has about 60oz-in of torque at 300rpm (60ipm). And at 375RPM, it only has about 25oz-in. It also has only just over 300oz-in holding torque, according to the chart. So it's looks like its really a 310 oz-in motor. They don't list the motors rated voltage (or the specs needed to determine it), so it's a bit hard to determine the Max voltage you could safely supply. You could measure the resistance of one of the coils, and the voltage rating should be 2.8a x resistance. More voltage should give you more speed, though. You might want to try something like this.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...858922482&rd=1

    Compare this Vexta motor's torque curve compared to yours.
    http://www.orientalmotor.co.jp/cgi-b...K&frameSize=85
    When wired bipolar parallel, there is quite a difference in useable torque for motors with similar ratings.

    Lastly, make sure you have absolutely no binding and everything moves freely.
    Can you turn the leadscrew easily with your fingers without the motor? How hard is it to move the X without the leadscrew attached?
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    Working on Y axis

    Hi Group

    I`m in the middle of a 3 axis cnc that I hope will mill aluminum.
    The height of the horizontal tube will be set at 5 inches above the work surface. I`m hoping that keeping the horizontal tube close to the work surface will minimize the cantilever load that would be present if the
    axis was higher over the surface. At the moment the vertical tubes are
    excessively long. The horizontal tube is a 4 x 4 with a 1/4 wall
    thickness. The vertical tube will have gussets set at the bottom of
    the tube to increase stiffness and a bottom plate that will bolt the
    tube to the bottom gantry section
    This design will allow me to add riser blocks under the plate in the
    event that additional gantry height is needed. I hope this solution
    will work. Any suggestions are appreciated.

    Regards Barry
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 5962Gantry1-thumb[1].jpg  

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    Finally something to report. Y axis status !

    Hi Group

    Progress on the Y axis has finally started taking shape. I used structural tube
    for the uprights that support the 4 x 4 tube. The uprights were welded and then sent out to a machinist to mill the top and bottom surfaces of the uprights. At a price of $285.00
    The 4 x 4 tube at a length of 54 inches was sent out to have 3 of the 4 tube surfaces banchard ground.This cost $250 .I thought this might help to have a flat surface to mount the iko preloaded rail assemblies. The ground faces did help to ease the installation of the rails.
    They look to be within .001 of parallel. I did have a detail that looked like
    a potential problem. I tried the rails by securing the four iko blocks to a 90 degree piece of plywood. It seemed that it took a great amount of pressure to move the blocks. I was concerned that the stepper motor would be unable to push the assembly. It seems that the ikos that I got on ebay had a #2 preload. This made them very stiff. The benefit I feel is this should make a very tight Y axis. I was still concerned the steppers might die when
    they tried to push the mass. So just this weekend I machined the ball screw and mounted the motor. I had a automation direct 310 oz*in motor. I tried the Y axis with the motor and was very surprised that the motor could function without problems. Just as an additional test I placed a 4 x 10 x 12 granite surface plate on top of the ikos and again the motor had no problems. The speed is approx 200 ipm.
    The 5/8 ball screw is looking to be a problem. It seems I have about three bent areas in the 50 inch length. At any speed the screw looks to be wiping. I guess I`ll have to straighten the screw but am not certain of the best method to remove the bent sections. I`d appreciate any advice
    on this issue.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 5962ikoS.jpg   YAxisBallScrewBack.jpg   TestYAxis.jpg  

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    Working on the Z axis

    Hi Group

    Just started prototyping the mounting bracket for the Z axis.
    I have the overall width of the ikos blocks as 8.75. I hope
    this will provide enough support for the movement without
    affecting accuracy. I am constructing this as a sub-assembly.
    The Z axis will be made on its own 1 x 9.75 x 18 aluminum
    jig plate. Once the Z axis is complete it will be bolted to the
    subassembly. I hope this will make it easy to align the axis
    vertically.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SubMountForZ.jpg   ZParts.jpg  

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    Z height will it be rigid

    Hi Group

    I `ve got the X and Y complete and am working on the
    Z. I`m not certain what I want to set as my Z height.
    I wanted a machine that could machine aluminum and steel
    I`m concerned about the Z plate moving down which is
    supported on 3/4 Blanchard ground aluminum plate. I know
    the longer I extend the axis the more potential vibration I
    may have. The Z axis is 8.5 inches from the table. I would
    like to add 1.5 high aluminum extrusions as a work surface or as a
    secondary choice 1.5 MDF. So with a 1.5 work surface added
    to the machine I`d have a working height of 7 inches. I`m wondering
    if this might still be too much of an extension to keep the axis
    rigid. I`m attempting to make the Z as rigid as possible. I have
    a sub-assembly that`s made from 5/8 aluminum plate. This has
    gussets for reinforcement. The Z axis will mount against this surface.
    The Z axis itself is made with a 1 thick piece of ground plate and
    THK 30 rails. The sliding blocks will be mounted to a piece of 3/4
    aluminum plate. If necessary I can add pieces of steel or alumium to
    the edges of the 3/4 plate for additional strength. I`m no expert in the
    strengths of materials so I have no idea as to what is the best solution.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ZAxisS.jpg  

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    847
    Wow, that is a beefy looking machine! Coming together very nicely.
    Perhaps I missed it, but what are you planning to use as a spindle?
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
    Check Out My Build-Log: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6452

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    What Spindle

    Hi JavaDog

    Good Question...I am uncertain as to what direction to go.
    I`ve seen a spindle from the littlemachine shop for 249.00.
    I have no idea if this would be a good investment.
    I might try and build one but I don`t have any drawings to
    use as reference material. I`d like the spindle to run from
    300 to 10,000 rpms. That would allow me to machine wood
    and metal. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by bgolash
    Hi JavaDog

    Good Question...I am uncertain as to what direction to go.
    I`ve seen a spindle from the littlemachine shop for 249.00.
    I have no idea if this would be a good investment.
    I might try and build one but I don`t have any drawings to
    use as reference material. I`d like the spindle to run from
    300 to 10,000 rpms. That would allow me to machine wood
    and metal. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
    To be honest, I was curious, but I am not too knowledgable on spindles (I'm kinda a noob). I know I am just using a Porter-Cable Variable-Speed Router on my machine, but I don't have the need to go as slow (300rpm?!) as you...
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
    Check Out My Build-Log: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6452

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    235

    The Z axis is almost done

    Hi Group

    The Z axis is nearing completion. I`ve had a difficult time
    deciding on the amount of travel for the axis. My guess
    is that 6 inches should be enough. If I have to I could increase
    the travel in the future. I`m trying to keep the axis as rigid
    as possible.
    Details to finish include adding another nook ballnut for anti-backlash
    and a faceplate of 3/4 thick aluminum.
    PS..what travel did you set for your machine? Was it enough travel
    for all your machining needs?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ZAxis&Motor.jpg  

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