[sansbury]

I've been thinking about quick-change tooling for my X2, and came across these guys who appear to be making a clone of the Tormach tooling system:

http://jlwcnc.myftp.org/jlwcnc/index...products_id=52

I was wondering if anyone has this and could report on how the quality is. I'd eventually like to build a toolchanger like Hoss's but not sure how I feel about making my own toolholders as I only have a 7x lathe.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I've been thinking about quick-change tooling for my X2, and came across these guys who appear to be making a clone of the Tormach tooling system:

http://jlwcnc.myftp.org/jlwcnc/index...products_id=52

I was wondering if anyone has this and could report on how the quality is. I'd eventually like to build a toolchanger like Hoss's but not sure how I feel about making my own toolholders as I only have a 7x lathe.

That is clearly a no-name Asian company (based on the broken English on the website) that is simply ripping-off Tormach. Perhaps no illegal, but certainly unethical. The website contains *zero* contact information - no address, no phone number, you can't even tell what country they operate from! You'd have to be crazy to do business with them.

Regards,
Ray L.

[sansbury]

That is clearly a no-name Asian company (based on the broken English on the website) that is simply ripping-off Tormach. Perhaps no illegal, but certainly unethical. The website contains *zero* contact information - no address, no phone number, you can't even tell what country they operate from! You'd have to be crazy to do business with them.

Thanks Ray but that was why I was asking here. Some people have had good luck buying from no-name places in China, others haven't. My question is how much worse this is/might be than making the stuff myself. At least the EM holders anyway--I'd have to buy the face mill arbor and drill chuck as I don't think I could make those.

As for the ethical-ness of it, has Tormach patented their design or claimed it was their unique innovation? Their website says it is "inspired by" tooling systems used by other manufacturers, so was this really their unique innovation? I do try to buy American-made when it's available and I can afford it, but I do believe Tormach's stuff is mostly Asian-made, though certainly better-backed.

Also, they take PayPal, and my experience is that PayPal is very good about reversing charges--actually too good, in my experience taking payments through it.

[Kalvin]

I'm headed over to China in the next few days, so I sent them an email on their web site asking where they are located and if they have a store front.

If I get a response, and they are close to my location I will make a point to go and visit them. Maybe even buy something. I'll keep you updated.

I go over a fair bit, but never really thought about looking for machining tools/supplies until I started looking for the KX3. Sieg even offered to show me around their factory when I emailed them. I ended up buying a X3 and started converting it. Next time I'm in Shanghai, I will take Seig up on their offer.

I'll be around Beijing this trip. Anyone know of a few good shops (machine tooling related) that I could visit?

Cheers, Kavlin

[Kalvin]

Damn, that was fast.

Got a reply from them already..... "we are in HK, thanks"

Now I have a reason to go to Hong Kong. Maybe this spring.

[sansbury]

How did you contact them? I sent a request through their website and never got a response. TBH I am leaning towards rolling my own TTS-style system a la Hoss anyway.

[Kalvin]

I sent a message off to them through their website, late last night. I'm guessing it would be day time for them when I sent it. I actually sent another after they replied to see if they had a dealer in Beijing.

"sorry that we don't have in Beijing, thanks

I'm from Canada. I will be travelling to Beijing. Do you have a store in Beijing?


regards, Kalvin"

Cheers, Kalvin

[uptoolateman]

I have some of the Tormach tool holders and I like the ER collet chuck they have but $92 is a little bit much for me right now, and I would like to get 4 more collet chucks in the near future. I think I am going to buy some of the Maritool http://www.maritool.com ER collet chucks like his C3/4-ER16-2MF or C3/4-ER20-2MF and make my own Tormach type shoulder washer that uses a setscrew to secure it onto the shaft of the Maritool collet chuck. They are only $50 and he seems to have a good rep on the practical machinist forums.

[apriorius]

Actually, I just received a full mill from this company, including the QC toolholder. It's not R8, but let me know if you have any questions I can help with. Bear in mind I'm new to CNC mills, but I have a decent mind and a digital camera, so maybe I can help.

Here's the thread:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=552745

EDIT: OK, I'm a dumbass. You can just stick the QC toolholder into a 3/4" R8 collet can't ya? I have 10 toolholders here and I'm sure I can spare one for a week or two. If you want to cover postage there and back, I'll ship one to you so you can check it out and see if it suits your needs.

As far as the company, their service has been exceptional for a Chinese company. I've done a bit of business there and while all has been generally positive, they have been the most responsive and on top of things. The rep I go through (Joseph) has excellent english, and went to school here in the US.

[apriorius]

Just tried it on my HF X2...works like a charm. Don't think you even need their special shortened R8 collet...worked fine in my normal ones:

[sansbury]

Thanks for the pics. Do you have an indicator that you could use to check the runout on one of the collet holders?

[apriorius]

Sure, I have an indicator but t be honest I've always just chucked stuff up in the vise and worked on it...within a couple thou is fine for me and this mill with straight R-8 collets holding the tooling has done that. So I've never checked the machine for runout, and don't really know how.

Should I just throw in an endmill really shallow and measure runout at the top near the spindle where there is no cutting surface?

[LeeWay]

That would give you a pretty good idea. You could use a dial indicator first on the r-8 seat on the spindle itself. Then insert the collet and try like you mentioned.
I use the Tormach tool holders and bought the flat faced collet, but don't always use it. The regular ones work fine. It is possible that the original tool holders did not have the recess like the new ones do. This recess allows the use of standard collets.
I love how well they work and how fast tool changes are with them. Even after you snap an end mill, it's easy to get going quickly again. Just use a height guage.

[uptoolateman]

Glad to see you got your machine, it Looks identical to the one I got from Novakon, same stand and colors except mine is R8 spindle and 120V. You'll have to let us know how the drawbar works out. The tooling looks pretty good from the pics I've seen on their site, I'm just nervous about ordering anything direct from china.

[apriorius]

OK, I'll check the runout when I get to thr shop tomorrow and let you guys know how it goes.

[apriorius]

crap...measured them today but the internet was down in my shop and I left the paper at home with the numbers. I'll post it up tomorrow.

[apriorius]

OK, finally got this info. My shop internet was down for several days, and I kept forgetting to bring my notes back home to post them. Finally got my shop internet back up, so here we go:

I measured the seat, the toolholder empty with the 3/4 R8 spindle, the runout on the 1/2" bit on the complete setup, and also the runout of the bit itself in a 1/2" R8 collet. Unfortunately because I switched collets from 3/4 to 1/2 there's an unaccounted for variable in measuring the endmill runout alone.

Pics of the setup are below.

Measurements:
R8 seat: .0084-.0092 ------> total .0008 runout
Toolholder base in 3/4 R8 collet: .011-.0124 ------> total .0014 runout
Complete assembly endmill in toolholder in R8 collet: .0086-.0124 ------> .0038 runout (ouch)
Same endmill in 1/2" R8 collet: .0102-.012 ------> total runout .0018

Seems like the combination really stacks up...if I had to guess, the total runout of .0038 can be brken down as:
.0008 seat
.01 endmill/R8 collet combination

Leaving .02 runout for the toolholder. Which is a lot. But than again, I have no idea if there were issues in how I did the measurement, etc. Seems like the proof would be in how it cuts...say chuck the whole thing up and run a channel in aluminum and measure the results.