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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    962
    6. Robotic assembly is being developed and tested
    7. The low cost kevlar string linear scale is on hold till the new laser is in house.
    Sorry if this sounds harsh but...

    News Flash ! Robotic assembly has already been perfected by people in the assembly field. If the guy is building his own automated production line when he should be completeing his CNC brain development, it aint never going to be done. He's re-enventing the wheel

    Leave linear scales to companies to have the equiptment to test and develop them to a few microns.
    Whats the point of a precision milling machine with a hobby linear scale only accurate to a few thou.
    Manufacturer of CNC routers and Viper Servo Drives
    www.LarkenCNC.com and www.Viperservo.com

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    105
    I didn't get a call yet. Hope you're not still sick...

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    117
    It's sad this product is getting almost zero online support anymore. Maybe this will change but it's been a while since I have seen any consistent support.

    With all the stuff I have purchased for my retrofit, Larken Viper drives, CNC4PC boards, and a Smooth stepper, all the owners of the products have given incredibly quick and useful support all the way through, which is most important to me. I post a question and I get a useful answer within a DAY at most!

    If I had purchased this controller and was trying to figure things out I would be straight up pissed for the lack of support. Sorry to be negative here guys, but I feel bad for the people who can't get their machines stable enough to be useful after spending $500.00 .

    It just takes 5 minutes for someone to chime in and give an update. Good support is CRITICAL for this type of product.

    Lets hope the software update solves the issues people are having, and the company gets someone who can help people with their setup questions.....soon.

    -DD

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    204
    How about I chime in here as well

    OK, first, I've been way too silent. Simply, that was a screw up. (chair) Deserve that I suppose. But answering the forums can take a tremendous amount of time, so decided to stick with the phone. I will make sure from now on to give at least one update every week on the forums/website.

    Next, there is a lot of hostility by people that don't seem to be directly involved. But that's OK, that's what a forum is about. Now, I would invite anyone that wants to discuss the issues to give me a call - (865) 622-7497. After 5pm EST or weekends work best. If you have an idea, opinion, critique, or suggestion, would love to hear it in person.

    Beyond the usual forum chatter (love the Area 51 comment, no gravity device yet ), what I don't see is some people understanding the point of the CNC Brain. Now, most of you get this and have been so very supportive.

    But for the others, let's list some things:
    1) Motion control has been around for a very long time (suggest you check out "Mechanical Engineers' Handbook - Instrumentation, Systems, Controls, and MEMS" ... or about a hundred other books on the topic), so this isn't a research project hoping for a new discovery.
    2) Computers have been around for ... well, a very long time. So, a processor isn't exactly new.
    3) ASICs and FPGAs have been around for some time as well (think fighter jets).

    To be explicit, the goal of the CNC Brain is to create an economical solution that can take any mix of parts and create a high-performance system ("ebay configuration"). This is not a trivial thing. To tune a motor isn't difficult, but to automatically tune any mixture of unknown motors and configurations ... now that is a challenge!

    This is why it has been OPENLY stated this is in Beta form. I believe that will soon become a production product, but it will depend on everyone else to make that decision. The ability to download new processors and electronics is a center piece of the Brain. Without it, wouldn't have even gone down this path.


    ***
    So, how about some updates.

    1) The scales are something we already had from several years ago working in robotics. The problem with them is they are still in a "lab state" and no time has been available to move them forward (though we're collecting hardware needed). Currently, it takes 10 attempts to make 1 ... not exactly ready for production.

    - as for why? Well, there isn't a great solution out there that will fit an axis durably for under $100, especially on the longer gantries. If anyone has one, PLEASE post a link!

    2) Robotics and CNC overlap in motion control (leaving out the inverse kinematics). The Brain started out somewhat backward from other controllers. It had to have open loop added because it started out a closed loop robotic controller.

    -as for why? Same reason as the Brain, but for robotics to give the rest of us a chance to compete (cheap labor). The robotic version shares the same code as the CNC Brain, just with a different number of axis without spindle support.

    3) The Brain update is being worked on, well, except for when writing this . Think the issues are about nailed down. Nothing new popping up. Several people have sent me their configurations and they are being run through with a fine comb.

    -The autotuner had a bug that kept it from recognizing an unstable system in some configurations. This was somewhat expected considering the scale of the problem.

    -As for hindsight, the manual tuner is being exposed (file under Duh!). This will enable us to talk through any more problems and get a fix in fast by providing an override.

    -Another hindsight, took a big bite for a minor version ... then if that wasn't dumb enough, available time to dedicate was cut. After this release, hope to get back to the 2-3 week release cycle.

    ***
    Mike, sorry I put you the "defender" situation. You've always been there and understand the end goal better than just about anyone. I've been too heads down trying to get everything/everyone in place to move everything forward. Owe you big time! And get feeling better!

    Pablo, you crack me up a usual! Hope to meet you in person one day.

    kmcwhq, nope, not bought out. Do this for the love of the device, not the money (obviously). It's a very cool little device.

    Every one, seriously, don't hesitate to call. Be glad to address the issues. Forums can be so impersonal.

    ***
    Oh, thought I would throw in some lessons learned so far in this little adventure:

    1) We've only sold a small number of these units (which was the goal ... I know, opposite of every other product release in history). Again the intent was to take the time to make the changes until it is THE solution. This approach has been a complete success in our book. Our user base is the best and the brightest!!!

    2) Appreciate the reverse engineers. Nice to watch the way you work. :wave:

    3) Spies. Yes, believe it or not there were a few companies spying on us. Some even introduced new "friends". A few eventually became real friends.

    4) If you plan on creating a high-tech product, expect to spend a **lot** of money on the hope that some day far in the future you'll break even. Expect the world to change somewhere around mid-stream. Just keep swimming.

    5) If you believe in what you are doing, its all worth it!

    s/Bruce

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    105
    Hello Bruce! :banana:

    Very good to hear from you!

    Thank you very much for the update, and hope the anti-gravity option along WITH the brain will be clicking along in the not-too-far-off future....

    :cheers:

    Dan k

    PS.....IS there an area 52??

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    117
    Excuse me while I put my foot in my mouth!

    Bruce, thanks for the update, I think it will make a lot of people here happy to know that the gears are turning on the CNC Brain.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3634
    Quote Originally Posted by brccrb View Post
    How about I chime in here as well

    Next, there is a lot of hostility by people that don't seem to be directly involved.


    Looks like the competition is getting nervous (HA!). :stickpoke


    .
    Free DXF - vectorink.com

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    461
    There are gears. Oh fudge, I think I may have bought the wrong thing.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    204
    Hello everyone!

    Quick update on the CNC Brain.

    1) New jog mechanism in place. Know this was a pain. New interface uses spin dials. This really makes jogging soooo much easier (especially with an el'cheapo touch screen).




    **sorry Mike, picture buttons were great, but dial beat em. If you have another idea to merge them, shout!

    2) The CNC Brain matrix (in the chip) has a new jog interface to provide direct jogging. This is also exposed through the SDK.

    This is support for internal and external jog dials (pendant).

    3) Running through the configurations everyone sent that was having problems. Hope to be through all the configurations this week.

    Hope everyone has a great weekend!

    s/Bruce

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3634
    Looks good Bruce.

    I have some vb.net 2003 code that I found on the net a few years back, looks similar in function, are those bitmaps on the dials?


    .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails KnobControl.JPG  
    Free DXF - vectorink.com

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    204
    **Switcher,

    The base dial is an image generated in Rhinocerous/Flamingo (simply a scaled picture box). The "dimple" is code generated along with the rotating text.

    The image is switched during click to a green LED ring underneath, which is also a rendered image.

    Didn't grab it from anywere, just built the base control, then inherited it into a percentageSpinner (for feedrate/spindle speed) and the jog control.

    s/Bruce

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    498
    Almost user here.

    Got an X2 conversion which I'm still trying to get mobile. I'm new to the whole CNC game so the learning curve is steep.

    Currently got some teething problems and instability, the goal for now is to get the thing moving so I can learn some G-code.
    Closed loop will come later.
    My X2 CNC Brain Build: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61345
    Gecko G250 wiring errors: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68960

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    29

    can I return the CNC brain?

    People in this forum convinced me the CNC Brain is great and almost ready.
    So I asked a friend to get one for me. I liked the idea of suporting this great develoment, thinking I could use it for my new machine I was building.
    This was not last week. This was not last month. This was more than half a year ago
    At that time the software release was 1.0.6.3 and the next version was soon to be released. Well.... half a year later .... no new software
    My machine is ready, but I can not use CNC Brain, because it is not ready.

    I really feel I want to return it. I'm so dissapointed!
    Can somebody convince me that it was a good thing to support CNC Brain?
    Can somebody tell me when I can really use it?

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    117
    Cncor,

    That sucks dude. I almost went for the brain when it first came out but held back at the last minute and bought a C23 BOB. If it makes you feel any better I'm still trying to get my machine up and running after 3 months of building, either way it's a long process.

    I do think that by now the Brain should work at least for basic functions, no excuses. Maybe the engineers are just not making enough money on it for it be worth working on full time..... I would just go buy a Smooth stepper and BOB and get that mill running at this point.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by cncor View Post
    People in this forum convinced me the CNC Brain is great and almost ready.
    So I asked a friend to get one for me. I liked the idea of suporting this great develoment, thinking I could use it for my new machine I was building.
    This was not last week. This was not last month. This was more than half a year ago
    At that time the software release was 1.0.6.3 and the next version was soon to be released. Well.... half a year later .... no new software
    My machine is ready, but I can not use CNC Brain, because it is not ready.

    I really feel I want to return it. I'm so dissapointed!
    Can somebody convince me that it was a good thing to support CNC Brain?
    Can somebody tell me when I can really use it?
    If you can't return it, are you interested in selling it?

    Jim
    No time to do it right, plenty of time to do it twice.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    29
    If you don´t want problems I recommended you to buy an LPT port for you computer. Smooth stepper have also some bugs and no backslash ... also waiting for a year for the good driver.


    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdiggler View Post
    Cncor,

    That sucks dude. I almost went for the brain when it first came out but held back at the last minute and bought a C23 BOB. If it makes you feel any better I'm still trying to get my machine up and running after 3 months of building, either way it's a long process.

    I do think that by now the Brain should work at least for basic functions, no excuses. Maybe the engineers are just not making enough money on it for it be worth working on full time..... I would just go buy a Smooth stepper and BOB and get that mill running at this point.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    210
    So where is this thing standing?
    As I posted long ago this is a very ambitious project.

    I'm guessing Bruce and his associates are getting a hard lesson in machine dynamics. (Ouch, been there, done that).

    Producing the user software interface is the easy part. Beating the physics can drive ya nuts.

    Using a parallel processor designed for machine vision is very interesting but has a few problems (but I've only got 29 years designing machine vision and motion controls so I'm hardly among the best in country). One has got to admire his "thinking outside the box".

    It's interesting to see how many jumped on board the "Holy Grail" of motion control via dual loop control. (chair)

    I have no doubt that Bruce is a very intelligent individual.
    I sincerely hope he can achieve this but I think his price point is a bit too low for a commercial product.
    Perhaps a little scaling back of the original concept would help.

    Bob
    You can always spot the pioneers -- They're the ones with the arrows in their backs.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    2103
    Hi Bob,

    I have been in email contact with Bruce this week. Lots of things are changing, and he is still working on the Brain, website etc to eventually make things happen quickly.

    I personally have made the committment to wait this thing out, and therefore it makes it a little easier for me. On the other hand, I already have a working machine so I can at least work. My issue is still the very large scales needed for the second loop.

    Mike
    No greater love can a man have than this, that he give his life for a friend.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    210
    Ok,
    I've held off long enough.

    The entire concept of this is system is not based on reality.
    I understand the seduction of the concept but I've got 30 years experience in machine vision parallel processors and motion control and I've long since learned this is not gonna work.

    You might get some steppers to run good enough for for some "hobby" applications.
    You can kiss servos goodbye for any serious industrial app as the the solution is not even close to linear in response.(not to mention the fact that that it does not have a "unique" solution across different platforms).
    Applying the techniques used here is like putting a wood screw in with a hammer.

    Fancy "front ends" mean nothing without a serious understating of motion control to back them up.

    Don't like my comments?
    well ( They say I'm cocky, and I say what, It ain't bragging ** if you back it up) "Bob Richie"

    Let's see Bruce pull this off, he's the one who said his product was ready for everyone to invest in.
    I've got a huge problem with anyone who takes people's money without a working system.

    Bob
    You can always spot the pioneers -- They're the ones with the arrows in their backs.

  20. #40
    Wow Bob, it's enthusiasm like yours that truly inspires innovative people.

    Mariss

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