[mattfurches]

Tool stuck in spindle while doing a tool change and broke off a small mill in the umbrella. Was the first time it had stuck in forever. Now its sticking 15 times a day. Could a crash like that cause a problem in spindle? Seems like tools are shooting out now with more force than before.

[Machineit]

Tool stuck in spindle while doing a tool change and broke off a small mill in the umbrella. Was the first time it had stuck in forever. Now its sticking 15 times a day. Could a crash like that cause a problem in spindle? Seems like tools are shooting out now with more force than before.

broke off a small mill in the umbrella????? Try that again please, I don't understand.

Have you cleaned and checked everything?

Thanks---Mike

[mattfurches]

Tool didnt release in the umbrella and crashed into another tool breaking off the end mill. Im not sure what to check. New to all this.

[Machineit]

Tool didnt release in the umbrella and crashed into another tool breaking off the end mill. Im not sure what to check. New to all this.

Sorry, but how could it hit another tool? Perhaps you should start by telling us the year and model of the machine, etc.

[haastec]

Also, a step by step of events for that particular tool change cycle.

More details are needed.

[mattfurches]

machine went to change tool. It dropped the tool into the umbrella but it didnt release in time so the tool was partially in the spindle when it went to move to the next tool. the collet was cocked over in the spindle as it moved sideways and the end mill that was in the collet was broken off in the tool tray. Now I am having lots of problems with tools getting stuck in the spindle. Seems to be no pattern to which ones stick and which dont. I changed out all the thru coolant tops for solid ones so air pressure would be stronger to push them out(?) If that makes any sense. I had noticed that alot of air was passing thru some tools and i thought maybe it would help. Now when it does stick you have to tap it with a soft mallet and the tool POPS out with alot of force. Is there something in the release mechanism that could have been damaged when the tool hit the tool tray? Anybody know where I can get a schematic for the spindle so i can try to fix it? Its a 2000 VF-2 30 HP. Im new to the cnc side of machining so I apologize if Im not making alot of sense.

[haastec]

First thing to do is thoroughly clean all the tool tapers and spindle taper last.

Clean with WD-40 or similar that will cut through any grime. Typically what happens is the tools get coated with coolant or coolant mist. The tapers will develop a film on them that makes them sticky. You may not feel it with you hand but when the tool goes in the spindle it almost acts like contact cement.

Do this and see how it goes.

[mattfurches]

I really appreciate the response but I have cleaned them both well. I cant tell that it made any difference whatsoever so I am thinking that its a mechanical problem.

[Geof]

..... the collet was cocked over in the spindle as it moved sideways....

I have a VF0 that did something like this once and it damaged the inside of the spindle slightly.

As suggested, clean thoroughly inside the spindle: I use alcohol which will remove coolant residue and mineral spirits which will remove oil and grease residues.

Get a tool holder in good condition with a good clean taper and with machinists blue on the taper, put it in the spindle by hand then carefully remove it and see if any high spots inside the taper have rubbed the blue off.

You could also get an empty setscrew type holder and check it for runout in the spindle with a DTI.

If you do not find high spots and if there is no runout; less than 0.0001" TIR more or less qualifies as no runout, then the spindle taper is probably okay. If this is the case a good cleaning of everything followed by lubrication with light mineral oil should solve your problems.

If your problems persist you need to check the air pressure on the machine which should be set at 85 to 90 psi on the regulator at the back. Also if you have been running the machine on an air supply without a dryer or filters you may have contaminated the solenoid valve operating the tool release so it opens slowly which means the tool releases late.

If you did find some spindle runout you need to have a look and feel inside the spindle to see if you can identify any damage. On my machine there was a spot inside the taper that felt different.

My spindle runout was more than 0.002" TIR which is bad. Rather than go to the expense of getting the spindle reground I machine an aluminum taper and gently lapped the spindle with very fine grinding paste until I got the runout down to a bit less than 0.0002" which is good enough for my purposes.

[mattfurches]

cleaned the solenoid release solenoid and it did seem to release a little better however when the tool let go this time it only let go about 1/2 an inch and the pull stud grabbed and stopped it from coming out.?

[Geof]

It does sound like there is a problem at the top with the tool release cylinder not getting enough stroke, or something broken.

One possibility is that the pre-charge has not been working correctly. This is a low pressure air supply that moves the tool release piston down to take up the clearance between the push rod and the top of the drawbar, before the main air pressure turns on. The tool release will work without the precharge but over time the push rod and drawbar end can get damaged due to them banging together under full pressure.

[mattfurches]

can you tell me anything about where to start looking for the pre charge? I assume it is supplied by a solenoid. How do i know if it is pre charging correctly? if not what do i do then? If it has worn the draw bar or another part does it have an adjustment ? Thanks so much for your help.

[Machineit]

machine went to change tool. It dropped the tool into the umbrella but it didnt release in time so the tool was partially in the spindle when it went to move to the next tool. the collet was cocked over in the spindle as it moved sideways and the end mill that was in the collet was broken off in the tool tray. Now I am having lots of problems with tools getting stuck in the spindle. Seems to be no pattern to which ones stick and which dont. I changed out all the thru coolant tops for solid ones so air pressure would be stronger to push them out(?) If that makes any sense. I had noticed that alot of air was passing thru some tools and i thought maybe it would help. Now when it does stick you have to tap it with a soft mallet and the tool POPS out with alot of force. Is there something in the release mechanism that could have been damaged when the tool hit the tool tray? Anybody know where I can get a schematic for the spindle so i can try to fix it? Its a 2000 VF-2 30 HP. Im new to the cnc side of machining so I apologize if Im not making alot of sense.

First, the tools are not dropped into the carrousel. The spindle is held at a specified height, then the carrousel moves in and the tool is placed into the empty carrousel slot. Then the tool is released and the spindle moves up to clear room for the carousel to turn. If the tool did not release, the whole process should alarm out and stop and you will need to do a "tool change recovery." If this did not happen you have issues there. I might guess that the switch that says that the spindle is at the tool change high position could stick and the carousel could try to turn before the spindle was full up. Call a tech.

I have never seen a tool release only half way and be only half way out of the spindle. If the carousel started to turn with the tool still in the spindle, you have a problem. Check to see that when the carrousel moves in that the spindle is at the correct height and the tool goes into the slot. If the spindle is too high and misses the holding prongs, that could cause the problem you are having, but that does doesn't sound like what you are having.

The spindle has switches at the top of tool change travel and at the bottom of same. If either one is not reached, the process will alarm out. Only way it can be different is if a switch is sticking or bad.

The carrousel has switches at the in and the out position. I have seen the "carrousel in" switch stick open and the spindle just release the tool right on the table before the carrousel even started in.

The through holes for coolant do not affect the tool change pressure. it is mechanical and the retention knob is depressed by a steel shaft. The air that comes out is used to keep chips and coolant out of the spindle during changes.

First: Take all of the tools out of the machine. Clean and check the spindle for damage. It is very difficult to damage the spindle as it is hardened, but not impossible. I clean my spindle bore by running the spindle at 10 rpm and use a small cloth with, as previously mentioned WD-40, and move it up and down with my finger. Watch you knuckles on the retention lugs and don't let the rag bunch up and get caught on them either. Once it is clean, use your index finger to feel the bore as the spindle turns slowly and feel for any bumps/nicks, there should be none. If the spindle bore is okay, good. If not you will need someone to repair it by replacement or surfacing it.

Second: Once or if the bore is okay, then you need to check tool changer is functioning correctly. Do a full tool change without any tools in the spindle or the carrousel. The spindle should be at the correct height when the carrousel comes in, the spindle should be up and stopped before the carousel starts to turn and the carousel should not head out until it has loaded the next tool in the spindle. If all appears to be right, then proceed to put an empty tool holder in the spindle. Place something to catch the tool holder under the spindle. A good box with rages in it is fine. Put the tool into the spindle. Push the tool "release" button and see if the tool comes out properly. Not a tool change, a tool release! "NEVER PUT YOUR HAND ON A TOOL AND PRESS TOOL CHANGE." Press tool release!!!!! If the tool goes in and comes out properly you are part way home.

Third: With an empty tool in the spindle and the box in place, try a full tool change. Again, the spindle should be in the tool change position before the carrousel comes in. The carrousel should then move into the spindle. Listen to make sure that the tool is not released until the carrousel is in by listening for the out coming out of the spindle before the carrousel gets in. The tool should then release, listen for the air, and the spindle should go up to the tool change position. With the spindle still up, the carousel should go the the next tool position and then the spindle should come down. There should be a slight pause as the tool is clamped in spindle. Again, do this with only a tool in the beginning slot.

Fourth: If that worked fine then put a tool in the receiving slot too and repeat the process to see if the tool is released properly and the next tool is clamped properly. During this change, visually look at the prongs and insure that the tool slots hit the prong at the correct height. If the tool is too high or too low then this will have to be corrected. See next.

Five: If the tool height is off, it needs to be corrected. First check that the carousel has not been bent or damaged. From tool position #1, do a change to position 10 without any tools. Just watch if the carrousel is bent as it turns. Go from 10 to 20 and check the rest. If not straight, it needs to be repaired. If the carousal appears okay, then you may need to adjust the tool change height in the parameters of the machine. I would call a tech from Haas to have this done for you. It is a parameter change and is not the easiest thing for many. Especially tool change height.

If all of this works fine at this point you are good for a longer test. So put multiple tools in and do tool changes for all of the slots. Not necessary to put 20 tools in, but shift them around and test the process. Keep the tool holders empty and the box in place!

If all looks good at this point, try going back to work. If you still have problems, then I would expect that you have issues with the switches and or relays involved in the tool change process. If so, I would again call for a technician. If you are unfamiliar with the machine, it would be dangerous for you too try to check them all out.

I hope that this helps.

Mike

[mattfurches]

Let me adjust my first statement about the first crash. I now believe that when the tool released into the tray at only dropped a bit and then was caught on the pull stud as i have seen that happen several times lately. What might cause the tool to release,drop 1/2 inch then catch on the stud?

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[behindpropeller]

Let me adjust my first statement about the first crash. I now believe that when the tool released into the tray at only dropped a bit and then was caught on the pull stud as i have seen that happen several times lately. What might cause the tool to release,drop 1/2 inch then catch on the stud?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

These guys are trying to help you but you won't tell any details about your machine and how old it is.

[mattfurches]

If you read my earlier posts i said it was a 2000 vf2.

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[D3Spindles]

There could be several reason for the tool not releasing.... one could be not enough pressure to actuate the drawbar... check your lines and make sure you have enough pressure.

D3Spindles

[D3Spindles]

The only issue that I have with cleaning the spindle taper is that if it has airpurge, you need to keep it running. if you do not, then you could contaminate the bearing with coolant. After cleaning and still no results, most likely you have a mechanical issue. I would give Dynomax Inc. a call... they are a top notch spindle rebuilder.

[Machineit]

The only issue that I have with cleaning the spindle taper is that if it has airpurge, you need to keep it running. if you do not, then you could contaminate the bearing with coolant. After cleaning and still no results, most likely you have a mechanical issue. I would give Dynomax Inc. a call... they are a top notch spindle rebuilder.

If you check, you will see that I am running the spindle at 10 rpm, that is turning and air coming out.

[D3Spindles]

If you check, you will see that I am running the spindle at 10 rpm, that is turning and air coming out.

Can you take a picture of the nose and send it to Me? send it to [email protected]. This way we can have a better idea of what type of drawbar it might have.