[jimalb]

I have a large safe I would like to get open so I can use or rent it out. I bought this building about 15 yrs ago from city auction (was an old marine reserve building) and nobody knows the combination to the vault door.
It has a large door (about 7' by 4') and a combination with a lever to open the door. The door has the name MOSLER and a serial number on it. I have been thinking about cutting through the wall to get in but, I don't really want to destroy the integraty of the walls and I started thinking about using a stepper and let it run through the possable combinations until the door can be opened. If I set up a stepper and something to pull the lever and just let it run untill the door opens that would be great, It would not matter if it took a year to open the door.

The problem is I have no idea how the combination type doors work. Everyone I have talked to that was stationed at this reserve seems to think it was a three number combination door.
The dial has Numbers 0 - 99 numbered every 10. When I turn the dial you can feel two dentents, one on about 0 and one on about 10, (I was told this is something to do with adding security to the combination).
If someone has some ideas this would be great, How do you do combinations as in:
cw 2 turns - stop at 1st number - ccw past 1st number -stop at 2nd number - cw - stop at 3rd number or somthing like this?
Thanks for any ideas.
Jimmy

[jpgdesigns]

Why not contact Mosler with the serial number may have to provide some, proof of ownership... they may be able to get you more info on the lock. ie 3number or 4 number or 5 number etc...

once you know that the rest is a little math and some time to let it run.

[ger21]

A quick Google search says Mosler shut it's doors in 2001, after about 135 years in business.

[Switcher]

Wikipedia says " Diebold subsequently announced programs to support former Mosler customers" (I bet that would cost a lot of $$)

**************

Start you a new web page, anyone that can crack the combo. gets 50% of whatever is in the safe.

.

[Switcher]

This Google search should find anything (MOSLER) related on the Diebold site.

Might help?


.

[Eurisko]

Jimmy,

This link describes a 4 number Mosler combination:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Locksmith...ombination.htm

Lets assume you have 100 possibilities for the 1st number, 99 for the second, 98 for the third, and 97 for the fourth.

100*99*98*97 = 94,109,400 possible combinations.

Let's do it at human speed, say 4 seconds per combination.
That gives us 376,437,600 seconds.
Or 11.9 years.

[HuFlungDung]

Might be fun to drill a hole through the front and insert a small video cam to see what you can see of the works.

[Geof]

Post an employment opportunity notice in your local prison.

[Eurisko]

Seriously,

There would be no demand for safecrackers if they weren't able to crack safes.

If this were a Hollywood movie, Tom Cruise would open his attache case and remove...

A little rubber suction cup ( for audio amplification )
A servo motor. ( This is big-budget Hollywood )
A notebook computer.

After attaching these ( in seconds ), Cruise runs the notebook program.
The servo silently turns.
The notebook displays a graph of the amplified audio, the lock tumblers falling into place. At each audio peak, the servo reverses direction. With a final, inaudible click, the display shows a graphic of an open safe.

How hard can it be if Tom Cruise can do it ???

[martinw]

Dear Jimmy,

Do not take Geof's advice. The bosses who subcontract the craftsmen with thermic lances can be very bad for your health.

Eurisko calculated four seconds for each combination and a twelve year marathon if done manually. My guess is that it would be possible to "stepper" the combinations at about 4 Hz. Obviously, there may be mechanical time lags in the lock mechanism itself that makes this unrealistic The other problem is that you need to have some kind of indicator as to whether the combination is correct . Trying the big handle on the door is not practical at that kind of speed. Any suggestions?

Best wishes,

Martin

[BMG]

My company had a large walk in vault that was locked for a number of years - same deal - everyone forgot the combo - They contacted a vault installation company and that company put them in touch with a "Cracker". They opened it in less than an hour. Nothing of consequence was found in the safe.

[jalessi]

Jimmy,

I have a friend in Chicago that opens safes, where are you located?

Jeff...

[martinw]

Jimmy,

I have a friend in Chicago that opens safes, where are you located?

Jeff...

Dear Jeff,

Great post.

In these troubled financial times, we could all do with friends like yours.

Best wishes,

Martin

[jimalb]

I allready know the vault is empty(darn it), It was the weapons vault for the marine Reserve. It is built as an integrated part of the building, the walls are steal reinforced concreat filled cinderblock and solid concrete cieling best I can tell, the room is about 15' x 30' and there is a vent hole in the wall next to the floor that I was just able to put a telescoptng mirror in and look around.
There is a cage door on the inside of the vault door that will not let me see the inside of the vault door to see if there is a safty latch inside to open the door with. I have tried the standered shipping combnation of 25-50-25 and it did not work for me (the reserve told me they always reset the combination back to the standered combo when they leave a place), but no luck here.

Someone asked - I am in the Texas panhandle

[jdr]

I own a jewelry supply business and once bought 12 TL-30 safes(warehouse had hundreds of safes stored) from a Zale's warehouse in Houston, TX. The safes were rounded up from their retail stores around the Southwest that closed. Many were Mosler. Zales had a device that attached to the safe to figure out the combination. Warehouse guy said three number combinations took about 1-2 days and 4 number combinations from 1 to 2 weeks. They would write the combo with a grease pencil on the safe and move on to the next safe. The device took advantage of the fact that combo numbers would open even if you dialed a 12 instead of a 11 when spinning the dial. Also, the combos are set in a range/group of numbers(ie you don't get to pick 10-10-10 as your combo).
The 0 and 10 pause is used when you finish putting in your combo as it opens.
Find a safe company with this device and hire them. Also, don't let a locksmith drill your safe to open. We had a local locksmith that would open safes using the touch/listen method on some of the safes(just like the movies). I would try calling a few safe or locksmith companies and go from there.

[jimalb]

I have talked to a couple of locksmiths around here and they did noi know of anyone in this area that could open this door for me, and flying someone in is not cost affective for me at this time.
Thanks
Jimmy

If I could figure out the legal groups of combinations I could do a spreedsheet of combo's and could save some time - (11.9 yrs. - should have started this when I moved in 15 yrs ago - maybe would be open by now)

[Eurisko]

I have talked to a couple of locksmiths around here and they did noi know of anyone in this area that could open this door for me, and flying someone in is not cost affective for me at this time.
Thanks
Jimmy

If I could figure out the legal groups of combinations I could do a spreedsheet of combo's and could save some time - (11.9 yrs. - should have started this when I moved in 15 yrs ago - maybe would be open by now)

Jimmy,

I'd give the stepper a try. jdr states that these safes will accept +- 1 in the sequence. That reduces the possible combinations to roughly 1,185,921 (33 to the 4th power for 4 number combinations). Would take about 54 days @ 4 seconds per combination.

For 3 number combinations, there will only be 35,937 (33 to the third power).
40 hours to crack it. Worth a try.

I'd try the 3 number sequence first. You may have to adjust the number of revolutions between numbers. For example, clockwise 2 turns to N1, counter-clockwise 1 turn to N2, then clockwise to N3.

The easiest way to do it would be to write a program in C (or even BASIC) to generate the gcode. Run the gcode through MACH3. MACH3 drives the stepper, sends an M code to try the lever, and stops running if a "door open" signal is received. I've left out a lot of details

[steve323]

Don't you just have to get the first 3 numbers set and then you can try all 100 possibilities for the last number without re-dialing the first 3 numbers? This would reduce the time it takes to work through all possible combinations.

[jdr]

You have to have all four numbers to open the safe(if it's a 4 number combo).

There is no way to know only the first 3 numbers.

[martinw]

Dear jimalb,

It was the weapons vault for the marine Reserve. It is built as an integrated part of the building, the walls are steal reinforced concreat filled cinderblock and solid concrete cieling best I can tell, the room is about 15' x 30' and there is a vent hole in the wall next to the floor that I was just able to put a telescoptng mirror in and look around.
There is a cage door on the inside of the vault door that will not let me see the inside of the vault door to see if there is a safty latch inside to open the door with.

Well, you need information about the inside of your vault, and my guess is that the vent could be a way to get it. OK, there may not be an inside release gizmo... but sniffing around inside cannot possibly do you any harm.

1) Small RC car with tiny video cam. They used this to peek into a burial chamber in Egypt a while ago, but consumer electronics have moved on and made this a really viable option for about (my guess $100) if you have a canny teenager in your household, or close by.

Information is power.

Just a thought,

Best wishes,
Martin