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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > Commercial CNC Wood Routers > Gerber > Grateful for advice about used Gerber Sabre 408
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  1. #26
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    If you purchase a Gerber sabre and want to do cabinets you need ENROUTE by SAI. If you look on e-bay you sometimes you can find it. You need the pro setup and it will be extra for the cabinet setup. I can tell you it does work SUPER. I have enroute for signs in 3D and have the cabinet turned on also. Cost will be about 6000.00.

  2. #27
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    ping i just read the part about "kickbacks" and if you find them let me know!!
    how is your router coming along? i find router ownership comes with a lot of passion and with any brand we all benefit from having and knowing other owners out there!!

    your experience will help all of us understand the gerber better, i was impressed with the post by vigilance good and factual info for all, enroute is a cad engine, the add on components are sold by tony shaw of router cad, another is kcdw for cabinet use. tony also has door cad and autocabinets, i am unaware of the design capability's of these but i am recieving a demo of kcdw.

    jim
    James McGrew CAMaster 508 ATC
    www.mcgrewwoodwork.com http://dropc.am/p/EJaKyl

  3. #28
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    Hi Dropout, welcome to the forum.

    You are correct, Gerber will help you run the machine, but they will not be helping you run it with other software. I was told that the reason Sabre's don't include much G-code functionality is because the guy they had working on it left the company. I think that was either a rumor or a lie, though, since if that were the case, they could have hired someone else to do it. :withstupi

    If ARTpath is bundled with the machine, and won't cost you extra, I'd take it. Just because you have it doesn't mean that you can never use anything else. Besides, for engraving letters and such, ARTpath really kicks @$$. It really is meant only for signmaking, though, and simple 2D shapes. The "3D" option you're talking about is called "Autocarve", and merely allows the machine to ramp to generate square corners on letters (and cut-outs), and to do prismatic lettering. It is not very flexible, as it was never meant for anything else.

    The ramping maneuvers performed by the machine during use of Autocarve toolpaths explicitly demonstrates the machine's (and controller's) capability to perform simultaneous interpolation of all 3 axes. The bottom line is this - although it is implemented in a very limited fashion in Gerber's software, the machine is 3 axis, not 2.5. (chair)

    G-code on the Sabre is limited to 2.5 axis maneuvers, and the servo acceleration seems anemic at best. A file would probably take forever to run in this mode. With Gerber's software (or at least when using their code), though, it is a bat out of hell. If there ever was some sort of bad error, you would not make it to the e-stop fast enough, even though they kindly provide 3 of them. (nuts) I feel that I must add, though, that this sort of thing hasn't happened in the 10 years I've used it.

    You don't have to go ripping out the controller to run other software, though. I'll talk to you more on PM. :stickpoke

  4. #29
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    Enroute works

    Just learned that Enroute has processors for Gerber Sabre.
    Seems like a good choice.

  5. #30
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    How much is it? And do they support all the features of the Sabre?

    Personally, I would make sure, since I was promised this very thing twice before. Both fell FAR short of the mark. And we're talking about a lot of money here.

    If you haven't used Gerber's software with the machine, you might be missing things you don't even know are there.

    If they are willing to generate a sample file (or more than one, preferably) that can be spooled to the machine, I would not hesitate to demand to test it before purchase. I mean, we are talking about $8000, aren't we? We've spent as much as 10k on one of them, and what we got was a VERY sloppy hack. Be careful of vendors that don't let you test things out thoroughly beforehand. And make sure their customer support is willing to help you. I have found out that most often, you get abandoned right after they have your money. (nuts)

    I apologize for the pessimism, but I've learned the hard way. And after 10 years and between 12-14k in software, I'm likely to remain skeptical about this until I see it with my own eyes.

  6. #31
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    i am sure viper is legit and is just as passionate about his cnc as we are!! i have seen his post before and have no reason to believe he is a salesman.

    enroute is like 2500.00 and each component is 2500 + each, so one would spend 7500+ trianing to do cabinetry, artcam to get near the equivilent of aspire is 7500 -10.000 $ . in my world aspire is 2000.00 and with cabinetparts pro 250.00 one can see why i am a fan of these softwares, full capability, lower prices excellent support. a lot has changed in software in the last six months and i believe we will see lower prices and other changes to come. for this reason i am a fan of nonpropietary controllers,

    http://www.routercad.com/WebPages/AutoCabinets.html

    jim
    James McGrew CAMaster 508 ATC
    www.mcgrewwoodwork.com http://dropc.am/p/EJaKyl

  7. #32
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    Thanks again for the advice. I will surely test any software before I buy. Can save me loads of dough.

    (Omg, its really a mess of free ways, pay roads, short cuts and dead ends to navigate in this CNC-world I just entered)

  8. #33
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    I agree with you, Cabnet. I think you should be able to run whatever software you want, at any time, including the free stuff, and with any controller. That is one idea I do like.

  9. #34
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    Machine running!

    Hi all helpful folks,
    Thought I should give y'all a report about the progress with the Gerber.
    I am finally installed in my new shop. The machine is up and running. Have done some test runs created with the old Omega and run trough Artpath.
    The Gerber runs smooth and with just a tiny backlash on the long Y-axle.
    Guess I eventually need to change the ball screw.

    I will receive, and do a test run with a 30 day copy of Artam Express, tomorrow.
    The price is acceptable considered it has native Gerber spooler options.
    I was planning to try the V-carve with the Gerber in g code-mode and the computer communication trough Hyper terminal. But I feel more confident with this solution. If I can make money on this setup I will start saving for a new one. CNC-ing is realy great fun!

    I have already been asked to do six big signs in wood. So now I need to find out how to coat/paint them to make them weather proof.

  10. #35
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    Anything you do in Artcam express you can do with gerber artpath. For doing anything 3d you need Artcam pro or enroute 4.

  11. #36
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    viper is correct. before you spend any money i believe artpath is the oem rename of express provided by gerber, much like shopbot reselling vcarve under another name. it will allow you to do some pretty cool stuff and i believe you can toolpath 3d in james booths 3dmachinist (free) with his 3d files from vector art 3d and import the tool path to artpath at that point you can add lettering and other paths like flutting and such,

    correct me if i am wrong

    jim
    James McGrew CAMaster 508 ATC
    www.mcgrewwoodwork.com http://dropc.am/p/EJaKyl

  12. #37
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    Update regarding my Gerber Sabre

    Hi all folks at CNCzone,
    I thought I give an update about my experiences with the machine so far.
    I had to change the y-axle to get the precision back. (Expensive) There is some squeaking in the X and Z too but not that much affecting the precision. I think some previous owner has used oil on them instead of dry lube.

    I finally bought Artcam Express and had managed to do 3D carvings, signs and a lot of cabinets. It’s really great to cut out all the panels, cut slots for Domino tenons (Festool) and then assembly the lot. The fittings are always perfect, panels square and within a 10th of millimetres. As a newbie it’s really a WOW experience. And when you do more than one cabinet of the same kind, the repeatability increases the revenue.

    I am doing 3D terrains for architectural models and the Mill wizard is a great help in this work.

    The problems I have had are with anomalies in feed rates and spindle speed.
    I am trying to get help from Artcam but nothing heard so far.
    No matter what feed rate I choose for inside or outside cuts it uses the same slow feed like 15 mm/sec. But when cutting a panel that isn’t square but rather like an L shape it speeds up to the desired speed on the inside of the L and slows down on the rest when doing an outside cut. And the opposite when doing an inside cut. Very strange.

    However, I found an old post in their forum saying that one should use inches/sec instead of mm/sec and use the spooler for Gerber with tool changer despite the model is made in mm. That, he said, corrected the problem. Have to try this in some dry cuts.

    My experiments with G-code haven’t been successful. The machine will simply not run.

    All in all I am a very happy CNC: er starting to make money on my machine. I haven’t done much advertising so far. Word has got around. Has had a lot of regular woodworking job, but now I feel that I want to go over more and more to CNC-work. Its fun, challenging and the competition is quite weak in my area just north of Stockholm.

    Thanks again for all help I have got so far from all you experienced guys!


    PS: If you ever happen to visit Sweden (middle part) drop me a line and we can have a cup of coffee in my shop.

  13. #38
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    I've played with Artcam and a 408 a little. Try setting the acceleration on the machine since there is no way to do so in Artcam. I think I read somewhere that Artcam will default to the lowest feedrate. I use IPM, acceleration on Auto and don't have a problem. I use the .ger (no ATC) post processor.

    For 3D work I make sure that the Z axis feedrate is as high as I can get away with. The Z seems to be the limiting factor, for instance X,Y 150 IPM, Z 100 IPM is faster than X,Y 200 IPM, Z 50 IPM.

    I've also had issues with the Y axis. The previous idiot, uh, I mean owner, used white grease as a lube. It took about 6 months to figure out why I was getting occasionaly Y-Axis errors but I tracked it down to the white grease and the dust and dirt it picked up. A couple of cans of non-chlorinated brake cleaner (especially by the drive nut) and the issues have gone away.

    I do all my maching (except 3D) with Gerber ArtPath. It also has it's issues, but they're manageable.

    My biggest frustration with the machine is the Z axis zeroing. I am having a dial gauge fixture built to be able to set each tool to within 0.001.

  14. #39
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    Suggestions for new vacuum tabletop

    Just want to throw out a question about the best replacement tabletop for my gerber sabre 408.
    I haven’t started using the vacuum table yet because the valves and tubes were worn out. Now I installed new valves and tubing so everything is set up for vacuum. The vacuum pump is a 7,5 kw Siemens.
    Here is what I would like to do:
    There are seven zones running along the length of the machine with T-slots in between. The zones are full of holes in larger recesses.
    That’s great when cutting whole sheets, but I want to be able to narrow down the vacuum zone. Some tables has phenolic tops that you can limit with rubber sealings. Is it possible to make such a tabletop out of a plastic sheet?
    Or could I just put out soft plastic sheets around the material I want to rout, so that the plastic is sucked down against the holes.
    A third option is to just "peel of" and put an mdf on top and use as a bleed trough. But I think maybe my vacuum pump is too small for that. Or is it?

    If someone has any experience with these matters, I would very much appreciate any suggestions.

  15. #40
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    hi ping just read your post glad to see your a CNC man. I've ran a sabre 408 8hrs a day 5 days a week for the last 7 yrs. I can make that machine do things that blows alot of ppl away. For our vacuum top we put a 3/4 sheet of sintra on the top with contact cement. Then mill the surface flat and drill a 5/8 hole 1/4 deep then drill 1/8" holes in the center of the holes into the aluminium. That way you create a hole with a good suction and then you can still control the 7 zones. works good for us anyways, not sure if the MDF way will work for you on a sabre. Thats what we use on our biesse but the pump for that is the size of the gerber lol. I've bought a CNC for home use (wish I could afford a sabre) i got a little K2cnc. If i could only run artpath on my machine at home I would be content. Artpath doesn't get the credit it deserves havent seen to many softwares out there that can get a job faster from drawing > toolpath> machine as good as Artpath. Just my 2 cents

  16. #41
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    I need new cables

    Hey TazzyDean, do you no where to purchase encoder motor cables for the x,y and z axis? Mine are going bad and Gerber distributors want $398 per cable. I appreciate any help on this.

  17. #42
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    Vacuum Chuck for CNC Router

    Vacuum chucks are available for the small part sizes that you are needing to machine on your CNC router. A channel seal is used to contain the vacuum to the shape of the part. If interested, send machine size details and part details -

    Precision Spindle & Accessories Inc.

    www.precisionspindleinc.com tel. 519 671 3911
    haviland@precisionspindleinc.com fax. 519 652 5994

  18. #43
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    Help Please

    Can someone give a step by step instructions on how to run Enroute 3-d software on the Sabre 408 router. I know how to design thangs..i just don't understand how to get the g-code into the router... Note: My Enroute software is in my design computer, The router has its own computer.. What software or driver do i need in the router computer???? Thanks Dennis myrvpark@gmail.com

  19. #44
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    Hej

    Hej Ping!

    Äger själv en Gerber Sabre 408 sedan många år.
    Gör i regel orginal i illustrator som jag öppnar i Composer som därefter skickas till Artpath. I artpath fixar jag jag med verktygsinställningar etc.
    Sedan skickas den filen till en spooler som "snackar med fräsen"
    Detta funkar kanon!
    Nu till min fråga:
    Jag vill nu fräsa 3D och har därför införskaffat: Artcam2007 build 151
    Hur gör jag nu för att artcam ska "snacka med fräsen"
    Några tips och ideér.
    M v h
    Nicklas

  20. #45
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    Did you figure this out?

    I think Enroute will export a .ptl file. That file can be imported by ArtPath on the computer that runs the 408. If you have any other questions, let me know.

    Quote Originally Posted by signup View Post
    Can someone give a step by step instructions on how to run Enroute 3-d software on the Sabre 408 router. I know how to design thangs..i just don't understand how to get the g-code into the router... Note: My Enroute software is in my design computer, The router has its own computer.. What software or driver do i need in the router computer???? Thanks Dennis myrvpark@gmail.com

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    I've played with Artcam and a 408 a little. Try setting the acceleration on the machine since there is no way to do so in Artcam. I think I read somewhere that Artcam will default to the lowest feedrate. I use IPM, acceleration on Auto and don't have a problem. I use the .ger (no ATC) post processor.

    For 3D work I make sure that the Z axis feedrate is as high as I can get away with. The Z seems to be the limiting factor, for instance X,Y 150 IPM, Z 100 IPM is faster than X,Y 200 IPM, Z 50 IPM.

    I've also had issues with the Y axis. The previous idiot, uh, I mean owner, used white grease as a lube. It took about 6 months to figure out why I was getting occasionaly Y-Axis errors but I tracked it down to the white grease and the dust and dirt it picked up. A couple of cans of non-chlorinated brake cleaner (especially by the drive nut) and the issues have gone away.

    I do all my maching (except 3D) with Gerber ArtPath. It also has it's issues, but they're manageable.

    My biggest frustration with the machine is the Z axis zeroing. I am having a dial gauge fixture built to be able to set each tool to within 0.001.
    I´ve started to play in Art Cam pro.
    I have a old Sabre408 with ATC, usually working in Art Path.
    Can U tell me how to get the .ger files from ArtPath in to the sabre.
    on the forum people talks about "hyper terminal" Gerber Spooler etc...
    Best regards Nick

  22. #47
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    Hi Nick

    There should be a program called ArtSpool loaded on your computer. That seems to work reasonably well. There are limitations though. It will use wherever you start as 0,0 so you need to manually move your machine to the Home position before you start machining. It also will not allow a tool change within the program so you need to run a separate program for each tool bit.

    Dropout

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    Hi Nick

    There should be a program called ArtSpool loaded on your computer. That seems to work reasonably well. There are limitations though. It will use wherever you start as 0,0 so you need to manually move your machine to the Home position before you start machining. It also will not allow a tool change within the program so you need to run a separate program for each tool bit.

    Dropout
    Thank´s for your post.
    Art spool I have but when I try to launch it I get a error message.
    The return home 0,0 is a thing I had in ArtPath before I´m used to that...
    OK if i get Art spool to work, do you have a clue what way to get the files in to the comport? Can I use gerbers spool?
    Regards Nicklas

  24. #49
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    Hi Nick

    What error do you get?

    What communication protocols are you using?

    Dropout

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    Hi Nick

    What error do you get?

    What communication protocols are you using?

    Dropout
    Hi
    Artspool is now working (version is 1.3)

    I load a file made in Art Cam pro 2008 build151
    The file is a .ger file

    Artspool asks: File transfer will commence after this message. Is the machine ready?
    The router is on in X0 Yo home.
    Yes
    Then artspool: "Unable to establish communication with machine"

    The communication settings in artspool:
    Machine: Sabre 408
    Protocol: Gerber
    Serialport: Com1
    Baud rate: ? 2400
    Data bits, Parity, Stop bits and flow control cant be changed

    Any ideas?
    Best regards Nick

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