[Mike F]

Hi,

I have just started the process of importing a laser engraver/cutter from China and thought it would be a good idea to log the process here, as it happens so others could learn from my mistakes or profit from my good fortune - whichever may be appropriate

To complete my retirement workshop and to fill an ever increasing demand for cut, sheet material, I decided I needed a CNC laser cutter/engraver. I already have a Syil Super X3 CNC mill, a homemade CNC router/mill and a very nice, large Chinese lathe.

Where do you start? If you do a search for CNC laser engravers you get a mind boggling number of hits so how do you filter these. Well, the way I did it was to use one of the business search engines and I found www.globalsources.com The beauty of this kind of search engines is they list their 'verified' suppliers and you can start with at least a modicum of confidence.

I waded through the companies and all their machines and put a check mark next to the companies that interested me. I think there were something like ten in total. You then just click the 'InquireNow' button, fill in a few details and your enquiry shoots off to all the marked companies.

Within minutes I got my first response!!! A few hours later I got two more responses and that was it! Seven of the ten just did not respond One of the three just directed me to their UK agent. Out of interest I looked at their UK website - no prices - what a surprise. I phoned and they quoted some silly prices. That left two companies so I searched through all their products for one that suited my needs.

I really wanted the largest machine I could get through a standard, 800mm doorway. Unfortunately, my workshop has two doors neither of which are big enough for serious machinery to pass through and I did not want to start removing doorframes. A desktop machine would be superb as it would easily fit through the door on its side. However, there seems to be serious restrictions on cutting areas with these machines and the largest either company could muster was a 500mm x 300mm machine - not quite large enough for my needs - I needed at least 600mm in one direction.

Both companies do 600mm x 400mm machines and this was the size I decided to go for. However, one of the companies' machines was too large to fit through the door so I was left with JCUT CNC Equipment Co., Ltd.

I replied to the three companies who responded and I have to say that the continued response from Mandy at Jcut has been superb. Eighteen emails and four days later, they have my order.

In my next post I will list some of the questioned I felt I needed to ask and the responses I got back. So far my experiences are very good.

Mike

[dvdlock]

Hi Mike,

I will be following your progress with interest. Initially I thought about importing a machine myself but I ended up purchasing from HPC Laser here in the UK.
I am on my second machine, the first, a 4060 40W which I had just a few months, I thought would meet my needs but I soon found I was restricted in table size. I now have a 6090 60W from the same supplier.

Of coarse you pay more when buying this way but I have found the on-going support from HPC laser to be great, and all the spare parts I may need in the future are available off the shelf.

From what I have seen, mainly through forums like this, is that all the Chinese machines are very similar. Most of the machines above the desktop models use LaserCut 5.1 software. I have found this to be easy to use and surprisingly it has a lot of features, including layers, so you can work with raster and vector in the same operation.

I understand that these machines may not be up to those such as the Epilogs etc. but they can produce some impressive results with both engraving and cutting.

Given the other machines you have, soon to be complimented with your Laser, I look forward to hearing about some interesting projects you'll have on the go.

Good luck

Dave.

[Mike F]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for looking in.

Support and spares was always on my list of concerns but I was not prepared to pay virtually twice the price for a similar machine from the UK. OK, I know I will have to pay import duty, handling charges and the like but I still come out many quids in. It remains to be seen if I have done the right thing.

I would have loved a larger machine but just could not get it in the workshop. Having recently extended the workshop, I am not sure she who must be obeyed would be keen to agree to a further extension . A long, narrow workshop is not the ideal shape but one has to live with what one's got.

You are right about the Chinese machines being similar. Although there are many different table formats, it does not take too much searching before you realise you have seen a machine before. It is also very difficult to know whether these businesses are genuine manufacturers or just supply chain, middle men.

More later,

Mike

[Mike F]

Hi,

Never having bought anything directly from China I was more than a little apprehensive. So much so that I contacted an acquaintance, who regularly imports machinery from China into the UK, and someone I have bought from before, with a view to him brokering the deal as he knows the ins and outs of importation. His words were, "There really is nothing to it but if you do have concerns, get yourself an import agent who will do all the necessary for you and arrange transport to your address." and his parting words were, "Go for it!"

So, back to Google and search for an import agent in the Liverpool area, as Liverpool is my port of choice being just fifteen miles away. There are hundreds - which one do you choose? My plan of action was to choose one of the big boys, who operate throughout the country, and ask a few questions. The one I chose, which will remain anonymous, said they don't deal with China as there are far too many problems - not a good start - but he did give me some advice.

As the company I was buying the machine from have organised the shipping, I would not need an agent this end as the shipping company would already have one. That makes things easier as long as it is a reputable firm. He warned me that there are many, many unscrupulous agents who rip you off for handling charges then share the proceeds with the exporter. Oh dear, what have I let myself in for?

The other thing he mentioned was that I must get the correct ‘Commodity Code’ for the goods or else it may be held at customs as it is the commodity code that lets customs know how much to charge for import duty. OK, look on the Internet again for commodity codes. Not an easy site to navigate but I managed to find a code that seemed to fit - though I was not sure it was the right one.

My next course of action was to contact Jcut again and ask them who the shipping company was and if they knew the commodity code. The answer came by return (I really am impressed with the quality of reply from Jcut). The shipping company was COSCO and the commodity code is 8456 10 00 90. Back onto the Internet to check the code - 'code not recognised'!!!! - though there was one very close that mentioned laser machines and that code is 8456 10 00 00. Back to Jcut explaining that the code was wrong and again, by return, a message that the code was correct and I should not be concerned as they have exported very many machines without a problem.

Now to check out the shipping company COSCO. Internet again to find the UK agents. COSCO is a huge enterprise and I was left feeling that my machine was in good hands. However, they did ask whether my machine was in a container by itself or as a part load (LCL) I replied that I thought it was LCL. "Strange" was the reply "We don't normally deal with LCL freight". He explained that LCL (less than container load) is where a lot of problems lie as there are very many different consignees and handling becomes a nightmare.

An email to Jcut soon got the response, and an apology for not explaining before, that my machine would indeed be shipped in its own container. This was a big relief as the guy at COSCO UK said that they could handle all the customs work, handling and delivery to my door as long as it was not a part load. This would cost of course - and that cost has yet to be established.

Once I was happy that reputable companies were handling the machine. I was quite happy to send off my money via paypal.

While all this was going on, there were emails flying back and forth to Mandy at Jcut to establish what I needed on my machine. In the end I have ordered a machine with a cutting area of 600mm x 400mm with a honeycomb bed (extra), a rotary axis (extra), 60watt laser, cooling water pump, air extractor (free), electrically operated bed, to accommodate the rotary axis and it comes with software and manual in English. I did ask whether I needed a water chiller as I had read somewhere that you need one for a laser machine. Jcut were very insistant that I did not need one for a 60watt laser but maybe for 100watts and up one would be needed. I could have one if I wanted but it would be another 600USD

The money is paid and I was hoping they could get the machine on board for this Sunday but because I am having a rotary axis, they need to lower the table mechanism and this means it will now be Sunday 31st before it is shipped They did say that the extra table mechanism, necessary for the rotary table, should cost 300USD but they have put that in for free and they will also insure the shipping for free too.

Now the long wait.

Mike

[dvdlock]

All interesting stuff. Good luck with the import Mike.

Keep us all posted on progress.

Regards

Dave,

[Mike F]

Hi,

A quick update.

I received confirmation today that my machine was on board and on its way. The bill of laden - an important shipping document - will be posted to me and this is very necessary for clearing customs and import officianados at this end. I will probably end up getting the shipping company (COSCO) to do the necessary as I think this may be money well spent.

I also received a copy, via email, of the manual. I downloaded it and printed it off so I could peruse it at my leisure. A quick glance through it suggested it was not for my machine but a smaller version. It also listed other models but none of them was the one I had ordered. This got me more than a little worried as I had visions of them sending the wrong machine. I sent an email post haste.

It is to Jcut's credit that I received an email by return, despite it being very late in the evening in China. They apologised for not telling me that the manual was a generic one that covered many machines, despite mine not being mentioned. I was assured that the right machine had been shipped.

Next job is to receive the bill of laden and to contact COSCO. How long does it take to ship from China to Liverpool? - Can't wait.

Mike

[Mike F]

Well, it's been some time since the last update and things seem to be moving in the right direction. The ship, the COSCO HELLAS docks in Felixstowe on 26th June, this Friday.

Toward the end of last week I contacted the logistics side of COSCO to find out why it was docking in Felixstowe when I had paid for shipment to Liverpool. They said that without the bill of laden they could not help as that document would verify whether I had paid for carriage from Felixstowe to Liverpool or whether this would be an additional cost. They were very helpful and put my mind at rest that they would get everything sorted for me as soon as I get the bill of laden to them.

I contacted the supplier again and they said the bill of laden would be sent via TNT as soon as the office opened on Monday 22nd.

Today I got an invoice from another logistics company that already had all the details and had been part of the original deal (it would have been nice to have been told this information by the supplier) I phoned them immediately for more information and again, their help was very encouraging. I queried the amount for 'Inland Haulage' as I thought I had paid for shippment to liverpool. Again, the answer was that without the bill of laden, they could not help.

I said I was a bit concerned that I had not got the bill of laden yet and was worried that I may incurr storage costs. Apparently, the logistics company allow seven days free storage to allow for delayed paperwork. This was quite a relief.

The invoice was for £397.30 GBP and consisted of:
£120 LCL Terminal Handling (LCL stands for Less than Container Load)
£82.50 UK Documentation
£24.00 UK Handling Charge
$40 CISF (This is a charge made to the customer for using certain Chinese agents)
£70 Customs Clearance
£75 Inland Haulage

On top of this there will be the dreaded VAT to pay at 15%

If these are the only extra costs, then the whole exercise will have been well worth it. This does of course assume the machine does everything it is supposed to do

[dvdlock]

Very interesting Mike.

It does seem the process has been relatively pain free.

Yes, the dreaded VAT and don't forget Duty, no doubt there will me a bit of that to pay as well.

Good luck with the remainder of the shipping. Hope it arrives safely.

Regards

Dave.

[Mike F]

Finally, the bill of laden seems to be on its way. I emailed the company again and it was sent by TNT on Friday 26th June. They gave me a tracking number, and this one works, so I know it is actually on its way.

Waiting for this bill of laden has been the most worrying part and I cannot see a reason why the machine, on a cargo ship from China, that takes the best part of four weeks, can get to the UK quicker than some paperwork. This paperwork is so important to the release of the goods at this end and I have heard that storage costs are exorbitant.

The paperwork should be with me on Monday - I'll report back then.

Mike

[Signmaker]

Don't forget that the VAT applies to the machine and the shipping cost. HMRC treat the cost of the machine and the cost of sea freight as a single item- you'll be charged 15% on the entire cost of the invoice your Chinese supplier gave you.

The bill of lading is critical because it's basically a certificate of ownership- kinda like a passport for the machine. Without the lading bill you can't prove that you are the legal owner so the shippers won't release goods- if they release without a bill of lading they are liable for the consequences- something they are keen to avoid.

What you might need to consider is what the UK shipping agents mean by "original copy" of the lading bill. Most shippers want the actual piece of paper and won't accept a fax copy. If you are worried about timing and getting stung for storage costs you might want to see if the UK agents will accept a fax with the original to follow. If they won't you'll have to get the lading bill from your address to the shippers pretty quickly.

A couple of safeguards- firstly- take a copy of the lading bill before you send it to the shippers, if they lose it you've got a copy. Second DO NOT send the original by Royal Mail- they'll almost certainly lose it. Use a data bag from TNT or UPS so you have tracking AND a signature of receipt.

The Bill of Lading is VERY important so it pays to treat it like it's made out of Solid Gold

Another thing I would query is which company is handling the transfer from the dock up to you Lancs and whether or not the £75 includes full insurance for your machine- for that money it should do.

I've been through the process of bringing things in from China quite a few times and quite coincidentally have a laser machine docking in a couple of weeks.

I've got my machine sent to Southampton so I can collect it from the docks in my own transport- I'll be handing over the lading bill in person.

It's all pretty simple stuff but you are right to be wary of UK shippers and their "extras".

[Mike F]

Hi Signmaker,

Thanks for the comments.

The UK shippers said that if I send a fax of the bill of lading, they can get things started but they would require the original before releasing the goods. This gives me a little more time and, certainly, I intend sending the original by some sort of recorded delivery.

I just cannot understand why it has taken so long to get the bill of lading to me. This is the only thing that has really caused some concern from the whole process.

I've got my machine sent to Southampton

Yes, mine was supposed to be sent to Liverpool where I could arrange my own transport but apparently a lot of Chinese companies do not appreciate that all British ports are not equal and that the vast majority dock in Felixstowe only.

Mike

[Signmaker]

When it comes to the documentation side of things the Chinese can be a bit slack so I wouldn't worry too much. I haven't got my bill of lading yet but I do have a receipt of loading from the Chinese shippers and the container number. I don't know the TARRIC code yet but I think there is a generic "machine tool" customs code.

Do you have something similar? It really helps if you have the container number. I would ask your supplier to email you a scanned in copy of the lading bill just so you can see it. If you get desperate you can quickly print this off and fax it to the UK agents to buy a bit more time.

Chinese suppliers ALWAYS want to use Felixstowe because it's some kind of easy option... I've had to fight like mad to get the message through that it's Southampton or "no deal". I'm not surprised they've ignored your instructions to ship to Liverpool- the same thing has happened to me in the past visa vie Southampton.

I'm sure it will all work out nicely for you in the end. It's a shame I didn't read this post much sooner as I could have given you the details of the suppliers I use- they've been shipping stuff to me for years and I've not had a problem with them once.

If you plan on buying other stuff from China I'd recommend you look into air freight as an option. As long as the goods are not massive in weight of volume air freight is almost always cheaper in the long run. I've just bought a Tig welder which is about the same size as your laser and it's cost £150 to air freight it door to door from Shanghai.

Air freight is MUCH easier and a lot less hassle. You don't need a lading bill and you get a proper door to door service. If you use DHL or UPS they bring the goods right to your doorstep and give you a COD invoice which includes the customs charge and VAT. Air freight handling charges are ALWAYS smaller than sea freight.

I learned the hidden costs of sea freight the hard way- it's amazing the amount of charges and fees UK shipping agents can invent out of thin air. I know it's too late but the information might be useful next time.

Good Luck- let us know how it turns out.

[stephaniehamer]

hi, just a quick note to say that i agreed to have my machine shipped to Manchester, but it was shipped to Felixstowe, even though it had Manchester as the destination on the bill of lading, anyway after a bit of faffing about, my seller agreed to refund me the delivery charge from Felixstowe to my house!

[Mike F]

anyway after a bit of faffing about, my seller agreed to refund me the delivery charge from Felixstowe to my house!

No such luck for me I'm afraid.

Got another bill today, for Import Duty - £78.73 GBP, Import VAT - £474.70 GBP and something called Deferment Fee - £15. I don't know what this Deferment Fee is but I have asked for an explanation. Had to pay the bill in full though as the office was shut when I received the emailed invoice and I was told that storage charges would be made from 8th July. Hopefully, now that I have paid all necessary fees, there should be no hold up in the machine's delivery.

The purchase price was 4749 USD (2907.43 GBP) and this included 250 USD for shipment. The duty, VAT, handling and other payments this end come to a whopping 965.73 GBP or, 33% of the purchase price

However, for under £4000 GBP I have a machine that would have cost close to £8000 had I bought it in the UK. OK, so I haven't seen it yet or used it yet but I still think that a 60 watt laser machine with a cutting area of 600mm x 400mm, complete with honeycomb table and rotary attachment for under four grand is not too bad.

More info and pictures when machine gets here

Mike

[Mike F]

I'm getting a little worried now as my machine has not yet been released by customs and the freight movers have said that I will have to start paying storage from 8th July - tomorrow!!!

I really hope these are not delaying tactics in order to get more money from me. I have been assured that as soon as customs have released it, it will be straight onto a wagon for delivery. Apparently, the freight company contact customs every hour for news on consignments but customs will only start releasing items once the duty and VAT have been paid and my duty and VAT was paid by the freight company only today!!

Let's hope that customs can get it cleared quickly.

Mike

[devplayer]

It's been delayed quite a few. I'm looking forward for details too

[Mike F]

:banana:It's here!!!:banana:

The machine finally arrived today in a very large crate. It was extremely well packaged and seems to have escaped undamaged. I have not had much time to inspect it fully but on first looking, it appears to be very well made and constructed. The carcase is of quite heavy gauge steel and everything is solidly mounted.

Unfortunately I go away tomorrow for a few days round the Norwegian Fjords so won't be able to do anything till I get back However, I will be taking the 68 page machine manual and 57 page software manual away with me for some light, evening reading.

Photos and more detail after the trip.

Mike

[Pierke]

Congratulations Mike..........mmmmpppffff...

What a heavy job.

We are looking for pictures, softwarename e.o

Succes,

Pierke

[pete00]

Mike

Thanks for sharing this post, not to put you under any pressure but im in contact with JCUT as well. Based on your results I may buy as well, then the wife will call and yell at you for making me buy more toys.......pete

[Mike F]

Hi,

Just got back from the Norwegian Fjords - what a fantastic place for scenery and dramatic backdrops - stunning is just about the only word for it.

However, good to be back and have some time to work on the laser machine. Attached are a couple of photos taken as I unpacked the machine - unfortunately, in my enthusiasm, I forgot to take a picture of it in its crate

I have to somehow move the machine from the garage into the workshop, just the other side of the door in the top left of the picture. Problem is, it does not fit through this door so I will have to wheel it round the back of the house and through another door that is slightly wider. Fortunately, the machine has some really substantial wheels on it that have brakes and there are also some beefy feet that can be lowered once the machine is in place. This is the first job to do, well before fitting all the ancillary equipment shown in the other photo.

The ancillary equipment consists of; from left to right, flexible, 100mm tube for extraction, rotary attachment, (back) blower for extraction, submersible water pump for laser cooling, compressor for air assist, (back) moulded plastic box with all cables, software, keys, bits and pieces etc. This box was sealed and included two packs of desiccant to keep everything dry. Finally, at the very back is the laser tube itself. This is a 60w tube.

I will take some more detailed photos and add comment as I put the machine and software together. I mentioned before that I took the manuals away with me for some bedtime reading. I read both manuals from cover to cover at least twice and the English translation leaves a little to be desired but it does seem to be understandable - this remains to be seen over the next few days!!