[DaveKennedy]

Fellow CNCers,

CNC has become affordable to many now, from the hobbyist to the small business.
I see guys building machines within their budget of what they can afford, but a lot of the software that we could really make use of, has a price tag aimed at big industry and is not a justifiable expense for many of us.

I also think that the software vendors are missing out on a huge market of CNCers that all talk to each other, help each other, share their knowledge and could promote their product, unlike big industry.

Many of these software companies offer huge discounts to students, so why not help the hobbyist or limited user?

What I’m proposing is to approach the vendor of that program and make them an offer… a bulk buy… by guys that want it but can’t justify the cost. What’s the harm in trying... everybody wins.

I’m personally interested in a Rhino package, but I’m not going to run a machine 24/7 to justify the $4,000

So I would like to hear from you. Is there a program you would buy today if it was affordable?

[DMF_TomB]

try http://www.gsimple.eu/index.html

it is free. it was written around a tool changer. so gsimple needs to know what tool is in the tool changer. gsimple then needs to be told what tools are doing what machining.

for example if you call out using a 6mm endmill. it has to be in the toolchanger. the project material has to be specified then it will calculate speed and feeds. you may have to edit what feeds and speeds you want for different project materials.

So if have have no tool changer it takes a little patience reading the help file. although it is not perfect it works and will post gcode. it also can translate gcode for a different machine. to get the gcode translator to work requires understanding the gcode your machine requires.

i know of no CAD CAM software that does everything automatically if nothing else software will not know what tooling you have available to use and how you will hold the project material.

also try http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
this list alot of CAD CAM software and most is free

[DaveKennedy]

Thanks for reply Tom, I think I didn't put my question very well, because that was not quite the answer I was looking for.

I was hoping to find a group of like minded individuals that wanted to learn how to use CAD/CAM and could use the features from some of the very expensive programs, but could not justify the high price that the software vendors charge.

I believe that the high prices that they charge big industry are to cover the support that they are obliged to give and Industry can pay it because they will quickly recoupe the money and make profit on it..

The hobbyist or low time user in many cases can not afford/justify these prices and may never recoupe the investment. Further more, they do not need the support, because they have all the support they need from fellow hobbyists on these forums.

What I was hoping for was to get a group of people together, that could go to these big software vendors and say " because we can not justify your industry price, we may never buy your product. But would you offer us a group discount as hobbyists and small time users".

Is there anyone out there that would buy a top end CAD/CAM program if we could get together and negotiate a price, pro-rata to the environment it will be used in?

Dave K

[harley4ever]

Try dolphin cad cam. I am pretty sure there is an office in England. Im very satisfied with it.

[DMF_TomB]

Good luck trying to get software vendors to lower their price.

I noticed in China the software cd are $0.70 and dvd are $1.40.

Obviously they are pirated copies. My point is they have a huge competitive advantage by going to a local computer store.

A funny thing happen at a bus stop. A saw dozens of street vendors grabbing there cardboard boxes and walking quickly down the street all in the same direction. When I looked in the opposite direction a policeman (no gun just a radio) was walking slowly down the street. The vendors know if caught the will loose their box of cd's and maybe have to pay a small fine. ..... Of course 1/2 hour later they come back to the same spot.

[DaveKennedy]

Thanks for the reponce guys. :cheers:

I think I am going to abandon my quest. You see, my situation is I run a small business. I've built my own machine rather than buy one because...

A. I can't afford to buy one.
B. If I could afford to buy one, it wouldn't get enough use to justify the cost.

My business is not built around CNC machining, but it could be an important piece of kit when I do need it, maybe once every 2 or 3 months.

My problem Is that I will need the power of Rhino's NURB surface modeling and also it's ability to import scanned .stl files and 'drape' them so that I can treat them as a surface and modify it. In other words I need that expensive program.

The part the gets me is that I've gone to all the trouble to build a machine and save money and now the software is going to cost more than the machine. It's not that I'm really tight or want something for nothing, but simply can't justify the cost... It would take years to recoupe the $4,000 spent on software and in these hard times of resession any buisness needs to be making profit right now not investing for 3 years down the line.

I thought there would be many like me, with all these new machines being built and we could get together and go to a software vendor and say " as individuals, we can not justify the cost of your program, but we are many, would you be prepared to sell to us at a price pro-rata to the enviroment it will be used in".

Yes, your right, I probably could get a pirate copy, but it goes against the grain for me. I don't like it when people copy my work.

It was just an idea, because everybody wins. The software vendor sells many copies of his program to people that may not have ever bought it at the price they sell it to industry, and we as hobbyists or small time users, get the advantages of a powerfull industry program.

You might say, why do I not buy the software using the money I spent on the machine and 'farm' the work out? But I've learnt that it's good to do things 'in house' as you do them when you want to.. no lead times and If you need to change your design it's down to you to make instant changes.

If I'm alone in my thinking then I shall have to delay my projects until I can find the money, then find uses for the machine to make it pay for it's self.

Some software vendors do recognise the hobbyist market and sell to them at a discount price, because they simply wouldn't sell it to them otherwise, further more the hobbyist market talk to each other and promote the product, where as big industry don't, they keep their investment behind closed doors. Big industry wouldn't get together and go looking for a cut price, because they don't have to. I was hoping more people in my situation could get together. But getting people to say "yes, I'd use a powerfull program if it was at a price I could justfy" is harder than I thought. :stickpoke(group)

[yohudi]

Thanks for the reponce guys. :cheers:

I think I am going to abandon my quest. ....

:stickpoke(group)

Why not take a look here first....

http://cnc4free.org

I am not a fan of costly software myself... I just can't justify it when you can acheive so much at little or no cost...

Hope this helps

Danny

[steve1297]

HI,

if you get the time have a look at alphacam by Planit i heard somwhere that they do an online version that you only pay for the time that you use. i could be wrong but is worth a look its good software too,

[bad bearings]

You may be able to use excel to make parts even using nurbs. Take a look at this guy's idea: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...ionary_3d_.php If you have the creativity to build a CNC you probably can build some software that will meet your needs without buying a seat of mastercam etc... It sounds like you have a specialized purpose in mind and don't need a commercial system. I am in a similar situation.

Good luck

[bad bearings]

I've been looking into this problem myself and believe that Blender may offer an adequate solution. Blender.org These guys work in animation and have some .stl and .dxf import tools can handle some NURBS surfaces as well as kinimatic modeling. At the moment their project is open source and free.

[Maarten Visser]

I symphatise with dave. I also have a small business, with a home built cnc machine, that does good jobs, but its not central in my business. (I make flute heads and woodwind repairs and keys for a living). Rhino has paid itself back, that was a good investment (especially when I could buy it for 500 euro). But good cam software is much more expensive. I tried meshcam and cut 3d, but they really are hobby stuff- cost more time than they save.

So here is my idea: could a groep of businesses set up a co-ownership of software and access it over internet? Someone has to host it over on his own server, of course. Each pay an entry fee, yearly membership and small money for calculation time. And there is the yearly BBQ, of course. Could we pull this off? I know I would love to get to work with worknc or the like!
regards, maarten (Netherlands)

[lovebugjunkie]

Dave

Have you looked at Aspire from Vectric. It may fill your needs.

http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectr...ire_index.html

[Donkey Hotey]

Have you looked at BobCad? I know little about it. Based on the forums I've seen, it's not totally trouble-free but then, neither is any other software package. I think it's under $2K US for the CAD / Mill package.

http://bobcad.com/index.php?select_p...full_tabs_page

[derekj308]

Ask Rhino (or their reseller) if they have a leasing option. You may be able to justify it over a few years instead of in one hit.

[Maarten Visser]

Is there anyone out there that would buy a top end CAD/CAM program if we could get together and negotiate a price, pro-rata to the environment it will be used in?

Dave K

Sound like a good idea to me. Talking for myself, I already have cad (rhino), but for cam I hace vectrix cut3d which does not satisfy my needs.

best regards, Maarten

[mwestvang]

I have the same problem. We purchased a ShopSabre router and upgraded to Rhino software for $1100 only to find our needs are actually Rhino Pro for an additional $3200.

We really like the Rhino CAD but would like too find a less expensive solution to CAM that will do 3D.

Mike

[billadam]

Often when designers use inexpensive low-end CAD/CAM software, they soon face design challenges that require more computing horsepower. And if they can’t find a solution within the same product line, users must buy another, more expensive product and learn the new interface. VX Corp. (Melbourne, FL) believes it can offer the solution in its new VX Innovator product, designed to put high-end CAD/CAM within reach from learning, scalability, and cost standpoints. Preloaded with tutorials, Innovator software can be upgraded to any level of CAD/CAM, including full design, mold and die, and manufacturing.

The modeling tools work seamlessly with surface and solid geometry, and can work with poor geometry, offering healing and surface editing tools to work with nonsolid geometry. Innovator offers an entire suite of detailing and layout tools for communicating design concepts and quoting, and can style models with complex sweeps, lofts, and domes. Popular assembly tools for top-down and bottom-up design help to ensure assembly part fit and range of motion, and any needed features not included in this base product can be purchased in other VX product bundles(nuts)
Group collaboration

[lumberjack_jeff]

Sadly, there are very few open source cad/cam programs out there. One of the most promising is HeeksCNC

http://code.google.com/p/heekscnc/

I've downloaded it, but my router table isn't complete yet, so I have no good way to test it.

[laiky]

I just got bobcad mill and lathe pro V23 with clipart and some other stuff i don't know what to do with for $900 US at eastec. Call them and ask if they will honor show pricing. their a little shifty on pricing. If you contact me privately i will give you a break down of what i got. Oh i also got all the training CDs included too. Not a bad deal, i just have to figure out how to use it now..