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  1. #21
    here are the pictures

    the story step by step again:

    1. A "checksum M01" problem appeared.
    - I changed the accumulator.
    - I loaded in the machine parameters.

    2. The machine worked for 2 weeks, suddenly
    duirng the work procedure it became "frozen".
    - I had to switch the machine off.

    3. After switching on the display looked like the chess table (pictures attached).
    - Power supply (+5V,+12 V, +-15 V) were OK
    - BUT: Accu backup was broken. I corrected it.

    4. After switching on it said: RAM-Failure.
    - I changed the RAM. (16 pieces - HM62256)

    5. Switching on: chess table on the display again!

    6. I tried to switch on with CPU and video card only.

    Chess table remained.

    7. I changed the EPROMs.

    Chess table remained.

    Finally, I do not have any more idea. I was thinking about to localize the card, which has the problem.

    I am looking for a CPU card (Type: 4022 226 2390).

    Can anyone help me?

    Best regards,

    Kiss
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails HPIM3210_70_vagott.JPG   HPIM3211_70_vagott.JPG  

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    59
    Start with the basics and be very thorough. You are having multiple problems it seems, and it may all be for the same reason, or it could be you are causing new issues while trying to solve the old issues. Recheck all the connectors (cables, back plane connection, etc.). Reseat the IC's, but (and I cannot emphasize this enough), be cautious about static discharge - use a static wrist strap. Given the difficulty in finding and replacing CNC432 boards, just do the safe thing even if you think it's unnecessary. While fixing one thing, you can cause another problem, and the symptoms might look exactly the same.

    Check your power supplies with an oscilloscope if you can (I know, not everyone has one). A multi-meter just shows the average voltage, but a failing power supply could be oscillating and causing spikes which might cause all sorts of issues.

    But, preferably, if you can beg, borrow or steal a replacement CPU board, it would be way better to isolate for sure that it's the CPU board before going through and touching everything in the machine.

    Also, I should ask, are you sure the new memory chips were good before installing them, and you didn't ruin any with static discharge?

    Forgive me if this is all obvious, but I find many times people chase an issue in electronics only to find it was something simple, yet their methods of solving it were quite drastic. This is especially true on old electronics where the ramifications of a mistake are quite severe due to replacement parts being rare.

  3. #23
    As far as I could, I took care about avoiding the any case, which could cause one more problem.
    I checked the power supplies with oscilloscope, there is no oscillation or spike.

    If the RAM installed had had any problem, the controller should have been able to "wake up" and inform me about that the RAMs have problem.

    Yes, you are right, if I had an other CPU, I would be faster..

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by pirke86 View Post
    Its a little cold here so i used an electric heater to warm up the electronics.
    an suddenly it worked!
    After all, I can still see two reasons for this:
    1) Weak capacitors on CPU or RAM board !
    The first thing I would do is to check the capacitors on the CPU board. They become weak during time. That's pretty bad, as they are neccessary for a stable voltage and current(!) for CPU and RAM. To check the main power supply only (means the voltage coming from the power supply) is NOT enough. Even, when measuring the voltage directly near the CPU, it's hard to detect current problems caused by weak capacitors.

    So: Take a decent look to the bigger electrolytic capacitors on the CPU board. Sometimes, you might notice, that the top of the capacitor has a bulge. That's a perfect indicator, that they are gone ! But even when they look like new, they often have lost a big part of their capacitance and could easily lead to problems, you describe.

    I would suggest to get a skilled electronic/computer hobbyist and let him do the soldering work, as unskilled people could ruin a CPU board with ease ! He instead can also identify these electrolytic capacitors, which should be replaced (it's not recommended to replace all capacitors - and it's not neccessary to replace all electrolytic capacitors !) and he can take enough care, handling a multi layer CPU board ...

    Quote Originally Posted by pirke86 View Post
    i also shaked the machine a little because i've moved it a bit, so it could also be the ic's that got their connection back.
    2.) Contact problems
    There are a lot of connections on a machine like this, not only at the RAMs, and I doubt, that you shaked the machine so toughly, that the (lightweight) RAMs moved at all in their sockets ... (but the heavier boards or backplane might have !).

    So get out all the boards and plugs near the CPU, RAM and video card and push them in (and out) again and again to get rid of the oxide layers on the contacts. You might do the same (but only once or twice) with the RAMs, if they are socketed.

    But I doubt, that this is the only problem, you got. The possibility for bad capacitors is pretty high, but there are still other options for defects: bad soldering on CPU board, defective ICs on CPU or video board, bad connection between CPU and grafics card and last, but not least problems of the monitor itself or its connection etc. etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by kiss
    If the RAM installed had had any problem, the controller should have been able to "wake up" and inform me about that the RAMs have problem.
    In most cases, this is true. But I would not bet on this !


    Greetings Jogi
    ________________
    You haven't failed, until you've given up !

  5. #25
    I changed the condensators and washed in the CPU card before, but did not change the situation
    have You got any idea?

    thanks

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by kiss View Post
    I changed the condensators and washed in the CPU card before, but did not change the situation
    have You got any idea?
    Might be a bad Reset of the CPU after Power On - or - a defective video card ...

    If you are lucky, it's only a bad connection from the video card to the monitor - who knows ? So try this by checking the video signal directly at the video cards output, if possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by kiss View Post
    ...and washed in the CPU card
    I hope, you did NOT "wash" the CPU board f.e. with normal water ! If so, you have to redo this with demineralized water - and be very careful !


    Greetings Jogi
    ________________
    You haven't failed, until you've given up !

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    197
    Sably it seems as I'm in the same situation here. I have had problems with my spindle drive ( Simoreg DC). Yesterday when I started up the machine this strange screen.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Screen.jpg  

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    0
    Hi!

    Did anyone ever find what caused the "krix-krax screen"? I'm facing the same problem now.
    IC-bases are cleaned and all electrolytes I could find are replaced. The problem seems to occur only after running the machine for 1-2 hours when the machine freezes and is rebooted.

    Regards,
    The Jorm

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    197
    I did not find a solution so I ended up buying all controller cards used from a newer machine. That costed me a lot of money. The controller start up and seems to work fine but I can't get my original IO cards to work I get the message " IO card does not respond". I switched to a newer IO card and now I don't have any error from the IO card anymore. But this card has another D sub connector and I don't have any drawing of the pin configuration so I pretty stucked with a machine that don't work ( But the screen is OK :tired

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    0
    Did you ever scope the 5V line of your controller?
    The machine posts exactly the same screen when one pulls out the CPU board. My controller gives the "checkerboard screen" after circa 1-2 hours so I have the opportunity to pull cards out and rule out working components.

    The machine seems to give a too high voltage on the unregulated 5V line when connected to a modern 400 system voltage with a 230V phase voltage. It also seems to be cranky with the smoothing caps on the power supply as the line is rather messy. I assumed, when starting the search for a fault, that the controller uses the nice, regulated 5Vp line of the PSU but it doesn't. The voltage on the Vcc pin of the processor and all other equipment on the CPU board is the same messy line that comes off the +5V line which jumps between 5,0 and 5,5V on my machine. It really should be atleast within 0,1V for trustworthy operation and many components require it to be 0,25V from 5,0V at maximum.

    I really think this is a power supply issue and will post later this afternoon when caps are switched and voltage is regulated down.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    197
    No I have never tried to see my 5V in a scope. But Whit my new memory card and CPU card and graphics card I still run on the same powers suply so If there was a fault on the power suply it should still show the same behavior. So I could be interesting to do a test with a scope to compare with your messurements.

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