[MaNo]

.............Any cabinetmakers out there who can advise based on their experience with a cnc router?

In our business we are only really putting patterns on 1200 x 2700mm boards and then cutting them to size. Some have cutouts for inlaid mirrors but even then we only use 3 or 4 different bits per board, but for the operator it does become a bit of a chore manually changing and then z zeroing the bits, especially when he has to machine about 25 boards each day.

Rocket.

Hi Rocket, I think you will find that in general 6 tools are plenty. Like you, I use only 3 or 4 tools per job. Mostly 3, though.

For one-of jobs, or maybe 2 or even 3 of the same, I do the changes manually, i.e. I don't use an ATC tooolpath but it's still VERY convenient to remove and insert the next tool holder with appropriate tool. You still need to zero each tool of course, but you have to do that anyway if you use the full feature of the ATC. Mind you, in the latter case you only do it once if you use the same tools day in day out.

I have a 6-tool rack type ATC and the rack lives at the far end of the Y axis. If I were to buy an other machine I would still buy it with ATC but would seriously look at the carousel type ATC....the one that travels with the gantry. Tool changes are a fair bit faster that way.

To get back to your question.... I think 6-tool ATC will do most, if not all of your jobs

[CNC Mate]

Tool holder & how many tools;

depents what you do at cnc machine (also the different materials you cut, and thickness, down cut, etc...)

For my usage; I leave all in 10-toolholder & drill head.

1.
in enroute software you must not forget to change them if you do.

2.
you have to change them at cnc self and be sure you put tool at same place as you have selected in enroute software, and remember all the tool offsets; lengths, etc...

Therefore i would not want less at my machine

[Butterknife]

Tool holder & how many tools;

depents what you do at cnc machine (also the different materials you cut, and thickness, down cut, etc...)

For my usage; I leave all in 10-toolholder & drill head.

1.
in enroute software you must not forget to change them if you do.

2.
you have to change them at cnc self and be sure you put tool at same place as you have selected in enroute software, and remember all the tool offsets; lengths, etc...

Therefore i would not want less at my machine

I totally agree with CNC Mate. If the option is open to get 10 tools, do so. Unless you are talking about using a rotary type toolchanger, the initial cost can't be that different than it would be for less tools... and the hastle it saves by not having to change and re-zero tools will pay off many, many times over.

Heck, if you have room, go for 12. You don't have to fill the holders if you don't need them.

Also as CNC Mate says, your tool numbers have to match in your CAD/CAM to the position they are going to sit in. I know some software just allows you to number the tools, but as he says, in EnRoute you have to put them in the exact same order in the software as they are on the machine.

[-Niky-]

Hello everybody.

First i would like to thank everyone for great info on CNC.
I have read a couple of threads about buying CNC and i have decided to buy my first CNC from Taney.

But becouse i have never bought a CNC machine, i would like to ask for everyones opinions and sugestions.

I intend to buy a K1212 with:
-2,2 kW Water Cooled Spindle
-Vacuum table
-Air Cooled Vacuum Pump
-Dust Extractor
-Z Zero Sensor
-DSP Control System
-ER 20 collet
-if possible everything with 3 phase wiring (CNC, Vacuum Pump, Dust Extractor).

CNC will be used to cut Acrilic and MDF sheets, so I am not sure what kind of Vacuum Pump i need and how powerful.
Same for the Dust Extractor, i have no idea how much power is enough to keep my workspace clean.

Did I forget anything? Sugestions and recommendations are welcome, thank you.

Nik

[matt382]

Hi,

First off, thank you guys for taking the time write about your experiences. It has been really helpful for me thus far.

I'm getting ready to purchase a K30MT/1224. Only have Single Phase available, so I think this is the best machine for me. I want to be able to load a full size sheet of plywood on it, and this will just handle it.

Do I need a computer at the machine to run it? Or do you load your G-code onto some sort of thumb drive that you install on the machine? Specs say that it has USB 2.2, but I don't know what that means. All I can find online talks about USB 2.0.

Also, Taney listed 2 prices for the shipping to Los Angeles. One is for a 20' container at $2000. The second is LCL for $385. I guess I have a choice in this? If so, why would anybody choose the more expensive?

All the best,
Matt

[matt382]

Hi,

First off, thank you guys for taking the time write about your experiences. It has been really helpful for me thus far.

I'm getting ready to purchase a K30MT/1224. Only have Single Phase available, so I think this is the best machine for me. I want to be able to load a full size sheet of plywood on it, and this will just handle it.

Do I need a computer at the machine to run it? Or do you load your G-code onto some sort of thumb drive that you install on the machine? Specs say that it has USB 2.2, but I don't know what that means. All I can find online talks about USB 2.0.

Also, Taney listed 2 prices for the shipping to Los Angeles. One is for a 20' container at $2000. The second is LCL for $385. I guess I have a choice in this? If so, why would anybody choose the more expensive?

All the best,
Matt

Well, my morning is shot, but I read the entire thread and learned a bit that I should have before I posted! I'll get some thumb drives to use in the DSP.

Do you guys think a 1224 is the way to go since I normally cut 4x8 sheets of plywood? The Quick website shows the work area will just barely clear that, but not sure if there is enough fudge factor. I can upgrade to the 1325 and then downgrade the spindle to a 3kw for use in single phase electric if needed.

As far as shipping goes, Taney is showing me a price of shipping:
K30MT/1224: 355+25(AMS)+615(truck)=$995.
That is supposed to be to my doorstep. Any other charges that I need to know about for US customers?

All the best,
Matt

[jasonharris22]

Matt, I am looking at the 1325. I think it will be a real squeeze for me space wise but I will have to live with that because I think I would regret later having a smaller machine.

I did thing about the k30mt1212 becaue it still cuts a full sheet but the actual machine size was the same from the specs. So, if it wasnt taking up any less shop space I thought the 1325 would be a little better.

is the 1325 not available in single phase? I thought just the vacuum's etc needed 3 phase. You could put a smaller 2.2kw spindle on it which will run off single phase no problems.

[rocket67]

Well, my morning is shot, but I read the entire thread and learned a bit that I should have before I posted! I'll get some thumb drives to use in the DSP.

Do you guys think a 1224 is the way to go since I normally cut 4x8 sheets of plywood? The Quick website shows the work area will just barely clear that, but not sure if there is enough fudge factor. I can upgrade to the 1325 and then downgrade the spindle to a 3kw for use in single phase electric if needed.

As far as shipping goes, Taney is showing me a price of shipping:
K30MT/1224: 355+25(AMS)+615(truck)=$995.
That is supposed to be to my doorstep. Any other charges that I need to know about for US customers?

All the best,
Matt

Hi Matt, Yes- The 1300 x 2500 size will be much better for you and your idea of using a single phase 3kw spindle is spot on. My 1200 x 2400 machine had the 3kw single phase spindle which was excellent to use. You do need a motor rated cicuit breaker. Forget the size we used - but the info is way back in this thread.

It would pay you to check what the USA Port and Clearance fees will be. A phone call to a local Customs Broker would be wise as they will have that info. They could also advise if you are better off with LCL freight or your own 20ft Container.

Have not been on the Forum much lately, mainly because we have moved factories, had some holidays and now having an extremely busy period at work. I do plan to take the 600 x 1000 machine back to work so that i can get some use out of it. Always too busy at home with paperwork. Also need to fine tune my skills with the programming. I see Vectric have released an Update with V Carve Pro - better check into it.

Thanks for the replies aboiut the Auto Tool Changer - we will buy our next new machine some time this year.

Rocket.

[jasonharris22]

Guys, I have been looking at the 1325 as these machines look to be very good value.

I will be replacing my current one that has a 1400x1220 cutting area which I do all manual clamping to the tslots or screwing in to mdf clamped to the spoilboard etc. Thats what I am used to with no experience with vacuum tables or anything other than mach3.

This is the old one http://gallery.me.com/jason.jane#100...&bgcolor=black
as you can see I built it so I am not worried about learning curves etc of different equipment.

The only problem comes from not knowing the different aspects of these machines, e.g. vacuum pumps, electronics etc.

I think I would be happy with the DSP as long as it does anything I might do with my vectric software and from what I have seen it would be fine with that. I know how to convert it over if I ever want to control it with mach3.

I have only seen one or maybe two people on this thread upgrade their steppers to servos, I guess it's not all that neccessary?

I am in this quandary, the machine looks like a good price but it's not cheap enough to accept it going bad on you to fast. That has me thinking are there parts that I should upgrade to better quality now. It's funny, sometimes you only want to spend $5k but then when you decide you will spend $10 you decide its worth spending even more to insure your larger investment!

I don't want to spend more if I don't have to but I am prepared to think about it.

The airpump has me thinking about this too, there is cheap, more expensive and then another jump. I know I don't want a water unit but is the jump from say a 480CMB/h unit to a more expensive 160CBM/h fan cooled vacuum worth the upgrade, or throw a lot more on top again for a 260cbm/h fan cooled unit..

What are they doing for me? I would love to hear peoples experiences with these units when using the full or partial table and what thickness of spoil board you are using on the vacuum table.

Then there is the final thing, the spindle. I have a chinese 2.2kw watercooled unit on my current machine. Wow, what a godsend these things are over a noisy air blowing your dust everywhere router.

Now I am confused because it seems the better spindles are the air cooled spindles. Is this like a traditional router blowing air over the bearings and making sure all the dust cut is going everywhere?

Why are they preferred over water cooling?

A few things to figure out but I can't wait until it's all decided

Thanks,
Jason

[eshev]

Hi everyone! Got our machine running, everything is working beautiful. The only thing I will have to get is a postprocessor as our machine is a 3 spindle, the XYZ coordinates change for everyone of them. I think with type 3 soft, I have the postprocessor but not for other software. The syntec seems to be pretty easy to understand, took us a couple of evenings to get the machine running. I think it would still be easier, if there would be a user friendly manual on how to operate it..
(My first job being cut: windowsills, to go on top of old tiled ones, so they had to be carved out from the inside..)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeDMTj7OwFs]Quick K45 mt-3 - YouTube[/ame]

[lovro14]

Hello!

I've been checking this forum for a while and now I finally decided to write you. I'm on the market for CNC router and I have some questions.

First off; I've already contacted the company and changed some emails but still want to talk to you guys, because you use their CNC's on a daily basis. You mostly need their machines for milling wood but anyway...

The machine that suits my needs the best is K6100A, but with Z-axis working area of 300 mm. Guys at Quick said that Z axis working area is not a problem.

I need the machine mostly for milling moulds (molds are used for pouring polyurethane).
Molds are usually made of plastics or in some cases aluminium.
Milling plastics should not be a problem but aluminium...i do not know.
The machine is not going to run every day, but more like 1 or 2 days a week.

So my big question is; with this machine could it be possible to mill aluminium. Aluminium is much harder material, therefore cutting forces are much bigger so the deformations of the structure could be a bit of a problem if you want to achieve good accuracy.

The other factor are vibrations, because they affect both accuracy and surface quality. And for creating molds, surface does matter. I don't expect the surface quality to be the same as with professional CNC machines, but still don't want molds to have very distinct - deep ''scratches''.



So I'm just looking to get your opinion.

And yeah...you are mostly talking about a guy named Taney at Quick cnc co.
He seems like he is really helpful and responsive, so could somebody give me his email.

Thanks in advance for help!





P.S.: sorry for my english! ...not my native language!

[matt382]

Thank you Rocket for your advice! I've started a Word doc and I'm cutting and pasting all the comments that I think may be valuable in getting this thing going. Hoping to fill-in the gaps where the manuals are lacking.

After much debate I am going to pull the trigger on the bigger 1325 machine and downgrade the spindle to the 3kw water. Shop space is at a premium for me, but I just don't want to regret going with the smaller machine and then fighting tight clearance on the table. This was an option that is not listed on the Quick website, but was offered by Taney when I notified him that I did not have 3-phase available.

Taney has been very diligent in answering my questions. I'm working with a broker in Los Angeles that is taking care of the items on this side of the water.

I've installed Vectric Carve Pro on my laptop and started to fool around with that. I've watched most of the video tutorials on their site and this software appears to suit my application to a tee!

Matt

[firestang]

After seeing and reading about the Quick machines, our work has decided to go that route and get the costings on purchasing one. We have been quoted
$3800 for the machine from Quick and we are working with in import company to bring it in that we deal with.

ill let you all know what the end cost will be.

but when you consider the cost of the CNC Shark pro plus from carba-tec for 6 k its like chalk and cheese in costs really.

[jasonharris22]

Carbatec dont sell them in NZ. What size is the Jinan one?

[aarggh]

After We have been quoted
$3800 for the machine from Quick and we are working with in import company to bring it in that we deal with.

but when you consider the cost of the CNC Shark pro plus from carba-tec for 6 k its like chalk and cheese in costs really.

Good luck with your machine, no doubt there will be some minor issues or annoyances, but on the whole they are very workable and pretty damn good value.

As surprised as I was seeing the construction given the cost for the Shark in Carbatec when I started looking, I think the only thing that would surprise me more would be if someone actually bought it. $6k off the shelf without any tooling is right in the stratosphere!

cheers,
Ian

[jasonharris22]

Just looked it up on the Aus site. Yep, that is a wee little thing for the price.

I forgot that some CNC's dont come with spindles, it would be a real noisy bugger as well.

One thing it has got in it's favor, not that it makes it attractive at that price, is that it has vcarve pro with it. That is a $600usd purchase if you want it. I have it and it's nice to use.

[NIWTWH]

Hi All

This is my first post here as I have been considering buying a Quick machine. The information here has been very helpful thanks to all who have contributed.

I am considering a K30MT 1218 with 4.5KW spindle for cutting composites. Does anyone have any feedback or experience with this machine? Will this spindle run OK from single phase power?

Firestang where are you located I will be interested to here how you go with port fees etc. I am in Queensland.

Larry

[jasonharris22]

I would expect that this spindles controller would want 3 phase. The ones at 2.2 and maybe three come with inverters that accept single phase but I dont think you can do it with a >4kw spindle.

Thats something like 20 amps off a 230v circuit.

[NIWTWH]

Here is the reply I got when I put the question to Ally, who has been very good to communicate with but I worry about details being lost in translation sometimes. I was told it would only require 8 amps, doesnt seem enough for that power but Im not familiar with how the invertor works.

1.Can you confirm if the 4.5KW spindle runs on single phase 240V power?

If not can I have a price for the K1218 with 3KW spindle or largest power spindle that can run on 240V single phase power.

As you mentioned, we'd like to recommend you the following machine configuration:

CNC ROUTERS K30MT/1218
Working Area 1200mm X1800mm,
German Ball Screw,
Taiwan Linear Rail,
DSP 0501 Control System,
4.5kw Water Cooling Spindle,
square rails,
Type 3 software,
Single phase 240V ( You'd better to add the voltage stabilizer for 240V in your factory. )

Thoughts or experiences will be greatly appreciated.

[aarggh]

Here is the reply I got when I put the question to Ally, who has been very good to communicate with but I worry about details being lost in translation sometimes. I was told it would only require 8 amps, doesnt seem enough for that power but Im not familiar with how the invertor works.

1.Can you confirm if the 4.5KW spindle runs on single phase 240V power?

If not can I have a price for the K1218 with 3KW spindle or largest power spindle that can run on 240V single phase power.

As you mentioned, we'd like to recommend you the following machine configuration:

CNC ROUTERS K30MT/1218
Working Area 1200mm X1800mm,
German Ball Screw,
Taiwan Linear Rail,
DSP 0501 Control System,
4.5kw Water Cooling Spindle,
square rails,
Type 3 software,
Single phase 240V ( You'd better to add the voltage stabilizer for 240V in your factory. )

Thoughts or experiences will be greatly appreciated.

8 Amps really doesn't sound right for a 4.5kW 240v spindle to me (that's around 18amp peak)? As others have mentioned, I haven't heard of a spindle greater than around 2.2kW using 240V, even with the greatest of efficiency with VFD's. If it is around 18amp peak, in a factory you'll be right with 20amp feeds, but don't forget too that idle and working current draw can be very different, and if you take into account dust extraction, usually 2.4kW, the water pump, up to half an amp or so, lighting, the power supplying the actual computer, controllers, and motors, then you could be dimming the lights in the street every time you power on :devious:

cheers,
Ian