[gremac]

Hi

Just want to give some info about my experience as a machinist first.

I have most experience with Okuma machines. We were one of the first in Europe to own a Multus with P200 control. It was a B-300W with lots of options and software errors:boxing:. I think we got 3-4 software upgrades the first year.
Since that point i have been operating 5 different multus machines of different sizes, and been programming with edgecam all the time. I also have experience with lots of different Makino, Mazak, Hermle - 3-5 axis mills, lathes and EDM's.

Now we are about to invest in a couple of new machines. Multifunctional lathes with mill tower and two chuck is the minimum. We are going to use it for some prototyping, some massproduction of advanced parts. Seldom run programs under 4-5MB's. Accuracy and speed with the combination of raw power are needed.
Multus B400-W is the right size, but we already have one, and there are lots of things about it i don't like. Some listed below:
- Y axis limitations when working in front near center
- Weight limitations from 180KGish with chuck on standard and 360ish kg on big bore?
- Weak m-spindle. We have the extra strong one with 20KW and ???Nm.
- Weak turret

Macturns are not an option for other reasons...

What i have been thinking of lately is a WFL millturn model. Heard great stuff about them except price, but i haven't spoke with anyone with actual experience with WFL versus others...


Anyone here with actual experience from WFL machines or other models which will match them? Experience with okumas and others are really preferred. Price examples are also welcomed

[underthetire]

Mori Seiki. The new NT series are very nice.

[Superman]

What about a mill /turn 5-axis Okuma MU500 ?

[straggleweed]

i have learned that when you look at the power ratings for an okuma you need to figure that you will only get about 1/3 of what it is actually rated for. i have the same complaints about my okumas as you. although mine are lathes they have the same problems that you describe. they lack rigidity, if i break an insert all of the tools will be knocked off by a few thousandths. M-spindle has absoutly no power. my old okuma e-series lathe with 7hp has more power on the main spindle that my captain l470m with 30hp.
you can take a 40hp mazak and a 40hp okuma and the mazak will wipe the floor with it. my p200 control likes to skip blocks in the program too thats always exciting. oh ya and the bolt that hold the turret to the cross slide have to be tightend down every month or so. We recently moved into a new shop and when we moved all of the machines the floor under all of the okumas were stained beyond fixing due to every fluid the things hold leaking out all over floor. we have to keep some oil absorbant pads all the way around the okumas and change them every week or so. the mazaks are very clean and there wasnt a drop of anything on the floor when we moved them.



i also feel much more comfortable putting an operator on a mazak than an okuma just because the control on the mazak is so much more user friendly. the p200 just seems to be very primitive when compared to the matrix on the mazak. my okumas have been nightmares from the beginning and there will never be another one in my shop. we are in the process of going completely mazak.

so my vote for you is to look at the mazak intergrex. i dont have any experience with a Mori so i cant comment on them.

a mazak will be a warhorse and an okuma will be a shetland pony.

[budgieW]

I see the opposite here

[straggleweed]

might just be luck of the draw then.... I guess some are more suited for different kinds of work

[Goldorak]

we got 6 generations of okuma machines here, the new one , especially the L370MW captain are simply unable to do the job as it should

on the other side , our Crown lathe is literally a tank, .350 DOC in inconel 625 at .018IPR is noting on that machine. To compare, on the captain's sub .03DOC and .01 IPR it's about the maximum i can run safely.....in 1018 CRS

[SE_Okuma_tech]

Skip lines in the program????? Never seen that. hmmmmm

[gremac]

Never seen any of our okumas skip lines, so you might have that checked out. Have some experience with mazak highspeed machining center, and i like it very much. No one here that have experience with WFL machines?

[gremac]

Mazak integrex comes with 5axis simultaneous as basic? Or is it an option?

[DSL PWR]

Almost everything is an option on a Mazak. I'm surprised they don't charge extra for the e-stop button!

[budgieW]

I'm surprised they don't charge extra for the e-stop button!

Thats because you need it when it skips those lines

[OkumaWiz]

I've never seen an okuma skip lines EXCEPT when you are uploading/downloading thru RS-232 and your communications are not set up right. Then lines are blown during transmission and the Okuma detects them as you try to run it. Are you doing this by chance?

I'd have to admit, I've been disappointed with the Okuma's of late. The Cadet mate was a weak joke and the Cadet with 700U was a giant step backwards from the LB-15 of yesteryear. Their LT300 and MacTurn (same base) have HUGE linear guide and cover issues which they are still trying to fix.

The LT10 and LT200 are fairly decent machines, although the LT10 can take a hit much better due to the box ways. The same holds true for the LT15 and LT25.

Mori does build some pretty decent Iron, but the control/servo technology is lagging due to being all fanuc'd up. ;-) (that should generate some hate mail...)

Yes you will need to watch clearance on your mac turn and multus machines. Yikes!


Best of luck! Long live the LC series!

[jamessiffel]

Completely agree with you budgiew.

[fordav11]

hmmm, our company just bought a Macturn (ships in 2-3 months).
I won't be running it but interesting to hear they have issues.
Does anyone know if the current Macturn model shipping with OSP-300L is good/bad/ugly?

[underthetire]

Wiz, that used to be the case, but with Mapps and alpha i motors I'd take a fanuc any day, and I learned on an okuma. Okuma electronics have always been nice to use, but weak. And how much to replace a 2000's vacIII unit now? Oh ya, over 10k since Okuma won't support it any longer. I can still get 80's fanuc drives exchanged.

[jamessiffel]

Our one macturn had way covers crumple, major moo lag for replacements. We are getting a new macturn in a few months also. I think you have to order it with the p300. I think. The new Multus's come standard with it. Same with the cas system.

[fordav11]

we had a VACIII replaced a few weeks ago.
Okuma quoted $18k for new unit. Luckily they had an exchange unit available for ~$5k so we took it.

[zooloader]

The WFL machines look awesome! I would LOVE to have one.
This shop I think will be avoiding any more Okuma machines for a long time.
Our MA400H (E100) is a weapon, but the Mac 250W and Multus B300W have been disappointing and frustrating (both P200).
We chose a Mori over the Mazak for our last machine and are pleased with it.

good luck.

[jamessiffel]

Totally curious as to how where the macturn and multus disappointing ? Especially the p200! Not challenging you, just very curious because where I'm at we have both them, I run the macturn 250w, so I'm aware of the pros and cons. The multus b300w is right next to me, so I get to see the pros and cons on that one too.