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  1. #1

    Chinese made Laser cutting machines

    Hi everyone. This is my first post so please bear with me. I am looking at maybe purchasing a laser cutting machine to produce wooden inlays to incorporate into the guitars I build for a living and was wondering if anyone out there has had any experience with Chinese made machines? I've looked at the more expensive European and American models but I can't justify the outlay for the amount of work I would use the machine for. (Great machines none the less!) The Chinese machines I've seen on the net look quite good but buying directly from China is like buying a car without test driving first. I would be looking at a bed size no smaller than 750mm X 450mm. Any recommendations would be gratefully accepted.
    Many thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    9
    Hi Friend, do not worry too much for Chinese laser. Many foreginers said goods made-in-china are not good. But that's not correct. In any countries, there will be good and bad quality one. Just try please, so suppliers from China is waiting for your choosing. You are the decision maker.

    If you need any information about Chinese laser, welcome to contact me. Of course I hope you will buy machine from me cause I am manufacturer www.hflaser.com ---even not, I would like to be help.

    Vikki

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1258
    Hi aussiejohn, welcome to the forum.

    Have you looked at http://www.reddotmachinery.com.au/ to see if they have something in your budget? They appear to be reselling Chinese systems, so I wouldn't compare them to major brands but at least they could provide some support. I've seen others on the board discuss them so you could probably do a search and find more information.

    If you just want the cheapest system possible, then a Chinese system would work fine. Just understand you will have to do the installation, setup and learn the software/system on your own. There could be some minor problems during setup, usually caused by shipping. They and normally easy to correct, but don't expect it to be plug and play - although you may find it is.

    Although I may not completely agree with Vikki's post, I would check out www.hflaser.com and www.hxlaser.com (RabbitLaser) to get quotes - just make sure they include all shipping costs and expect to pay duty on top.

    Zax.

  4. #4

    Thanks for replies so far

    Hi Zax and Vikki,
    Thanks for the support! Yes, I have seen Red dot Machines website and have contacted them but they are interstate. ( I think a trip over is on the cards!) I was really hoping to get advice from present owners, not necessarily from the dealers! I do appreciate your comments though Vikki, thank you. Some of the work I want to do with this machine is very fine. I suppose what I really need is confirmation that any purchase would be able to cope with fine detail cutting. (mainly in 0.5mm veneers but also up to 5.0mm wood). For example, have a look at an American guitar makers site http://www.olsonguitars.com/shop_laser.html to see the sort of thing I want this machine for. Especially the rosettes. I have seen Trotec's machine in operation and was VERY impressed, but the $36,000 price tag is way beyond my budget. I have seen on You tube videos of Chinese models but they were not showing "finer" work being done. I might have to post a photo or two of some work which was done for me on a Universal Laser as a demonstration of the sort of result I am after. I am aware I will probably have to play around with any machine I get, just so long as the machine is ultimately capable with my demands with a little coaxing! And I must admit, for the relatively small outlay I have been quoted, I am sorely tempted to go ahead anyway! Thanks again,
    John.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1258
    John, that shouldn't be too difficult for any laser - Chinese made machines included.

    Here are some suggestions to look for:

    1. XY resolution / Positioning accuracy - the best systems can achieve a couple of microns compared to some Chinese brand that are 10 microns (0.01mm) or worse. Some manufacturers specify steps per inch, 16000 would be 1.5 micron resolution. Be careful as resolution could mean a theoretical calculated accuracy based on the motor and drive system, where as a true positional accuracy should be the systems repeatability (includes 'play' in the drive). The US brands usually achieve better than quoted, compared to the Chinese systems that MAY meet their spec on some machines but not all.

    2. Lenses - you'll likely need 2, the shorter focal length (look for 25-50mm) would produce the smallest beam for your more intricate work but it's depth of field is shallow so would only be suitable for thin veneers. A typical 50-75mm focal length lens would be your multi-purpose lens for cutting 5mm wood.

    3. Higher power lasers (>60W) have a larger un-focussed beam, which is more difficult to focus to a usable small spot size.

    4. Air assist is essential but you need to consider the table design and method of material hold down.

    Zax.

  6. #6
    Thanks Zax,

    Your info is very much appreciated, you obviously know your stuff! I'm particularly looking at this machine, below here is the link. I would really appreciate your opinion if you would be so kind. (I hope I am not breaking this sites protocol here by displaying this info). I'll also get onto posting a photo of what I want to do with this machine.

    http://xyz-tech.en.alibaba.com/produ...raver_CE_.html

    This forum has a wealth of knowledge, I am really impressed with some of the content, and not only in this section. I am learning a lot! Thanks everyone.

    John.

  7. #7
    Not sure if this has worked!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails headstock.jpg  

  8. #8

    Photo of inlay work on 0.5 thick veneer

    You may be able to see in the photo what I want to do with this machine. Is this photo clear enough to get an idea of what I want to achieve?

    Thanks in advance for any reply,

    John.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    776
    I am afraid that with chinese lasers will be problematic make such jobs.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1258
    Litografa, why do you say that?

    The correct software should make such an inlay fairly simple. It could be done in Corel with manual setup, by placing an outline on the design the width of the beam (spot size) for the background.

    Zax.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1258
    John,

    The 6090 machine in your link would be a good choice, although I don't have any direct experience with XYZ. I'd say they are very similar to the other Jinan based companies (since they would all be using basically the same components). Pre-sales communication would give you an idea of the company, and I would also make a technical enquiry to see how they respond.

    Zax.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    776
    First of all - everything is IMHO
    There is two kinds of laser owners here - first is LASER-BUSINESS and second is LASER-HOBBY. If it's necessary do 1-2-3 jobs like on picture - it's HOBBY and Chinese laser can do that.
    If John want make business - I afraid business with Chinese lasers will be problematic. Reasons:
    1) Software. Very often output dimensions are not the same as file dimensions. In jobs like inlays this is important.
    2) Size of laser dot. Optical components (glass tube, mirrors and lens) give on table laser dot bigger than RF laser.
    3) Mechanical precision. If precision usually is OK from beginning, on many Chinese lasers precision goes down dramatically after first 3-6 months.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    9
    Hi aussiejohn
    I and several other members on this forum have dealt with xyz and I have the 9060 so I may be of some help. To start with I found them to be very helpful and they were easy to get hold of either by email, online or phone. Have had my laser now for 2 years and never had any problems. There was confusion at the start because the software they had installed on the machine did not match the software they sent me for loading on my computer. So this resulted in several emails and calls to China. The folks on CNC Zone were responsible with helping me sort out the problems encountered. The setting up is not hard but I must admit getting all the lens lined up and focussed does take alot of time, patience and lots of paper. Not too sure even now if I have them spot on but I do get the job done. I have a 80 watt and done acrylic and wood cutting, alot of wood engraving, I also do photo engraving on marble and wood etc. Must admit I have never had to do any cutting with the fine detail you looking at doing. Not sure if I have the lens set up well enough to pull it off either. If you have a small file you would like me to try I could do something. BTW I used my own freight agents but everthing came very well packed from xyz. You will also discover that most of the models are the same from most of the Chinese companies just a name change or a slight difference here and there. So choose very carefully if you go down that route and ensure you are able to get hold of them for support and spares. Better if they have a reliable agent in you home country. There are alot of guys that have been burnt with China. If I had the money I would have gone with an epilog, universal etc but hey I cann't knock my laser from China, it does everything I need to. Infact I have several different machines now from China and they all do their jobs as required, but I really did do my homework on the companies before I sent them a cent. I have not had to deal with xyz for sometime now but they still drop me the odd email and I sometimes have the odd skype chat with them for fun. Good luck.
    BTW check out this thread, the guys there use Chinese lasers and they could be of help as well. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48069

  14. #14
    Hi Josywales,

    Thanks for the info. I am looking at a few options right now, the guy's (and girls') posting on this site have been fantastic with their responses. There really is a wealth of knowledge here. Thanks to all!
    I intend to follow a lead on a machine given to me by a "fellow poster" I'll keep this thread informed as time goes by as to how it all pans out.
    Of course, any other suggestions or advice regarding lasers would always be welcomed.
    John.

  15. #15
    I have a JW Weike LC6090 80w laser that from the sounds of what you have been hearing should just not be able to do the job but I think my system could do it quite well. My system is at least 2 yrs old and has cut for well over 1200hrs, most of it on my last $350 laser tube. I have engraved glass, marble, leather and wood. I can easily cut up to 1/4" wood, up to 3/4" of acrylic and 1/8" leather in a single pass. I may be able to go thicker on these but these are the thickest I have tried. I can cut the finest paper or thin cardboard and the cuttings can be blown out with a light breath.

    Are the Chinese lasers perfect, not by a long shot. The manuals are near useless being written in Chinglish, translated by someone who definitely has little or no written use of English. All the words in a sentence may indeed be English but they often make NO sense whatsoever. The tech support is also wanting but at least JW Weike who I bought mine from always has techs online on MSN, so questions can be answered and due to the wonder of different time zones they magically appear online about the time I start playing with my laser in the evening.

    The software itself is in a word bad, but you can learn to work around the problems. I use the Corel 12 drivers and it works well enough for it to do everything I have asked of it. Sometimes you shake your head and wonder why it does something the way it does, but I get over it and within a few minutes I have figured out how to make it do what I want.

    The Chinese parts are well built, overbuilt in fact. I have bearings on this thing large enough to be car bearings! The case is made not of think aluminum or even thin sheet steel, it's bloody plate steel!

    I have lost two tubes to breakage and two power supplies as well (running at 100% power), so buy spare parts. Lenses wear out so get a few extras of those as well. I have found that by running at 85%-90% power I seemed to have stopped my tubes from prematurely failing. My current tube has about 700 hrs on it and it's working fine.

    As has been said if you are a full business that will rely on your laser to only generate cash and you don't have any tech skills I'd go with a domestic laser. However, if you can add memory to your PC, maybe install a new video card and feel comfortable tinkering with stuff and want to save a PILE of cash then a Chinese laser just might be for you.

    I'll probably order a second one soon and I'll probably order from the same folks again

    Thanks
    Mike
    www.classicplayfields.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1258
    Mike,

    I agree 100%, and can tell you the expensive major brands aren't free from issues either.

    I worked as an engineer for one of the largest CNC router and laser manufacturers for over 10 yrs, and spent several years as a field service engineer doing installations, training and repairs. The components aren't that different, the build quality gap is closing fast the only significant deltas are software, support and documentation. Oh, and the price but that's one for the Chinese systems!

    They aren't just 'hobby' machines, but perhaps not suited to a large business either but fit well in a small businesses especially owner operated where you are willing to put in some time to save a bunch of money.

    Zax.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    16
    I have this laser cutter/engraver from laserworld.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-40w-50...d=p3286.c0.m14

    The quality of the machine is very impresive, I used to work making PCB board testing equipment that requires a strong chassis for our needle bed, and I was surprise that the chassis of my laser is superior of the ones we bought for our test units.

    On this machine 95% of the screws are in stainless steel, everything looks good quality, it has a LED track for lighting, not a cheap bulb like others, the mirrors and lens holders are good quality.

    The bed raises by motor and goes down enought to fit a 12cm object.

    I also have the rotary piece for it, and it looks identical to the rotary piece from Acuris lasers.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    11
    cdesigns,

    I am trying to decide between the model you bought and a unit made by XYZ tech. Can you fill me in a bit more on the coletech? how long have you owned it? how would you rate the software it comes bundled with? how hard/easy was it to calibrate when compared to other units? any other user experiences would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks,
    cheech

  19. #19
    I'd look pretty closely at the JW Weike LC6090. There are several forum members here that have them and overall I think we are a pretty happy bunch with our gear.

    I have heard of people who bought other and not necessarily cheaper units wanting/needing to replace mirror mounts, and other components. Of not having the ability to raise and lower either end of the tube independently or even to move it at all. Our machines are set up with very good mechanical pieces and I'd definitely buy the same machine again even after 2 years of use. In fact I probably will in the not too distant future. I have seen the parts guys are buying to replace their inferior ones on their machines and I'd still say the ones that came in ours are far better than the replacement ones they are buying!

    If the LC6090 is too large they do have a full line so I'd take a look at them.
    www.classicplayfields.com

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyGuy007 View Post
    If the LC6090 is too large they do have a full line so I'd take a look at them.
    FlyGuy, do you have a link you can post for their site? I did some google searching and didn't turn up anything useful.

    thanks,
    -cheech

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