[Andre09]

Hello to everyone on the forum.

My stats show that I have been a member here on the forum for over 3 years and have yet to contibute. So here goes...

Let me introduce the K60MT CNC Router manufactured By the Jinan Quick CNC Company. This is my first ever purchase from China and the biggest purchase I have ever made from an overseas supplier.

I began the financial transaction with the manufacturer on 22/07/09 and the machine was delivered to my address in Melbourne on 02/10/09 (Approx. 72 days, but who's counting). Upon reflection, it doesn't seem like such a long time, but excitement,anxiety and some stress definately prolong the weeks...

When all was said and done,seeing the machine sitting in my shed, I can honestly say that I am very happy with my purchase...

I still have obstacles to overcome(big 3phase ones), but at least I know that the machine is real, that I have spent my money wisely and that when Its finally up and going, my imagination will be the only obstacle to anything I want to create...

If anyone is interested, I do have more to write on my experiences, good & bad ones, but for now, I'll upload some photos of the arrival of my machine and post again shortly.

Andre.

[cabnet636]

thats a big router!! please keep posting it helps all!!


crank it up!!

jim

[rocket67]

Hi Andre, Excellent photos, always good to see a new machine arrive.

Glad to see you posting, even though it took you 3 years to make the first one. Hope you make it a habit now!

Those crates are built very well - you will have plenty of scrap steel for projects.

The machine sure looks chunky! Your wait will have been worth it.

It would be great if you write of your experiences in purchasing, shipping, power requirements etc. Makes for interesting reading, and helps others that may be interested in buying a CNC Router.

Lots of photos too please.

Rocket.

[Rick Carter]

Like Rocket and Jim said, they are really excellent photos, intend to sneak some of them when you are absent, hope you don't mind :0 And yes! pls keep posting... shall continue...

[Andre09]

Before purchasing the K60MT, I was constantly looking for detailed photos of various Chinese Routers. It was difficult to get the kind of photos one would find useful from sales people in order to analyse the machine and see whether the design was to your liking. I was lucky enough to have been able to see in person an Excitech Machine(SHM 1325) here in Melbourne, and from then on, I was convinced about going the Chinese Route. Members of the forum such as Rocket67, Big S & many more have put up photos of their own machines which helped me immensely in deciding what kind of machine I wanted.

That being the case,its only fair that I post some of my own photos now that my machine has arrived so that others may also have a better insight into these machines. At the moment I can only comment on the physical appearance and build of the machine as power has not yet been connected. When I finally do get connected, I also hope to have the time to upload videos of my machine in operation, as this to me is the best way to get an understanding of a machines capabilities.

The photos in this post are of the machine structure and the different things that make up the machine. Enough talking, here come some photos...

Btw, I have not yet had the time to clean down the machine properly yet, so don't take too much notice of the dirt & grime. One of the slightly disappointing things was the that the machine wasn't very clean when it arrived. Things like the vacuum bed had alot of debris in the slots, such as electrical wiring etc.. There is also a paint spot on the bed and some oil, all of which is not a huge problem, but when you get a new machine, its a lot more pleasant to see it in a new state....

[Andre09]

Here are a few small videos I received from the manufacturer when the machine was nearing completion. They are not that interesting, but when you see your machine coming to life, it's a pretty exciting moment...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QttoXmcIaAc&feature=related"]YouTube - K60MT Factory Demo1[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygz8tDnSEAk&feature=player_profilepage"]YouTube - K60MT Factory Demo2[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2asqNd5jK2Y&feature=related"]YouTube - K60MT Factory Demo - Partial Build[/ame]

[rocket67]

Excellent thread Andre. Really enjoying your photos and videos.

You will find that the Lubrication System works very well. The pump lever on the canister should be operated only once a week. Do not go overboard with it or there will be oil dripping off the Z axis. I always place a bit of scrap under the Spindle area when the machine is not in use, as you will get drips of oil now and again.
With our first machine, i am always frustrated by the lack of operator applied Lubrication to the rails. On the Quick machine i quite often wipe the rails to avoid excessive Lubrication ( a much preferred situation! ).

It needs to be mentioned that we are buying these machines " Factory Direct ", at very low prices. The Chinese manufacturers are not big on Detailing the machines after manufacture, or providing extensive manuals.
Therefore, any intending purchasers need to be aware that the machines will arrive with swarf in some areas, maybe a little overspray from the painting and offcuts of wiring and washers in the bottom of the control cabinet.
So have some " Wax and Grease Remover " handy and give the whole machine a thorough cleaning. Also open the control cabinet and Vacuum the bottom of it, remove the side covers from the gantry and remove any swarf sitting in them. The savings are well worth a bit of " elbow grease "

Here is a superb comparison - Yesterday i received an Email from a Melbourne based CNC Router Business. They have just launched a marketing campaign for their new Mighty Boy CNC Router. It is a 1200 x 2400 machine, with 7 Station Auto Tool Changer, Vacuum System, and Dust Extraction. Installed, and with 3 days training it is $68,000.
For those requiring the "Gloss" it is probably a good buy.
However by importing our own machine from China - we are paying a lot less than half of this price! I would rather keep money in my bank account and do my own cleaning!
http://www.protechcnc.com.au/procamCNC.htm

Rocket.

[todd71]

"Here is a superb comparison - Yesterday i received an Email from a Melbourne based CNC Router Business. They have just launched a marketing campaign for their new Mighty Boy CNC Router. It is a 1200 x 2400 machine, with 7 Station Auto Tool Changer, Vacuum System, and Dust Extraction. Installed, and with 3 days training it is $68,000.
For those requiring the "Gloss" it is probably a good buy.
However by importing our own machine from China - we are paying a lot less than half of this price! I would rather keep money in my bank account and do my own cleaning!
http://www.protechcnc.com.au/procamCNC.htm"

For that price I guess I could over look the
violation of human rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China , lack of environmental regulation enforcement
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/95755
currency manipulation
http://www.time.com/time/politics/ar...ss-mostpopular
and having a state controlled media.
http://www.onthemedia.org/yore/trans...redpencil.html
On second though maybe not.
But my point is "What is the true "cost" of that discount?". A lot more than you seem to think.

Liberty for ALL,
Todd

[Andre09]

In Response to Todd71, I would have to say that I agree with the points that he is making. His suggestion is that by purchasing a CNC Router or anything else from China, I am a supporter of Human Rights violations and Environmental Destruction.

Indirectly I guess that I am, and for that I put my hand up. I have thought long and hard about buying from China. After seeing a full Sized $120,000 machine from Procam Australia at my previous employment, I can definately say that I would have preferred to keep my money within my own country.

Having said that, I am a hobbyist and more or less just someone working for the "Man", so financially it would be impossible for me to own such a machine. I am motivated to build my own machine, and had I known all the ins and outs of such a build, I probably would have gone down that route.

With the great spoils of American life, I'm not sure that you'd appreciate what it costs people in Australia to purchase things like CNC machinery. We have virtually no Used CNC market, only a handful of manufacturers and even if we were to build our own machines, everything would need to be imported, either from the US or somewhere in Asia.

So, what is a man to do.
I can sit in my lounge room and spend all of my days secluded away, watching documentaries with activists telling me how bad the current state of the world is, so that all hope of a decent life is drained from me, or I can accept that I am participating in a necessary evil by purchasing this machine, and balance things out by never having to buy cheap chinese furniture again, while also contributing to the economy here by helping others do the same, when they buy furniture from me made in Australia, with Australian materials, using a Chinese Machine.

If my venture were to become serious enough to warrant another machine, be assured I would definately pursue either the Australian Route or the Self Build Route. Not because I don't want to deal with the Jinan Quick CNC Company, but because I would be in both a better financial position, and have a greater knowledge base with which to build my own.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if all of the people like me immediately stopped buying chinese. Would the people then be better off ??

In any event, I am here to help people who have an interest in CNC machinery, not to debate the state of the world. Lets turn the subject back to the purpose of this thread.

[Andre09]

For most people, the most daunting thing to get their heads around will probably be the electronics. I myself have only a basic understanding of how electrical componentry works. Anything beyond voltage, current, amps and power is a little beyond me at this stage, but as I progress, I hope to have a better understanding, especially in terms of motion control components.

Attached are images of the Electrical cabinet of my machine. It appears neat and well built with plenty of space for heat dispersement. It should be a simple wire up for the electrician. In the future I hope to upgrade the machine to operate it using a Mach3 Controller. It would be great if it could be done using the majority of electronics which are already present in the cabinet. I also purchased a 4th Axis attachment, which I was told needed to be connected using a port from one of the existing axes. By this I mean that if you want to use the 4th Axis, either the X-Axis or Y-axis will be inoperable. I hope to be able to rectify this and have all axes working at the same time. Hopefully a Mach3 controller will have this ability.

Btw, can anybody tell me what the two Black Transformer like components are shown in the bottom section of the cabinet, and also what function the component with the wire mesh front perfoms ??

[Andre09]

Hi todd71, the purpose of the thread is not an advertisment for my Manufacturer. I have no real understanding of how the manufacturing industry works in China, so I can't make any concrete judgement, but it does seem that there are many of the same machine sold by different companies. . Not something that happens here in Australia. A Procam CNC Router is a unique machine, not manufactured by 100 other companies. My thread is aimed to be informative for all, not specific to one brand.

The lack of information, or lack of quality of information was a great source of frustration and angst during my purchase. Having other people on the forum document and share their experience was a great asset to me and this is my way of returning the favour.

After I have posted the photos of my machine, I will then focus my attention more on making chips and sharing my projects with people on the forum. Unfortunately I am awaiting a 3Phase Power Installation which has set me back some time. But I take your point, I could be seen to come across as an advertisment...

I appreciate that you hold no animosity towards me as CNC is my hobby and I'm here on the forum for enjoyment and education and no other reason. I see alot of threads turn personal and I have no interest in that at all. Noone will be happier or prouder than me whan I can share my projects on the forum...

[Rick Carter]

Hi Andre,

The two transformers are for the 4 stepper drivers, each transformer is for 2 drivers, I thought the driver is in 110V, so it is for transfer the 380V power into 110V which the drivers could work. And the "wire mesh" you mentioned is a filter, which is for making the useful signals pass to the driver stably and unuseful ones blocked. In other word, it is for the machine which can work more stable.

[rocket67]

I empathise with Todd. I know what he is saying. As an enthusiastic reader of the Gold is Money Forum i read these sort of things all the time.
But the fact is the stable door was opened a long time ago and the horse bolted. We need to deal with things the way they are. No hard feelings here Todd.
http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Andre, Am i correct in writing that by seeing these posts about the machines it helped you to make a decision on which machine to buy? You wrote sincerely that in Australia we do not have access to machines at competitive prices as they do in the USA. I had a quote from the distributor of Techno machines. It was going to cost us 80K for that machine. Too much for me. The Chinese machines are the logical answer for us.

Do not see this thread as an advertisement, but a factual account of these machines. It is valuable information for those of us interested in CNC Routers - especially on this side of the world. Please keep this superb thread going.

Sincerely.

Rocket.

[nash]

Andre09,

Congratulations on your new machine. It appears to have a strong structure. What is the material of the gantry? Is it steel or aluminum?

Thanks,
N

[Andre09]

Hi Nash, the Gantry on my machine is made from steel. The standard option for the K60MT is aluminium, but I requested steel. Its probably unneccesary and may even slow the machine down a little, but my mind is more at ease if I know that I've got a very strong gantry. I was also considering raising the Gantry, but decided to stay with the 200mm working height as I thought that adding extra height may increase the rick of instability as the gantry moved back and forth along the Y-Axis rails.

From what I know about the manufacturing process,the Gantry is welded together and then is sent to a Metal Planer/Shaper to create the flat surfaces to seat the linear slides onto. Someone who has more knowledge may be able to comment about this process, but that is my understanding. If you look closely at the photos showing the underside of the gantry, you can see a raised section of either steel or some composite, which also looks to be welded onto the Gantry and also machined flat.

One of the features that drew me to this style of Gantry was the way its put together. There is a video on Youtube showing an Excitech SHM1530 machine out of square and and when I saw the way it was attached at the ends, it seemed to rely on too many faces of components being true and square to each other in order for the whole Gantry to be aligned.This method used by the SHM1530 seems to be typical of most Gantrys built by the chinese manufacturers. (please read these comments as coming from an amateur, I may not know what the hell I'm talking about). With the structure of my Router there are only a few critical things which must occur for the gantry to run true.

They are:
1. The two Gantry supports must be machined flat at the same height (co-planar)
2. The Gantry beam must be machined so that two sides, the front side supporting the rails & the underside joining to the supports are both at right angles to each other and parallel along the length of the beam.

These two things can be achieved while the components are separate, so that when the builder comes to put it all together, his job is made relatively easy. Its more or less a case of inserting the bolts that join the supports to the beam and squaring the beam up to the Y-Axis. It seems like a simpler, more elegant solution to me. (I don't know that it was actually manufactured this way, but its the way I would have done it)

By having the Steel Gantry, the opportunity is also there to add an Auto tool changer if I wish in future without needing to add more strength.

There may also be an opportunity to build a 4th axis similar to the one you see below from an american company.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu7zZUSxdLE"]YouTube - NEW CNC.com carving[/ame]

For what its worth, I dont like the plates that have been attached to both ends of the beam, the ones with the cylinder welded to them. They are there to support a steel tube which has two right angles and is designed (Im guessing) to support the Dust extraction hose etc... I would have preferred to make up something myself, and Infact I may still do that.

Here are the photos I have of the Gantry:

[Andre09]

The two transformers are for the 4 stepper drivers, each transformer is for 2 drivers, I thought the driver is in 110V, so it is for transfer the 380V power into 110V which the drivers could work. And the "wire mesh" you mentioned is a filter, which is for making the useful signals pass to the driver stably and unuseful ones blocked. In other word, it is for the machine which can work more stable.

Hi Rick, thanks for the information. Its good to see that you have a working knowledge of your product. While we are on the topic, could you answer a few more things I was not quite sure about ?

1. The first photo shows the circuit breaker(connection point) for the external power, and I just wanted to confirm that the connection point next to the circuit breaker is to attach the vacuum pump. Am I correct in my assumption here ?

2. If I'm correct about the Vacuum pump connection, could you confirm whether the Machine Specification Tag Includes the Vacuum Pump in the 15KW power rating, or whether to total power requirement equals 15KW + 5.5KW (21.5KW)for the vacuum pump ?

3. The Fuling Inverter has a power rating of 11.0Kw, but the spindle has a 6.0 KW power rating. How does this work, has the inverter been limited in its power output, or is there something I don't understand about the relationship between Inverter & Spindle ?

As I said in an earlier post, the electrics are my weak point, so any information is useful on this topic..

[Rick Carter]

Hi Rick, thanks for the information. Its good to see that you have a working knowledge of your product. While we are on the topic, could you answer a few more things I was not quite sure about ?

1. The first photo shows the circuit breaker(connection point) for the external power, and I just wanted to confirm that the connection point next to the circuit breaker is to attach the vacuum pump. Am I correct in my assumption here ?

2. If I'm correct about the Vacuum pump connection, could you confirm whether the Machine Specification Tag Includes the Vacuum Pump in the 15KW power rating, or whether to total power requirement equals 15KW + 5.5KW (21.5KW)for the vacuum pump ?

3. The Fuling Inverter has a power rating of 11.0Kw, but the spindle has a 6.0 KW power rating. How does this work, has the inverter been limited in its power output, or is there something I don't understand about the relationship between Inverter & Spindle ?

As I said in an earlier post, the electrics are my weak point, so any information is useful on this topic..

Hi Andre,

Would like to,

1. Yes, your assumption is correct, the connection poles which attached with the breaker is for the vacuum pump.

2. The power which shown on the machine lable 15W has included the power of vacuum pump. So if it is 15Kw, only the machine is 15-5.5KW=9.5Kw

3. Normally many manufacture will use 7.5Kw inverter for a 6Kw spindle, maybe it could be enough for a Chinese spindle. but for a Italian HSD one, considered its peak power and the spindle's stability, we use the 11Kw. so the spindle could perform its best ability.

I'm very appreciated to your photos, have a nice weekend and don't work too hard..

[Andre09]

When deciding on which Vacuum pump to buy, I initially lent towards the better quality,more expensive Becker Vacuum Pump which I was really impressed by. This would have been my choice had I stuck to my original CNC Router Choice, which was The Excitech SHM1325. This router is slightly cheaper and would have allowed a little bit extra in the budget for the Vacuum Pump. I justified the purchase of the older technology pump by saying to myself that if it was not up to scratch, I could just save a little more and get the German Becker Pump. After reading this in one of Rocket's posts, I was starting to doubt the wiseness of my decision:

Still having problems with the Water Cooled Vacuum Pump on the 1500 x 3000 machine. If anybody is considering buying a Water Cooled Vacuum Pump with a machine - My advice would be- Don`t do it!!!! Get the Air Cooled Pump. We could have bought the Air Cooled Pump for $2,650 USD,with the machine. The Pump cannot be bought on it`s own from China, and we either have to pay $5,890 for the similar Pump here in Australia, or try to find a secondhand unit somewhere. A total head f...!
We will find an answer somehow.

Im hoping that I may have more luck with the Vacuum Pump Rocket. Had I read your trials and tribulations with the pump, I may have found some extra money to get the Becker Pump. We'll just see how things go with it...

Ohh, and when I know how the hell it works, I'll let you all know... The blurb was that it will hold 7 sheets of mdf down at one time... Yep, we'll see

[Rick Carter]

Actually the slogan is 7+1 sheets ... and pls take care of the wiring cause Rocket's pump is somehow wrecked by the wrong wiring of the electrician... god bless that pump...

[rocket67]

Andre, Here is my understanding - And this is without any instructions/manuals. Firstly, take a look at the Control Console -


The Green Button next to the Red Stop Switch turns the machine on after you turn the key. The 2 Buttons beside the On/Off Switch turn the Vacuum Pump on - but it is not under Load. The Switch on the right labelled Suction Button is the one that operates the Vacuum. The 6 Switches on the Right of the Console are the different Vacuum Zones.

Our pump operated fine until we turned the Suction Button ( the one under the key ). I believe that this creates the initial " Pull Down ", and the Pump only needs to hold the Vacuum after this. Is this correct Rick?

With our pump, upon turning on theSuction Button Switch ie. Putting it under Load, it sounds like the Pump is seizing up. Makes a terrible noise. Thought it may be the Impeller loose and hitting on something. We took the front of the Pump off. We found that the gasket may have been folded over at manufacture, and also the outline of the Impeller on the front plate. We may machine the front plate and make a new gasket just to see what happens.

I think it will be important for Andre to add some Soluble Oil to the water upon initial fill. We found a bit of corrosion inside the pump.

Also,whenever we turned off the Pump - Water went gushing down the pipe and into the machine outlet. So i wonder if it should have some sort of one way valve fitted to prevent this.

Any thoughts about this Rick?

Rocket.