[vij]

Hi friends

I need your advice. I am an electronics engg graduate. My dad is one of the partners of a growing tyre mould factory in Bangalore, India. I am a software engg by profession and have hardly entered the factory.


1. Can a software programmer like me(c++, flex, java with extensive 3d graphics experience in Maya, Max, melscript and maxscript) get to terms with CNC programming quickly in just 1 week hands on?

2. The programming work at the factory is predominantly with powermill and mastercam. Used to generate tool paths, engravings etc. Will it be easy for a programmer from another domain like me to get to terms.
Please note I dont know how lathes and other machines work. I only did a bit of engg drawing in my first year(I am an electronics engg. Can design and code in the Maya/Max 3d graphics environment).



My noobness shows in the questions perhaps, but thats exactly what I am

Please let me know what you guys think.

[posix]

yes it will be easy. and it's not engg, it's eng

[Adriano]

I think the problem is not to learn how programming, because the structures and logics are quiet similar, but to get acknowledgement of the working processes.
I mean spindle speeds, Feed rates, tools technology, working CW or CCW around a piece, for example. These are the most important arguments to be a smart CNC programmer.

" The problem is not the language, but yours speech !"

[bolton78]

hell no,you just wont be able to just 'jump' into cnc programming without any knowledge of engineering,machines,cutters,toolpaths etc

[vij]

hell no,you just wont be able to just 'jump' into cnc programming without any knowledge of engineering,machines,cutters,toolpaths etc

Hmm... Thats what I feared. I have written thousands of code snippets/programs related to web and IT, designed and coded in Maya/Max,have good logical skills, but have zero experience with machine tools, cnc machines, cutters etc.

So I guess, its going to be a steep curve. Slightly deflated...

[inflateable]

No chance. You'll crash the machines.

You'll be able to 'program' the machines, that's easy, but you won't know the machining processes. You need to learn how to cut metal: CAM software makes it quicker, but it doesn't do the work for you. Crashing a computer is a inconvenience - crash a CNC machine, and it can be spectacularly expensive.

Find a local tech college and learn about hand-on machining of lathes and mills and you'll be able to start, but it's an endless process. I've been programming CNC for 12 years now, and I'm still learning new techniques for cutting metal. You need to learn the skills.

[diycnc]

mastercam is quite easy to use. it wont however tell you that your going to snap the end of the cutter of because your doing a ridiculous doc or federate. probably wont tell you that your drilling a hole in the table of your nice machine either.

[mongo46538]

Remember you will need some general machining knowlege. Work with an available Machinist as you write programs...

Go Here

http://www.haascnc.com/custserv_training.asp#haastrain

Look up Lathe and VMC programming manuals.

Good Luck.

mongo

[Harshwardhan]

No chance. You'll crash the machines.

You'll be able to 'program' the machines, that's easy, but you won't know the machining processes. You need to learn how to cut metal: CAM software makes it quicker, but it doesn't do the work for you. Crashing a computer is a inconvenience - crash a CNC machine, and it can be spectacularly expensive.

Find a local tech college and learn about hand-on machining of lathes and mills and you'll be able to start, but it's an endless process. I've been programming CNC for 12 years now, and I'm still learning new techniques for cutting metal. You need to learn the skills.

I agree, CNC is just a tool. You need a feel for the process, only then the numbers and jargon will make real-world sense to you.

[rockcraft]

Hi Guys,
While cutting a job, my cnc waterjet miss the path during machining. What can I do for this problem.
Boby

[walter.e.gough]

vij,

I've been a software engineer for over 20 years. C/C++, Java, Assembly, from Windows crap, Unix, micro-controllers - you name it.

A couple years ago, I was getting bored - got interested in machining ... still don't know why. It just happens to the best of us. Anyways, got me a mini-mill, mini-lathe and an assortment of tools. Started trying to build what looked to be a simple single-cylinder steam engine model for kicks and giggles.

After throwing away the 5th piston that was the wrong size, and getting more than a little annoyed with myself, I realized something: in the software world we are a bit spoiled for 2 reasons:

1) Mistakes are free. If we screw up a C call with some bad pointers and get the infamous BSOD, we just reboot and start over. If we screw up a disk driver, maybe we even corrupt some files or a filesystem - reformat and start over. Time is money, so I guess it is costing you, but you don't do anyone/anything physical damage. No so when you are making something with machine tools: best case, you just made some scrap, next best case, you made some scrap + ruined a bit, worst case: the shop foreman/father-in-law was in the way and your g-code ripped his arm off. (okay, I got carried away)

2) In the software world, the distance between knowledge and skill is very short. When I realized this, I went to online metals and ordered a bunch of whatever they had on sale, then I just practiced nothing in particular on my machines. In the machinist world, the distance between knowledge and skill is much greater. You may know in 1 sec you need to turn a rod down to .501 of a inch, but doing it repeatedly is a matter of practice and patience - kinda reminds me of my dad trying to teach me to play baseball. In the software world, if you understand an API, using it is pretty easy ... knowledge is almost the same thing as skill.

CNC will let you shortcut this second point to a degree. I would encourage you however, if you want to help your dad in the family business, to not take the shortcut. Take some time to learn machining manually. If not at a college then at least get a cheap mini-lathe and just make stuff - manually before going CNC. CNC programming (actually 'G-Code' programming) is kinda like macro-languages (kinda like VBA) - you are just automating a machine. Run the spindle too fast on a piece of magnesium and you can start a 4,000 degree (F) fire - that's a fire you can't put out. So bugs in G-code can be really, really expensive ...

G-Code programming, compared to "real" software engineering, is easy. Bugs like off-by-one errors on loops won't frustrate you like they do a lot of machinist new to programming. However, knowing what to tell the machine to do is not so easy.

A book I found very helpful is called 'Home Shop Machinist' - helped me a lot.

Also, don't know if you are into open source or not, but if you are, jump over to www.linuxcnc.org - the home for EMC2 distribution. Get the ISO - if you don't have a real machine & controller, then stick it in a VMWare guest and configure it to run a simulation machine. VMware isn't suitable for running this "for real" because of hardware issues (real-time kernel), however, if you just want to tinker with G-Code, you can play with it and "see" it rendered in a tool called Axis inside vmware just fine. (It uses opengl to draw what the g-code is telling it to make...) Now, this flavor of g-code will be different than the machines in your dad's shop, but it will give you a good idea of how g-code programming works. (g-code is kinda like browser DOMs ... each vendor's is a little different - and just like web development, you want to write you code to adapt to a user's environment.)

I like to use python - I use the multi-line strings and interpolate variables to alter hand-tooled g-code. Whatever your favorite string-processing language is can be used to good effect. Or you can just write straight g-code for that matter.

I spent less than $1k on my homemade CNC machine including a 4-axis controller (xylotech) - that's a pretty cheap investment for learning a new skill as useful as this.

Sorry for the verbose reply. I been where you at... let me know if I can help.

[bajaru]

Hey Vij,
I say go for it, but start out small, so WHEN a mistake does happen, it doesn't rip off your father-in-law's arm like walter.a.gough mentioned, which would be pretty embarrassing and rather unsightly.

I'm a programmer too and I built a CNC router from a kit. I just finished it and I've already learned so much and I'm getting a feeling for how much more there is to learn. I started out by simply drawing stuff with a ball point pen under CNC control. So far, my mistakes have only caused a few pens to get jammed into the table and some ripped up paper. Thank goodness I wasn't running the 2.25 horsepower router yet!

Anyway, that's my two cents...

-Brian

[bluej_x]

Hi Guys,
While cutting a job, my cnc waterjet miss the path during machining. What can I do for this problem.
Boby

Boby,

Look at your I and J values on your radius interpolations. If they do not jibe exactly with the wanted path the machine will wander in search of. Something as simple as rounding up the decimal can do it.

Question: Did you hand program the path or use a cam package? If you used a cam package you might check your DXF for an open contour.

[svenakela]

Come on guys, he has been doing more math in school than any schooled machinist ever will do. Doing some interpolation and learn wich point in space the machine should go to or around is not even advanced.
Yes, getting the material knowledge and being a good machinist takes time because of the experience. But I would say anyone in Vij's position is bright enough to get it.

I'm a former prototyping engineer that went into IT-business long time ago, but I started my own modelling/short series company to keep on with the prototyping. Not as much money, but way more fun!
And now several years later, I have so much to do, I have to work less with the IT-part to get the machines running and on top of that the income has raised.

So, good luck Vij, go for it!

[Switcher]

Hi friends

I need your advice. I am an electronics engg graduate. My dad is one of the partners of a growing tyre mould factory in Bangalore, India. I am a software engg by profession and have hardly entered the factory.


1. Can a software programmer like me(c++, flex, java with extensive 3d graphics experience in Maya, Max, melscript and maxscript) get to terms with CNC programming quickly in just 1 week hands on?

2. The programming work at the factory is predominantly with powermill and mastercam. Used to generate tool paths, engravings etc. Will it be easy for a programmer from another domain like me to get to terms.
Please note I dont know how lathes and other machines work. I only did a bit of engg drawing in my first year(I am an electronics engg. Can design and code in the Maya/Max 3d graphics environment).



My noobness shows in the questions perhaps, but thats exactly what I am

Please let me know what you guys think.

I don't think it will happen (not in a week).


.

[jgramlich]

I did a similar thing, going from IT to manufacturing. The best and fastest way to learn this stuff is to work in the shop. Become an apprentice machinist. One week...not a chance...more like six months. You don't have to learn the tools as well as the old-school machinists, but in about six months of working in the shop you should know enough about how the tools work and etc to begin programming effectively.

[jvalger]

4-6 months full time is realistic to get to the point where you feel comfortable. Not expert, comfortable.

The thing you have to understand first is that the software tools for machining are a reflection of the machining process and the equipment and materials involved. You have to grasp the process and equipment in order to be productive with the programming, not the other way around. C++, Java, Maya, etc., experience is as likely to make it harder as easier to learn NC machining because you keep expecting the concepts to be the same, and they aren't. Better to enter with the frame of mind that you are starting from scratch, you'll be less frustrated that way.

Maya etc. will be a huge help in learning 3D CAD. Won't help a bit on CAM let alone NC programming. NC programming is like going back to stone axes and slate tablets after using C++/Java.

Jeff

[philwell]

Hi friends

I need your advice. I am an electronics engg graduate. My dad is one of the partners of a growing tyre mould factory in Bangalore, India. I am a software engg by profession and have hardly entered the factory.


1. Can a software programmer like me(c++, flex, java with extensive 3d graphics experience in Maya, Max, melscript and maxscript) get to terms with CNC programming quickly in just 1 week hands on?

2. The programming work at the factory is predominantly with powermill and mastercam. Used to generate tool paths, engravings etc. Will it be easy for a programmer from another domain like me to get to terms.
Please note I dont know how lathes and other machines work. I only did a bit of engg drawing in my first year(I am an electronics engg. Can design and code in the Maya/Max 3d graphics environment).



My noobness shows in the questions perhaps, but thats exactly what I am

Please let me know what you guys think.

It never fails to amaze me how little engineering and IT people understand just how complicated cnc machining is.
Been when the machine trys to bury a 2 inch carbide cutter into a block of 316 SS at 400 inch per minute it will be the operaters fault

[a1diesinker]

POWERMILL is the best 3D software I used it for 12 years

using Esprit now its crap for milling but good for turning

[txcncman]

POWERMILL is the best 3D software I used it for 12 years

using Esprit now its crap for milling but good for turning

Replied to a 2-1/2 year old post. Wow. Just wow.