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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    672
    With the side mount swing arm type tool changers, the tools do not stay in assigned "pots" on the belt/magazine the way they do on the umbrella types. With umbrella type machines, Tool 1 is always stored in position 1 on the carousel.

    On swing arm machines. the purpose of loading the tools through the spindle is to give each tool to the machine via the spindle and let the machine assign it a "pot" on the belt/magazine. However, once a program has been cycled and the tools have been sequenced, the tools will not necessarily be in their original "pots". For example, suppose the machine starts with T1 in the spindle, pot1 on the belt/magazine is sitting empty, and T2-Tx are in pot2-potx on the belt/magazine. When running a part program, T2 is called. The belt/magazine places T2/pot2 at the ready postion. When M6 is commanded, the swing arm puts T2 into the spindle and puts outgoing T1 into pot2. Pot1 remains empty. The tool number will no longer match the pot number. Gets very confusing if the program skips around with tools, like going from T1 to T14 to T23. In that instance, T1 winds up in T14's pot, then T14 goes to T23's pot.

    I think there are some machines which have an intermediate pot between the belt/magazine and the swing arm. This permits the tools to stay in assigned pots on the belt/magazine. I think this style is only found on really big horizontal machines.

    As a useless tangent, this is why machine tool builders will sometimes claim tool capacity on swing arm machines to be xx + 1 as the belt/magazine can be full and one tool in the spindle and the tool changer will still work properly. All pots can be occupied and a tool in the spindle. Umbrella types must always have an open spot in the carousel to accept the tool currently in the spindle.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    781
    All twin arm changing machines I have seen have a tool table page on the control which will tell you which tool is in which pot number. Everything works fine until something happens and the table no longer matches the hardware.
    It gets even more fun if you have an oversize tool where the adjacent pots need to remain empty.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    15
    What is the best way to initialy get the tools loaded into the system so that the control knows where they are. I am currently having dificulty getting the machine to remember where they are.Thank you.

    regardss, JohnS. Wracher

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    781
    The “best way” is probably a bit too subjective for something like this.
    However when all else fails you can.

    1: Pull all the tools out of the machine.
    2: Reset the tool table, some machines will have a command to do this, others you need to do manually (pot 1 = tool 1, etc.) the procedure would be in the machine manuals.
    I have seen a machine that would get messed up to the point it would show tool 4 in pot 6 and also in pot 11 etc. and tool 7 may not exist anyplace.
    3: Load the tools back in thru the spindle.

    If you want to keep the tools from moving around you can if you are willing to do extra tool changes. This just simulates the way an umbrella type of changer works and wastes a lot of time.

    Code:
    O0001
    (TOOL N IS SOME UNUSED TOOL NUMBER)
    (THIS CAN GET MESSED UP IF TOOL)
    (CHANGES ARE DONE USING MDI WITHOUT)
    (THE TN M6 CHANGE BEING DONE)
    …
    TN M6
    T01 M6
    …
    (machine with tool 1)
    …
    TN M6
    T02 M6
    …
    (machine with tool 2)
    …
    TN M6
    T03 M6
    …
    (machine with tool 3)
    …
    TN M6
    (ETC.)
    G30

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    338
    accramachine,
    First, before you started did you clear or reset the tool magazine data? Either by editing a table of data, or a M-code or similar? Check your manuals for how. You will want to reset the data so pocket 1 = tool 1 ect. initially to make sure that isn't a cause of problems.

    When you say it forgets where the tools are, how are you determining this is the case?
    If you do T1 M6 (insert and cycle start) load a tool, then repeat for T2, then T1 M6 again will the first tool be called back to the spindle? If so, this is all that matters (provided it is true for all the tool numbers).

    Another possible method if you can insert the tools into the magazine by hand. Set tool numbers to = pocket numbers like above, then manually put in the tools. This ONLY work if you have set the pockets to equal the tools, and have not done any tool changes yet. AKA setup use only!

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    15
    I didn't get a manual with this machine, so I am not sure how to clear the tool data. What I meant by the machine not remembering is, when in MDI I load tools and then go back and call them up, they do not come up . ie; I call for T1 and get T2 and so on .

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    338
    Well lacking the actual manual your in a bit of a mess.

    One thought, I have seen where having T# M6 on the same line would not work right. Try placing them on separate lines
    T#
    M6

    Another thing to try is just command T#'s and check the tool it calls up to the ready pocket without the M6 getting involved. So T1, note the tool called, T2 note that one... Then come back and recheck T1 T2 ect. If you do not do a M6 will it be consistent?

    With you lacking any other source of information, I'll offer some possibly dangerous for the machine advice. Observe the machine carefully before you even consider changing anything! On my machine the tool to pocket location table is in the diagnostics screen. Number 600 is the tool in the spindle, 601-624 are the tools in pockets 1-24 I have NO IDEA if this is the same for your machine! You can look at it and see if the changes in those numbers match what the machine is doing, and consider resetting them to the pocket numbers for a fresh start.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    15
    Thank you for the suggestions, I will look into it. Thanks again.

    regards, John S. Wracher

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    15
    For everyone who helped me with suggestions on how to re-run a cycle without taking a tool out of the spindle, I finaly found out how to do it. I simply leave a tool change number out of the program and then the machine will allow me to start the cycle with the tool in the spindle. Thanks again to all who helped me with this.

    regard, John S. Wracher

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    672
    Sounds too easy. We like secret parameters that need changing.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1511
    Quote Originally Posted by accramachine View Post
    I simply leave a tool change number out of the program and then the machine will allow me to start the cycle with the tool in the spindle.
    John,
    Most of the time this is done in the tool change program. If you don’t want to have to edit your program and take out the tool change all the time then you can still use the M6 and call a macro with it and bypass the M6 in the macro if the current tool in the spindle matches the tool you are calling.

    What you have to do is see if there is a parameter that tracks the current tool in the spindle on your control. If there is not one you can set one up. If your machine does not call a macro with the M6 which I ass u me it is not then you have to set the parameter to do so.

    On your control #240-#242 willl call program 9001-9003 so if you want program 9001 to be your tool change program set parameter #240=6. Now when you command an M6 it will call program 9001. Now pick a variable that you want to use to track the tool in the spindle. Make sure you use variables #500 and above because they don’t reset or clear at power down. Lets just say #500. Manually set #500= to the current tool in the spindle. Now you can write your tool change program.

    O9001(TOOL CHANGE PROGRAM)
    G40G80—(tool dia cancel & canned cycle cancel)
    IF[#4120EQ#500]GOTO1--(jumps to N1 and skips tool change if calling tool in spindle)
    G91G28Z0M9—(tool change position in Z & coolant off)
    M19--(tool orientation)
    G28Y0M5—(tool change position in Y & spindle stop)
    M6—(tool call of modal T value)
    N1—(address to jump to if calling current tool in the spindle)
    #535=#4120—(sets #535 equal to the tool that was called to the spindle)
    M99
    (*note #4120 is your modal “T” so when you program a T5M6 #4120 will be set to 5)


    There is much more you can add to this if you want to. I have all of my speeds and feeds set in this program along with the G43H(). This way I don’t have to worry about hard coding it or fatfinger in the main program. It always sets everything to the tool I am calling.

    There is an exception to doing the above. If your ladder is written to stall the program if you are calling the current tool in the spindle then I have another fix for you. I came across this when setting up a machine that had the ladder alarm when calling the current tool in the spindle. What MTB would ever do this is beyond me . I have never seen anything like it before. The ladder was burned into Eeprom so I did not bother going through the hassle of changing it.

    Stevo

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