[TravisW]

SO long story short....hardinge doesn't want to warranty the CF (Compact Flash) module that their system for the EZ Vision off. Well, they don't want to extend the 6 months warranty. It has Windows XP embedded so making a copy is damn near impossible.

So my question to you guys is this. Are any of you having to replace these cards? If so how often? Do you know of anyone that has had to replace these cards? The service dept at hardinge says this isn't a common problem but they have sold 4 cards this year and this will be the third one in mine since it was new 2 years ago. IMO there is a problem but I have no one to use as an example besides myself.

If anyone has had any problems or expereinces with this please let me know....maybe together we can get Hardinge to do something about this.

Thanks
Travis

[Nawrocki4Life]

Hello i've worked on many EZ Visions in the past. Im a service tech for a Hardinge distributor. I only had to really replace that card once on a machine due to a very bad virius getting into the system. I admit that these machines have there fair share of "funky" problems but I havent seen much of what your talking about. The cooling of that boards inside the operator pendent is very important. Majority of machine shops have a dirty enviroment around them and dust begins to built in the cover that is hiding that card. So make sure that both the fan on the board and the fan mounted on the back wall are working. Also make sure that the remote card holder's area is staying clean. This system uses fiber optics to communicate the drives to the controller. There is where I run into most of the problems. What is the problem your experiancing? The control doesnt boot up or just the ez vision program. Just to let you know as well, (you probably know this already), but there are only 2 files on the system that is specific to the machine its on. The "stored pitch error" and the "backlash comp'.

[TravisW]

Nawrocki4Life....thanks for the reply.

Thanks for the advice about the cooling fan and boards. I was made very aware of that by my service tech when the machine was installed (he made it sound like it was one of the most important things you could do). Even though we are in an very clean environment I make sure that at least once a month all the filters get cleaned. Reasoning for once a month is we use misting systems so they get a little nasty quick IMO. I even replace the filter material instead of just cleaning it.

I thought about a virus also but the machine isn't connected to the internet and the USB sticks we use don't get used for anything other than transfer of programs. So that was out also.

It ate two more flash cards since I posted this originally. Luckily they were both with a service guy here. The problem is that they are not booting up in Windows. The CMOS is fine but Windows gets to VERIFYING POOL DATA...... and stops. We check power, voltage, motherboard and everything else. SO it has come to this......Hardinge is going to warranty the whole pendent and send me another. First, they don't build them in house and there are to many parts inside to just keep throwing parts at it. Second, in the long run this is cheaper for everyone.

I am aware of the 2 files specific to the machine. The problem is that Windows XP is embedded in the CF card making it damn near impossible to copy. If anyone wants to try I heard it has been done using Norton Ghost which will clone your hard drive. BUT never never never reformat the CF card on your computer it will lose the data and screw the partitions on the card rendering it useless for this application.

So big kudos to Hardinge for standing behind their product (even though it's not a high end/expensive machine) and for their phone support.

Thanks again for the reply.

[TimC]

EZ Vision has been discontinued. The CF modules are junk. I have replaced them in almost every machine we have installed and no Hardinge will not warranty. Fact is your paying for software you already paid for. When you bought you EZVision it came with the chip loaded with the servosoft and XP imbedded, therefore you technically bought the license for this software much the same way you buy a new computer with software preloaded including windows. You are not offered a way to back up your EZVision or provided copies of the software and are thereby forced to continually repurchase software you already bought. BTW Hardinge has no idea whats even going on with the software, ServoSoft changed the parameter password and hardinge doesn't know what it is. I had to work through ServoSoft to find it. Trust me I dealt closely with the Tech at Hardinge who practically built this system and even that person told me hardinge is very aware of the problem but at what $1200 a pop why fix it? Its a cash cow. Sell that thing while you can.

[TravisW]

Hi Tim,
Well, Hardinge did warranty the CF module. They actually came here and it took 5 days.....4 control pendents and 5 CF modules. I felt bad for my service tech but it was just weird problem after weird problem and he made a couple of mistakes also that lead to needing all the modules and pendents. SO they just replaced the whole control pendent and CF module. I did quite a bit of complaining and made a ton of phone calls...trust me if they weren't aware there was a problem they are aware of it now.

I agree that having to repay for software is a load of crap and I let them know that and I let Soft Servo know it also.

Hopefully the next guy has the same luck I did and they take care of them also. I give Hardinge credit they stepped up....I *****ed and moaned to get them there but they did get there. I have a feeling that with most of Hardinge service being outsourced now that this problem is going to be on the machine purchasers and not the companies.

[unfkr]

We have a three year old three axis that has seen very little use, maybe one night a week at about three hours each, under 300 hours . The one problem that kept showing up was when going to "home all" a red e-stop comes on screen, resetting that, the Z axis moves down .02" not indicating while moving the e stop comes on again and z shows the move, sometimes rebooting will clear this.
Lately when "home all" is selected "cannot power x-axis " shows and cannot be cleared.
We have swapped the x & y motor servo's with the same result,
we have unplugged and reinserted the fiber optic cable(s),
also shined a flashlight through both cables and saw light.
we will be looking for the presence of 24v where appropriate next week.

Having contacted Hardinge/bridgeport and SoftServo they seem to think throwing thousand dollar parts in its general direction is the accepted trouble shooting technique of the day.
They two independent technicians we have spoken with are helpful with preliminary tests but very very expensive to entertain for unknown periods of time and require us to order parts they may need. (thousands again)
Also there was mention of setting parameters with another pc and 232/45 cable?
There our tale of woe, any comment/advice/direction?? Thank you in advance ,Carl

[Nawrocki4Life]

I've worked on many of these machines and had alot of trouble with exactly the same problem your describing. What your problem is, is that the control isnt seeing the drives. Thats the " couldnt power up x axis" message your seeing. The flashing of e-stop here and there could be because of that or something diffrent. I would say that 85% of the time this problem is the DC 150 (or 120) servo interface unit. Thats the box in the electric panel that the fiber optic cables plug into. i've replaced many of them. Check connections of cables from that unit to each of the drives. (probably not the problem... but check em) The fiber optic cables could be a problem, but doubt it. Now in the actuall control pendent there is a set of shorter fiber optic cables in there. They could be a problem as well, but doubt that one also. The board where those plug into could also be a problem. That board has a smaller board mounted on top of it through a many pin connector. that connection can be bad or the solder joints maybe losts connections.

I've had one machine that would run fine for hours and then go into e-stop out of no where. I ended up changing out the fiber optic board in the contol for that one.

Sorry but I dont believe there is an easy way to find this one out. My best guess would be that dc 150 interface module though because thats the part i change out the most.

Hope this helps out any!

[unfkr]

Thanks I will post again after I get to play with the machine some more ,Carl

[Nawrocki4Life]

Yes there is a reason to hook up a additional computer through a rj45 cable. That would be the comp wired to the drive (x,y,or z) to re-tune it. That never has to be done unless you replace a drive with a new one. Parameters for the machine are set through the softservo/servoworks. Ones that should have to change (over time due to wear) are for backlash and pitch error comp. If you ever run into screwy problems... that get really out of hand/ you cant live with them. You could always reload the EZ Vision software located on that flash card installed in the pendant.


To acces it you need to shut down the machine. By it being in e-stop, hitting the soft datum/home button, the shut down button..... after you hit that button, you have like 5sec. to hit the enter button followed by the "S" button 3 times. That will take you into a normal desktop screen. Go to "my computer" and look at the C: drive (HARDINGE). in there you will find you EZ Vision software. You can click on it and choose to install it again, that process takes anywhere to 5mins to 20mins. hope you figure it out....... due to the very very simple ladder logic of it. Its not very easy to troubleshoot...... SO CALLED "EZ Vision" huh??

If you have any other questions let me know. i hate to hear people struggle trying to fix "good old american Hardinge".....

[unfkr]

We put in a new 150 and got "cannot power x axis)

[Nawrocki4Life]

Why did you change the DC 150 unit? For that reason? That alarm can be The white plugs on any of the 3 drives, ive seen one little wire come out of the molex plugs and give me that alarm. The other end of those plugs go into the DC 150 unit. Does the unit have the ready light on? then the fiber optics plug is in the bottom and that goes to the back of the pendent. Check those connections very good. check to see if you can shine light all the way through the cables. Then open the pendent and check the fiber optic cables that go from the connector inside to the google I/O board. If all connections are good then I would have to say its that board. Its rare though I have only had to change 2 of those boards. That alarm will come up when any of that line I just explained is broken. Let me know if you have any more questions.

[unfkr]

Nawrocki4Life, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge..
I haven't had a chance to get back to the machine but another bit of info , we rotated the connectors on the dc150 trying each axis on each plug and still got the "cannot power x axis".
when you speak of the "white" plugs or "molex" are these the ones on the axis drive motors and or the ones on the resolvers?

[Nawrocki4Life]

No they are the plugs that come out of the actual drives on the bottom left of the elec cab. follow the wires that come out of the drive. They go directly to that DC 150 unit. Dont worry about the motor/encoder cables i doubt that is your problem

[unfkr]

one more question before I actually get to touch the machine (Wednesday)when should the "ready" and "active "lights on the dc150 turn on? and what color are they we have an orangish ready light but no active light? thanks again,Carl

[Nawrocki4Life]

Bare with me b/c it has been some time since ive worked on one of these. If I recall right The ready light and the active light only are 1 color. The ready light should be on when the unit has power and the active light should be on when one of the axis's is running/jogging. Its a brand new unit correct? and if so where did you get it from b/c I believe thats a obsolute unit for a while now. let me know if you have any more questions

[unfkr]

Hi back again I don't know where the machine owner obtained the dc150 but,where it is looking like it's not the problem he has mentioned finding out what the restocking charge will be. He has been in contact with bridgport and softserve so it could be either.
Anyhow tonight we pulled all the connectors off the drives wiggled the wires ,tightened connector screws shone light through the optic cable,pulled the optic cable off with power on saw red light going to the 150 and out of the 150 physically checked as many connections as we could find ( had the pendant open)moved the axis plugs(on the 150) to different outputs on the 150 and still got cannot power X regardless of which axis was connected where so that leads me to believe it is some where prior to the 150. Question? would reloading the software be a possibility? Thanks again for your patience,Carl

[Nawrocki4Life]

See the problem with these machines is that they were not very well designed. The castings are great but the electronics are weak. The big issue is that there really isnt a good set of alarms on this machine. I've only seen 3. (Though there can be more)

1.) E-stop red box
2.) E-stop with "X,Y,Z Amp alarm"
3.) Couldnt power up X-axis in a windows box


If this problem is truely linked/coming from a axis, you will always get a "x-axis" alarm no matter what axis truely has the problem. If you do not believe the problem is after the DC 150, then all you have left is the fiber optics cable and the board that those go into. The CPU board in the pendent (that has the CF card connected to it with the fan) is connected to the I/O card through a 100'ish pin socket. Check to make sure that those 2 boards are connected well. It will never hurt you to reload the software, but I stongly suggest not to put any older or newer software then what you have in the machine. Each version has diffrent "bugs" and if your used to your machine, keep that software as others will change how the machine truley runs. Earlier in these posts I explained how to enter the desktop (correctly, DO NOT USE "Control/ALT/Delete this is a VERY VERY BAD WAY OF GETTING TO IT. NEVER EVER EVER USE THAT TO DO SO.) and how to reinstall the software off the CF card. Once in the desktop you can open S-100m program and try to run the machine. This is the SoftServo motion engine and what is actually running/controling the machine. Also there is a place that shows a few more areas that are monitored through that. I dont remember off hand where that is in there. Click around the tabs on the boarders and I believe you can find it where there is the option to change the view you see on the screen. (Maybe 2-3 tabs down on the right side). Hope this helps you some. Man I remember working on these, every repair was a "Nightmare" Good luck!!

[unfkr]

Nawrocki4Life,
thank you again, I will try those connections next time . Another question ,the "CF card" is it a "compact flash" card like in a cannon camera or is it that e-prom looking thing all by it self on a separate board? would pictures help? Thanks ,Carl

[Nawrocki4Life]

Yes it is a compact flash card. It has a remote connector "hidden" by the only cover on the back of the pendent. Then i believe a ribbon cable goes from that to the mother board. Did you reload software like you asked? I still believe that the communication isnt getting through. there has to be a bad connection somewhere. May not be a cable but a soder joint somewhere in the pendent. On the new DC150 unit you tried. There are 2 ports for fiber optics cable, did you use the same sockets? and there are a dip switch to turn on and off each channel. Make sure you have the cables in the correct socket and that socket's dip switch may be on. Copy the old one, other channel will not work. dont know why that is though....

[unfkr]

Hi me again,
don't want to play anymore,had it with lack of support,not even getting into "affordable" support, Sooo, the question IS!!!

What is the best control system to replace "EZ Vision" system on a Hardinge/Bridgport machine? should be able to use the existing motors/resolvers? the machine has been down for the better part of a year , I don't want to become a constantly employed electronics technician/repairman/one step at a time programmer, all I am looking for is a bunch of canned cycles I can string together to do short 3-30 piece jobs in Alum,Brass,copper,PTFE,polyprop.etc. in the .005"tolerance range quickly without having having to become the allknowing EZ Vision psychoanalyst.