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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    794
    The whole spindle drive tube (Quill) will drop out.
    remove all tools
    remove the quill manual drive assy by pulling spring load assy and extract shaft out other side.
    left side of box, remove set screw jam, under it is actual set screw dog point which sets into groove in Quill
    then loosen the quill lock and drop out quill.
    there is a lock nut assy on top of spindle to be removed then all the bearings and spindle slide apart.
    Stock bearings are conical rollers, good for most usage, and when reassembled are set to zero plus one lock.
    A better replacement bearing is a low end angular contact ball set #'s are:
    top, (koyo) 7206BGC3 FY S0607
    bottom, (koyo) 7207BGC3 FY S0605
    These will require a little more preload setting, mine took zero +3 on the lock to take out all slack when warmed up. I started at +1 and after warming spindle I grabbed spindle and wiggle checked it then tightened +1 on lock and repeated. when I reached +3 it remained solid when warm from use.
    Also, and I feel this is important ! I took an old boot and cut a round out of the leather that will lay on the bottom threaded spindle nut, and cut a tight hole to slide over spindle, then put this on nut and run the nut home as a seal. This prevents the melting grease from escaping and coolant from washing out bottom bearing. It is amazing how simple yet effective it is at keeping the lube where it belongs for the bottom bearing. Next thing is to use the best grease for the spindle bearings that you can find, If you have a bearing supply house local, go in and ask for some, spindle grease has a much better ability to stay with the bearing than does automotive bearing grease.
    After you have done it once you can effectively do all this in an hour or two. It does not take that long so there is no reason to not keep these bearings in proper condition.
    I have no idea what the tool is for as all my bearings slipped off and on easily by hand !
    The cost of these angular contact bearings is just slightly more than the stock bearings and well worty it if you are planning on increasing spindle speed. There are much more expensive AC bearings available, but not worth the expense !
    Again, don't skimp on the grease ! My spindle totally vaporized the stock grease and the bearings were on the verge of exploding in a very short period of time. But then again, my gear box and quill was contaminated with cast iron fine too ! That is one of the issues which Gene put the KYBOSH too right away ! Cleanlyness, and QC !

    Almost forgot, I don't have any idea how Aaron did his drive, this may alter the above description of what to expect ! You may find that you will need to remove motor and gear box lid ! It all depends on how he attached the drive to the spindle. The stock drive allows the spindle to drop out of it very easily !
    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    77
    When bumping up RPM through "gearing" be it on a mill or car the rules are the same. Increase RPM by 2:1 and torque is reduced by the same ratio (reducing RPM multiplies torque)

    Chris

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    794
    Saabman,
    Of course you are correct, but ! We know well about gear ratio's and torque ! What is being discussed above is, How much torque should be expected and How much torque is being perceived in use ! As well, the actual ratio's being used !
    It is plain that if it don't work then a change is needed !
    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    77
    Sorry Don, did not mean to state the obvious. Electric motors often have torque charts as part of their detailed specifications. Do you have such information on the 2 and 4 pole motors your are using? It seems a simple derivative to compute effective quill output torque armed with gear reduction and input torque specification of the motor. Assuming of course there is no slipping in the belt drive.

    Chris

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    794
    The only motor I bought new was the 2 pole, and no charts. The 4 pole motor I bought used from a local shop, and no charts.
    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    41
    Cruiser,

    Thanks for the info on the spindle removal. I haven't had the time to look at it as of yet, but I've printed your instructions for future reference. Right now I'm in the process of building a CNC router table for wood purposes. So, I'm spending most of my free time on it. I always seem to have way more projects than time.

    thanks again

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    122

    Motor Frame size

    Cruiser,
    What was the frame size of the motor? I am looking at upgrading to a VFD and need to get a motor that will work with the Mill.

    Thanks

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    794
    Small toys,
    If your interested, I have my 2hp 2pole take off, a leeson, Not the stock motor !, shaft turned and ready to drop onto the IH mill and also the hitachi L200 that I ran it with. All working just fine when I did my upgrade. These are for sale, I haven't come up with an asking price yet, but I will hear all offers.
    If you still have the gear box intact then it will do an awsome job for you, Since I went to belt drive and gave up my gears, I found it didn't quite have the torque to run large end mills in steel. While I still had the gears in action, it was plenty of power in lower gears with larger end mills in steel or whatever matr'l. This motor will double your speed at spindle, for aluminum and similar matr'ls.
    The VFD has all papers and the book, and some notes as to what I prg'md into it.
    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    122
    Cruiser,
    I will be doing the belt drive conversion also, so if you could, let me know what frame size you used and mods required to make it work.

    I have looked at a 184TC frame that I think I could get to work. But have yet to take mine apart to verify. I would prefer to have everything ready befoe I tear into it.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    794
    If your gear box is in good shape my vote is for "LEAVE IT ALONE" If you insist on converting it then all my specs are here in archives. I even had a few pics with some hints and stuff. The motor that I have now, I don't know for sure what frame size it is, I do know that I looked at some motors that I thought would work but were in fact way too big. Getting a solid belt drive to work would be a lot easier if a new top plate was made to replace the stock one. If you only look for getting up to 6,000 rpm then know that it can be done through the gear box as well without loosing low end torque. I went the route of this one way trip and it really can open up "PANDOR'S BOX" and it aint fun. I don't have a good enough memmory to go back to original plans, specs, parts, etc. but a lot of it is in archive. There are many ways to do it and I'm not so sure that mine is ideal, it is just the way that I did it !
    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1268
    Wow, this is the thread I've been searching for!
    Cruiser, I have pert near the same set up as your original. Leeson 2 hp 3250 RPM 230 3 phase motor on a lathemaster (ZAY) cnc'd mill. I still have the gear box but I continually break carbide end mills when milling aluminum. Just last week I broke 2 each 1/4" carbide ($$$) end mills trying to take a .2" doc running at 2500 RPM (gear on high). The spindle would bog and then "snap", another dead soldier. What am I doing wrong????
    Guys, I thought I understood this setup but damn if I'm not getting frustrated and broke too! I've read where a vector drive would be smart enough to torque up when needed when the Hitachi just lets things slow down.
    Can anyone help???? I sure this is not enough informatin but just ask and I'll tell! Please help!
    Would I be better off with a vector drive??? Any recommendations on a old mans budget?
    Bill
    Oh yeah, Thanks Millions!!!!!
    billyjack
    Helicopter def. = Bunch of spare parts flying in close formation! USAF 1974 ;>)

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1015
    whats your feed rate and width of cut? 2500 rpm is really slow for aluminum, especially for a .25 dia endmill. also you don't mention if your running flood coolant or any coolant at all and if its a 4 flute end mill or a 2 flute.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    794
    Bill,
    I sold the leeson motor and found out from the new owner that it was wired 440 ! I didn't know and had no way of figuring without specific searching and had the problems.
    Apparently, I was fool of whoie . . . . . So, search it out and see if yours is internally wired for 440 and that is why you don't have torque. My guess is that it is normally shipped that way.
    I'll admit to ignorance to the wireing on those damned things. maybe someone can send a pic or wireing chart for you to do a compare to.
    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1268
    Thanks Guys;
    My model motor is a leeson 192074.00 which I think is a 2 pole motor. I checked today and the VFD is set for 4. Could that be the torque problem?

    Runner, thanks Bud! I said that my info would most likely be sketchy. I was running at 2500 with a feed rate of 5 ipm which should be slow enough. I was using mist cooling with kool tool. It was (and I mean was) a 4 fluite (damn I bet I spelled that wrong) end mill, acually bofum (figure that out). Bob Warfield's great program (GWizard - Get it) recommended a greater feed rate but the damn thing (mill) just won't do it. BTW, I did check and make sure the end mill did not load up as happens with a slow feed.

    Any thought guys on the 2 vs. 4 pole screwup on VFD programming? I will order the new constant torque VFD if it will fix my system. I'm getting tired of watching all my cutting with my finger on the stop button!!!!

    Thanks Again.
    Bill
    billyjack
    Helicopter def. = Bunch of spare parts flying in close formation! USAF 1974 ;>)

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1015
    not to take this off topic, but the gwizard is a great starting place, however, there are always issues unaccounted for. i do use the gwizard as well, but have to adjust based on whats happening. also the 4 flute endmill will definitely load up. even on a pro vmc i would not run a 4 flute unless finishing. i either use 2 or 3 flute endmills. you don't need the other vfd just need to apply what you have correctly. also running too slowly builds alot of heat into the cutter. this makes the aluminum melt and stick to it. also are the endmills your using coated? do not use a tialn coating to try and cut aluminum. ticn or tin only. again i think you'll be pleasantly surprised using a flute endmill.

    btw i just finished a similar project where i was running a 1/2" 2 flute endmill i was running .375 deep and .187 woc and had zero problems.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    If your VFD is set for 4 pole and it is a 2 pole motor, I would expect it to be running at double the speed a 4 pole motor would for a given frequency.
    The rpm of an induction motor is decided by the pole count and the frequency of the supply.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1268
    Runner4404spd Thanks for the input.
    I've tried all combinations of fluted end mills 2, 3 and 4! Breakage still occurs. I've tried different speeds, different feeds, different dept of cut, heck, again, this has been going on for a couple of years and I've just now decided that there is something wrong and my VFD/Motor combination is not working as designed.
    In the past, I have watched every machine cycle like a hawk, slowed down the feed, reduced the DOC, used different flutes/types/coatings/materials and still I cannot trust this thing to perform. I have to be losing motor torque which slows the spindle and breaks the tool. I'm really amazed when folks are taking .25 doc with .25 endmills and high feed rates. Just amazes me!
    Now back to my original question. If my VFD was set for 4 poles and I'm using a 2 pole motor (which I still have to verify), will this impact the torque of the system?
    Al, I understand the rpm thing but my system is being controlled by Mach using a tach input for speed control. If I set it for 2500 rpm, the spindle runs at 2500 rpm. I guess the motor would just adjust it's speed to comply with Mach's voltage input to the controller card!

    Guys, thanks for the help. Any ideas are appreciated and I'm trying to learn this technology. It's just slow, painful and quite costly.
    Bill
    billyjack
    Helicopter def. = Bunch of spare parts flying in close formation! USAF 1974 ;>)

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    40
    Hi Bill;

    You may find that changing some setings on your existing VFD will greatly improve the apparent perfomance of your machine.

    There are quite a few parameters that affect the motor's ability to compensate for sudden loads.

    If you have the manual for your VFD, you can experiment w/ these settings pretty easily.

    The manual should explain the function of each parameter - keep track of changes so you can get back to your present configuration.

    On a standard "volts/hertz" VFD, the setings for "boost" and "acceleration" ramps can have a large effect on the ability of the motor to react to milling loads.

    If these parameters are not set correctly, the motor will slow (slip) or stall when sudden inceases in load occur - this will quickly ruin cutting tools (as you well know).

    A sensorless vector type VFD will have better low RPM performance than the volts/hertz type, but your VFD should be able to give satisfactory performance on your machine at normal milling speeds.

    You will get the best performance if the spindle gearing is set so the motor is operating close to its' synchronous speed (1800 RPM - 60 Hz).

    Check w/ the manufacturer of your VFD for the appropriate settings for your application - you should be getting better results.

    I have set up a number of different manufacturers VFD's, and find that a little experimentation can yield big improvements in perfomance depending on the application.

    There are undoubtedly several people w/ your same VFD who could better comment on the optimum parameter settings.

    Best regards;

    Art Pentz

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1015
    ok, one other thing to check... why are you using carbide endmills? use hss. for the material removal rate your going at the HSS will be fine. also use a 2 flute endmill. do you have the endmill mounted in a collet or is it in a er holder? whats the runout of the holder? also i am assuming that your slotting with your endmill and thus loading up and breaking. 4 flute will load up almost instantaneously in that type of cut and carbide is hard but brittle and not forgiving at all.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1268
    Hey Guys;
    I've just spoken with Hitachi America and he confirmed that the "# motor poles" parameter which I had set to 4 and should have been set to 2 "MAY" be the culprit. We'll see. He didn't seem too sure but heck, I'll give it a try. I'll also switch to a 2 flute HSS endmills which makes me very happy just due to the costs. Thanks Runner for the suggestion.
    Art, there are a couple of tweeks I'm going to try one at a time after testing the motor pole change just because I've been pouring over the Hitachi L2002 Inverter Instruction Manual for the last couple of days.
    I realize that I haven't done a very good job setting up this "instrument" and should have done my homewoek "up front".
    Oh well, hindsight is always 20 20. Thanks Again for all the help.
    And Cruiser, I'm sorry for barging into your thread this way.
    Bill
    billyjack
    Helicopter def. = Bunch of spare parts flying in close formation! USAF 1974 ;>)

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