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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    20

    DIY R8 Spindle

    I've had an X2 spindle sitting around for the better part of a year, unusable due to damaged spindle bearings. Working on a fixed gantry mill idea, but needed a spindle, then it dawned on me that I might be able to build a spindle using the old X2 spindle shaft, some new bearings, and a new casing (just didn't want to mess with the cast iron one).

    The spindle won't see anymore than 1hp, so R8 doesn't bother me much, and I might be able to make an ATC similar to Hoss's. The spindle will only be cutting aluminum so it probably won't be seeing any extreme forces, and will probably be using small cutters (0.25" - 0.375" with the occasional face mill/fly cutter), so it will need to be quick, shooting for 8-9k RPM.

    Anyways, heres my parts list and some drawings:
    Spindle Shaft
    Lower Bearing - 6661K480 - 6207 ZZ Deep Groove
    Upper Bearing - 6661K480 - 6306 ZZ Deep Groove

    So, few questions for a bearing newbie like me. Will these bearings even work? The lower bearing should be press fit, and the upper should be a sliding fit for preload. But, I'm having a hard time finding actual tolerance information for these fits. Can anyone direct me to a good catalog with information on these types of fits?

    Oh, last stupid question, I'm trying to find a 3-pronged internal micrometer, but for the life of me cannot find a source, anyone know where I can get one of these?

    Thanks!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle_1.jpg   Spindle_2.jpg  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    27
    Hey Kylel,
    Try this
    http://www.wisetool.com/fit.htm
    I know its metric but im sure you'll work it out.
    I would put a retainer on the bottom bearing, just so it can never come out.. Even just a cir-clip would do the job
    I'm sure it would ruin your day if it did

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1237
    How can the bottom bearing come out?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    27
    Aha .... that'll learn me for not looking at the pretty pictures...
    I didnt open the pic till now so didn't see the step...
    ill go now

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    29
    Hi,
    Just a few thoughts on your design (I'm doing something along similar lines, but only putting ER20 in the nose)
    From other threads, you'll find loads of info. as to suitable bearings, and it'll all point you to angular contacts.
    Ebay is a decent source (search FAFNIR for starters) but you need to be confident about the numbering system, not always clear.
    MSC industrial have bore mics, they're not cheap instruments, I'd spend the cash on probably 3-4 sets of sweet bearings, make plug gauges for the housings!
    Give the spindle a critical look as to bearing fits before spending the money (and time!) Top quality bearings won't help if they're slack on the spindle.
    You've not said what the housing's made from, I'm using steel to avoid slack housings when warmed up. In a perfect world, I'd just love it to run at 10k and 25deg.C. The real world might not be so accommodating! If you see a 40 deg. rise (hot but not painful!) an alloy housing will expand approx 1 "thou" more than the bearings at these sizes, and that means a need for a heavy fit when cold.
    Best of luck with the project,
    John.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by latheboy View Post
    Hey Kylel,
    Try this
    http://www.wisetool.com/fit.htm
    I know its metric but im sure you'll work it out.
    I would put a retainer on the bottom bearing, just so it can never come out.. Even just a cir-clip would do the job
    I'm sure it would ruin your day if it did
    Cool Thanks! Thats exactly what I was looking for.

    Thanks

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by JLSD View Post
    Hi,
    Just a few thoughts on your design (I'm doing something along similar lines, but only putting ER20 in the nose)
    From other threads, you'll find loads of info. as to suitable bearings, and it'll all point you to angular contacts.
    Ebay is a decent source (search FAFNIR for starters) but you need to be confident about the numbering system, not always clear.
    MSC industrial have bore mics, they're not cheap instruments, I'd spend the cash on probably 3-4 sets of sweet bearings, make plug gauges for the housings!
    Give the spindle a critical look as to bearing fits before spending the money (and time!) Top quality bearings won't help if they're slack on the spindle.
    You've not said what the housing's made from, I'm using steel to avoid slack housings when warmed up. In a perfect world, I'd just love it to run at 10k and 25deg.C. The real world might not be so accommodating! If you see a 40 deg. rise (hot but not painful!) an alloy housing will expand approx 1 "thou" more than the bearings at these sizes, and that means a need for a heavy fit when cold.
    Best of luck with the project,
    John.
    Forgot to mention the housing, its planned to be aluminum, but I'll probably change it to steel (12L14?).

    While I'd like to use angular contact bearings, I know less about them then I do deep groove ball bearings. Further I'm not really sure if the R8 spindle shaft is big enough for angular's?

    I've done some more research, 'Tri-Mics' seem to be rather rare, or extremely expensive. Enco has a digital dial bore indicator (Fowler) for less then $250 that I'm thinking about though.

    Thanks for the help so far!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by KyleL View Post
    I've had an X2 spindle sitting around for the better part of a year, unusable due to damaged spindle bearings. Working on a fixed gantry mill idea, but needed a spindle, then it dawned on me that I might be able to build a spindle using the old X2 spindle shaft, some new bearings, and a new casing (just didn't want to mess with the cast iron one).

    The spindle won't see anymore than 1hp, so R8 doesn't bother me much, and I might be able to make an ATC similar to Hoss's. The spindle will only be cutting aluminum so it probably won't be seeing any extreme forces, and will probably be using small cutters (0.25" - 0.375" with the occasional face mill/fly cutter), so it will need to be quick, shooting for 8-9k RPM.

    Anyways, heres my parts list and some drawings:
    Spindle Shaft
    Lower Bearing - 6661K480 - 6207 ZZ Deep Groove
    Upper Bearing - 6661K480 - 6306 ZZ Deep Groove

    So, few questions for a bearing newbie like me. Will these bearings even work? The lower bearing should be press fit, and the upper should be a sliding fit for preload. But, I'm having a hard time finding actual tolerance information for these fits. Can anyone direct me to a good catalog with information on these types of fits?

    Oh, last stupid question, I'm trying to find a 3-pronged internal micrometer, but for the life of me cannot find a source, anyone know where I can get one of these?

    Thanks!
    http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...0474398&ucst=t

    http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...0474424&ucst=t

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    29
    Hi,
    Just a "heads up" to bearings on ebay.
    These are one section lighter than you're considering, but still competent far a light spindle, and higher speed rated.
    The NSK website has good tech info for mounting arrangements, load capacity etc. worth a look.
    Some people might hope for cheaper, but if I didn't already have some, I'd buy the lot, pay more shipping than you, and still smile!!

    NSK 7907A5TYDULP4 Angular contact bearings NEW IN BOX


    Item number: 270536668231
    Item location: Howell, MI, United States
    Post to: Worldwide

    If you're still thinking about sprung preload it may be worth considering a "tandem pair" at front, (face to front) and opposing arrangement at rear.

    Happy building,
    Regards,
    John.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    231
    Cool... I picked up a couple sets, figured I try my own spindle some day. These look like some decent bearings to start with.

    If I completely blow it, I'm out less than $100.. Can't find the specific part number on the NSK site, but similar PN's are over 10k rpm, more with oil lube instead of grease.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    231
    Forgot to mention - I also ordered the Little Machine Shop #1407 R8 spindle shaft you mention above. (been looking at that for a while.. Thanks for the nudge to get me to buy it. ) Does the spindle have a "key" inside that the R8 collets slide into? The only R8 I've ever used is the big Grizzly mill at work, and it has something in there that rides a slot in the R8 collets. Wondering if these are the same, or do they just rely on friction of the tapers?? It almost looks like the slots in the side of the LMS R8 shaft would work for that purpose, though I realize those are probably used to peg the plastic gears to the shaft in the head. Any chance someone has some good pictures of the spindle shaft besides the ones on the LMS website?? Mine'll probably take a week to get here... I'm antsy to look at it, even though with the 500 other projects I won't get to it for some time.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Riceburner98 View Post
    Forgot to mention - I also ordered the Little Machine Shop #1407 R8 spindle shaft you mention above. (been looking at that for a while.. Thanks for the nudge to get me to buy it. ) Does the spindle have a "key" inside that the R8 collets slide into? The only R8 I've ever used is the big Grizzly mill at work, and it has something in there that rides a slot in the R8 collets. Wondering if these are the same, or do they just rely on friction of the tapers?? It almost looks like the slots in the side of the LMS R8 shaft would work for that purpose, though I realize those are probably used to peg the plastic gears to the shaft in the head. Any chance someone has some good pictures of the spindle shaft besides the ones on the LMS website?? Mine'll probably take a week to get here... I'm antsy to look at it, even though with the 500 other projects I won't get to it for some time.
    Yes, this spindle does have the R8 'Drive Key' (for lack of a better word?) its just a little peg that appears to be press fit in to the side of the spindle wall.

    There's a bunch of external keys (3 total), Top one holds the top bearing in place, as well as the 'drive' key for the metal shaft that is supposed to act as the preload spacer. The other two hold the plastic gears and lower bearing in place (as well as acting as drive keys). I'll try to take a few good pictures tomorrow if you'd like (gives me an excuse to finally press the lower bearing off lol)...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    20
    Got a lot of work left but thought I'd post a prelim mock up of what this spindle will be going on. I also made a change to my spindle design, I cannot find any source of 'cheap' abec 3/abec 5 (only seem to find abec 1, or abec 7 bearings) angular contact bearings, so I decided to double up on the deep groove bearings (6207's mentioned in the first post).

    [edit] err, on second thought I won't show anything as CNCZone's upload utility is giving me upload errors... have to try again later I guess [/edit]

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    15

    grade 5

    Mcmaster has added abec 5 angular contact bearings to there inventory...

    James

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by James H. View Post
    Mcmaster has added abec 5 angular contact bearings to there inventory...

    James
    I saw that, but their abec 5's are way more expensive then abec 7s I've seen at other vendors. I don't think I'm willing to spend $400+ on a couple abec 5s...

    Oh hey, the uploads are working today...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BridgeMill_wip1.jpg   R8_Wip2.jpg  

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    231
    Beefy! What are the columns going to be? Steel tube or extrusions? Looks similar to mine 'cept I don't have the space between the columns, so I'm doing the bearings on the front of the columns. Looking good 'n solid!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1306
    How do you preload the AC bearing pair? The upper bearing should float.

    Check out the way Herbertkabi has done his...
    http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12184
    Regards,
    Mark

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by RotarySMP View Post
    How do you preload the AC bearing pair? The upper bearing should float.

    Check out the way Herbertkabi has done his...
    http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12184
    The top bearing is supposed to be a slip fit (H6 I believe is the correct tolerance?), the bottom two are not AC bearings, but deep grove ball bearing, they will be separated by a shim on the inner race (so that the outers are not in contact with each other). The lower bearings will be press fit in to the casing and then preload set by the nut at the top of the shaft.

    Only thing I'm concerned about now is seating the lower bearings without preloading them? Hmm..

    Thanks for the link, thats a huge thread that I'll need to go through!


    Quote Originally Posted by Riceburner98
    Beefy! What are the columns going to be? Steel tube or extrusions? Looks similar to mine 'cept I don't have the space between the columns, so I'm doing the bearings on the front of the columns. Looking good 'n solid!
    The column/gantry with be 3/8" steel tubing. They will be capped with large aluminum blocks and filled with sand.

    Thanks!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2512
    I think the lower bearing of the pair will not see any prelaod. With the arrangement shown, you are preloading the upper bearing of the pair against the top bearing. Its not clear that the lower bearing of the pair actually has any function.

    Phil

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleL View Post
    The top bearing is supposed to be a slip fit (H6 I believe is the correct tolerance?), the bottom two are not AC bearings, but deep grove ball bearing, they will be separated by a shim on the inner race (so that the outers are not in contact with each other). The lower bearings will be press fit in to the casing and then preload set by the nut at the top of the shaft.

    Only thing I'm concerned about now is seating the lower bearings without preloading them? Hmm..

    Thanks!

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1306
    I agree with Phil. Differential thermal expansion between the spindle and the housing will result in preload fluctuations.
    Regards,
    Mark

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