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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Cincinnati CNC > Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37
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  1. #1
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    Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    Hey folks. It's me again!

    I'm wondering if you could shed some light on a problem I am having with my Arrow 750, Acromatic control, Kollmorgen drives?
    The spindle will run and stop just fine up to 750 rpm but if I try to stop it at 800 rpm it just coasts to a stop and I get alarm 39-37. I have checked the resistance of the regen resistor and it checks out ok.
    The alarm says to check there is no spindle drift but I don't completely understand the instructions. It says to "set the spindle setup patch on" and I have done this using the cimtrolusa password. It says to programme M3S0 in the MDI, but S-zero doesn't make the spindle spin, obvs. So I'm not sure what else to do here...

    The alarm also says it may be necessary to check parameters in the drive unit using motionlink. I have the Motionlink Plus software but was looking for some pointers on what to look for or change...

    I really appreciate any help you have to offer me. Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    I have attached the pictures of the alarm in this post
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20220930_173720_315.jpg   IMG_20220930_173729_953.jpg  

  3. #3
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    Burf86 – Checkout my OCT 3rd post Re: Looking for Sabre 1000 VFS5 TL file? It has the User Variables you wish to examine and more...
    If this drive worked in the past and you have not muddled with anything; it may be the PSR4 Drive Power Supply Regen Circuit needs repair.
    The resistors should have been 4.4 OHMs each and 2.2 OHMs wired in Parallel. The cooling fan should run at power on as well.

  4. #4
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    Thanks, gwood!

    I have checked the parameters and there are a few that don't match up with the spreadsheet...
    My machine is an Arrow 750 with a 6000 RPM spindle. I'm not 100% sure if it's the high-torque version, though. I will assume it is because the first 13 lines match up.
    These are the parameters I have;

    X45 = 3 (Should be 1)
    X47 = 2000 (Should be 5000)
    X50 = 4000 (Should be 5000)
    X220 = 10750 (Spreadsheet is blank)

    Do I go ahead and change these parameters to what it says on the spreadsheet?

    This drive has worked in the past but I had a problem with the DC bus getting high voltage from the mains, causing the regen to come on even while the machine was sitting idle. The transformer has been changed from 415v to 460v and now the regen doesn't come on but the spindle won't stop at 800 rpm. It will stop at 750 rpm.
    There is only one resistor and it checks out at 4.4 ohms.

    The regen circuit has been inspected and a fault could not be found.

    Thanks for your help!

  5. #5
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    Did you look at the fault codes using motion link connected to the spindle drive, it should give you a reason why the spindle faulted. Did you monitor the DC bus voltage when this problem is occurring? Gwood is correct, it looks like the regen circuit is not working correctly and you can verify based on the bus voltage. The regen should start above 380VDC on the bus. You need to be watching all of the drives for a over voltage fault on any of the axis drives when this problem occurs.

    MIKE CNC Machine Services INC | Cincinnati Milacron MachinesCNC Machine Services

  6. #6
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37, error 83

    Thanks for the help.
    I don't get to play around with the machine very often, so sorry for the delayed response.

    The error code is Err 83 Bad or out of range

    It's hard to check for these faults "when the problem occurs" as I'm on my own in the workshop so can't run around the back of the machine and see what lights are on at exactly the right time but I don't see any overvolt lights.
    The spindle will stop at 800rpm but at 900 rpm it just coasts to a stop. You can see the regen tries to stop it but then gives up.
    The fault light comes on the VFS5 comes on - but is reset with a data reset.

    I found this thread where error 83 comes up; https://www.cnczone.com/forums/cinci...are-forum.html

    ERROR 83 “BAD OR OUT OF RANGE” SEVERITY 2
    You entered a parameter to an instruction that was too large or too small. Check Appendix F for limits on variables. This
    error can also occur when a parameter is in the wrong format, such as a character string where a number is expected.
    This error breaks program execution if the instruction is issued from the user program.

    Mike also talks about the machine receiving a voltage spike that messed with parameters.
    It is my helping hand's thought that my machine received a voltage spike from local solar panels.

    By the way, where is Mike these days? He doesn't reply to my emails anymore, I hope he is ok.
    Last edited by Burf86; 10-14-2022 at 04:53 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    Mike Kilroy passed in 2021 after a bout with Covid-19; see "https://www.newcomerdayton.com/Obituary/207707/Michael-Kilroy/Dayton-OH" we will miss him dearly!

    P.S. the VFS5 should keep the last 15 Alarms in the Alarm History

  8. #8
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    Ah, man. I am very sad to hear that about Mike. The man is a legend in my eyes. One can find such extensive replies to questions all over the CNC Zone forums from him. I wondered how he had the time to be so helpful, what a great guy he was.

    I think the "Error 14 Power Bus" is the one in question...

  9. #9
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    I also get 83 Bad or out of range.
    I found the TL file just now as well, at the end of the list is Error 208 Internal.

  10. #10
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    Here is the TL file. I'm hoping against all hope that this will provide some information for more help...

    ;TL VFS5 v1.1.1
    ;
    MOTOR = V-2031EN
    ;
    AMPS = 40
    VOLTS = 230
    ;
    ;
    ;UNITS:
    ;
    INUM = 4095
    IDEN = 100
    VNUM = 44739
    VDEN = 10
    ;
    ;
    ;TUNING VARIABLES:
    ;
    KP = 2000
    KPROP = 2000
    KV = 7705
    KVI = 1000
    LPF = 1
    LPFHZ = 100
    ;
    ;
    ;PROTECTED VARIABLES:
    ;
    AMPS = 40
    ANGLD = 0
    BSLIP = 3500
    FOLDD = 500
    FOLDR = 1600
    FOLDT = 800
    IBASE = 98
    ICONT = 40
    IMAX = 100
    IND = 1
    IZERO = 25
    MADV = 0
    MANG = 165
    MSLIP = 0
    POLES = 512
    SGOOSE = 0
    SLOPE = 30
    VADVTBL = 12500
    VBASE = 2500
    VMAX = 12000
    VOLTS = 230


    ERR 208 'C12' INTERNAL

  11. #11
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    You should set the user parameters to the values on the PDF:
    X45 = 3 (Should be set to 1)
    X47 = 2000 (Should be set to 5000) This is the gain in M3 / M4
    X50 = 4000 (Should be set to 5000) This is the gain in Orient and rigid Tapping

  12. #12
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    Thank you for the reply gwood.
    I made those changes to the parameters but it has not made a difference to the problem, unfortunately.

  13. #13
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    As Mike advised earlier; Check the fault codes using motion link connected to the spindle drive; without shutting off the machine disconnect. The true fault should be there.

  14. #14
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    I don't know if I am doing it right...
    I go into motionlink and scan for drives, click exit instead of breaking the link.

    I go into BDS5 other settings
    Faults and status
    Show error history
    Err 14 power bus
    Err 63 Not at this level
    (Those are the only two errors it shows and it shows them multiple times.)

    I also had a look in the Drive settings tab and it says the Bus voltage is 230VDC. Isn't the bus voltage 320VDC?

  15. #15
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    Re: Spindle Failed to Stop, Alarm 39-37

    Not sure what variable or setting you are looking at; but the incoming power should be 230 VDC balanced Wye power.
    Did you monitor the DC bus voltage when this problem is occurring?
    It looks like the regen circuit is not working correctly and you can verify based on the bus voltage.
    The regen should start above 380VDC on the bus.
    The Regen Circuit is on the PSR4 Drive power supply and has little to do with the VFS5 spindle drive.
    If you don't have the tools to look at it then have the PSR4 repaired.

  16. #16
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    Just a typo in Greg's response but thought i could clarify. Incoming power to PSR should be 3 phase 230VAC (not VDC).

    The DC power to the spindle drive comes via the DC Bus which is based on a scaled power factor from the PSR's AC input.

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