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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Spindles / VFD > spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed
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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2021
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    11

    Smile spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Good evening.
    Please sorry for my english.
    I would like to ask for advice.
    I just redesigned my cnc to spindle speed control and I have a problem. The spindle turns on. Speed control works, but irregularly (+/- 2000 rpm) and not at max speed.(21700). I searched a lot here on the forum, but I was not successful.

    My setup:
    Mach3,
    Huanyang VFD
    2.2KW spindle
    and BSMCE04U board

    My settings:
    PD005: High-end frequency: 400 Hz
    PD006: Middle frequency: 2.5 Hz
    PD007: Low-end frequency: 0.5 Hz
    PD008: High-end voltage: 220 V
    PD009: Middle voltage: 15 V
    PD010: Low-end voltage: 8 V
    PD070: Speed control input: 0 means 0-10V.
    PD071: Speed control responsiveness: Leave at the factory setting of 20.
    PD072: High-end frequency: Set to 400. This sets the frequency represented by the top end of the speed control.
    PD073: Low-end frequency: Set to 120. This sets the frequency represented by the bottom end of the speed control.
    PD141: Rated motor voltage: Set to 220V.
    PD142: Rated motor current: Set to 11A.
    PD143: Number of motor poles: Set to 4.
    PD144: RPM at 50Hz: Set to 3000.

    I read 3 days without success. I reset vfd + new settings, reinstalled mach3, reinstalled the laptop, tried the 5v control, nothing will help. still max 21700 rpm and speed fluctuations. I set 20000 and the spindle rotates from 19000 to 21000. when I set 24000 it stops at 21700 without fluctuating.

    can someone please help me what next?
    thank you for your time

  2. #2
    Registered
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    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1651

    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    check VFD + motor.
    Check if there is automatic motor recognition on the VFD. Are you sure your motor is 4 poles? RPM at 50Hz should be 700 then ? check it.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    12819

    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Quote Originally Posted by hociSK View Post
    Good evening.
    Please sorry for my english.
    I would like to ask for advice.
    I just redesigned my cnc to spindle speed control and I have a problem. The spindle turns on. Speed control works, but irregularly (+/- 2000 rpm) and not at max speed.(21700). I searched a lot here on the forum, but I was not successful.

    My setup:
    Mach3,
    Huanyang VFD
    2.2KW spindle
    and BSMCE04U board

    My settings:
    PD005: High-end frequency: 400 Hz
    PD006: Middle frequency: 2.5 Hz
    PD007: Low-end frequency: 0.5 Hz
    PD008: High-end voltage: 220 V
    PD009: Middle voltage: 15 V
    PD010: Low-end voltage: 8 V
    PD070: Speed control input: 0 means 0-10V.
    PD071: Speed control responsiveness: Leave at the factory setting of 20.
    PD072: High-end frequency: Set to 400. This sets the frequency represented by the top end of the speed control.
    PD073: Low-end frequency: Set to 120. This sets the frequency represented by the bottom end of the speed control.
    PD141: Rated motor voltage: Set to 220V.
    PD142: Rated motor current: Set to 11A.
    PD143: Number of motor poles: Set to 4.
    PD144: RPM at 50Hz: Set to 3000.

    I read 3 days without success. I reset vfd + new settings, reinstalled mach3, reinstalled the laptop, tried the 5v control, nothing will help. still max 21700 rpm and speed fluctuations. I set 20000 and the spindle rotates from 19000 to 21000. when I set 24000 it stops at 21700 without fluctuating.

    can someone please help me what next?
    thank you for your time
    Is this your spindle motor spec's.

    Voltage=220

    Amps=???

    HZ=400

    RPM=24000
    Mactec54

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    11

    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Good day and thank you for all the answers.

    Algirdas:

    Which means pleas with check VFD + motor?
    Where do I find pleas automatic motor recognition on the VFD?
    My spindle is 400v 3 phase and zero. Is it 4 poles?


    mactec54:

    I tried with 10 or 11 amps.

  5. #5
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1651

    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    check VFD + motor?
    disconnect the VFD from control. Leave the motor connceted to VFD ( and power supply, of course ). Set parameter so that you can run / stop the motor using VFD panel only.
    Where do I find pleas automatic motor recognition on the VFD?
    check the parameters of VFD.
    My spindle is 400v 3 phase and zero. Is it 4 poles?
    No. Phases and voltage are not related to pole number. The number of poles you should find in the description of the motor ar you need to know the design of the motor or you can discover by inspecting the motor.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    11

    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    disconnect the VFD from control. Leave the motor connceted to VFD ( and power supply, of course ). Set parameter so that you can run / stop the motor using VFD panel only.

    check the parameters of VFD.

    No. Phases and voltage are not related to pole number. The number of poles you should find in the description of the motor ar you need to know the design of the motor or you can discover by inspecting the motor.

    Thank you Algirdas.
    I'll try what you recommend and let you know what I found out

  7. #7
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    12819

    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Quote Originally Posted by hociSK View Post
    Good day and thank you for all the answers.

    Algirdas:

    Which means pleas with check VFD + motor?
    Where do I find pleas automatic motor recognition on the VFD?
    My spindle is 400v 3 phase and zero. Is it 4 poles?


    mactec54:

    I tried with 10 or 11 amps.
    400V 3 Phase or is it 400Hz 3Phase either way you have some Parameters set incorrect

    Can you post a link to the spindle motor or a photo of it
    Mactec54

  8. #8
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    Jan 2005
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    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Quote Originally Posted by hociSK View Post
    Good day and thank you for all the answers.

    Algirdas:

    Which means pleas with check VFD + motor?
    Where do I find pleas automatic motor recognition on the VFD?
    My spindle is 400v 3 phase and zero. Is it 4 poles?


    mactec54:

    I tried with 10 or 11 amps.
    2.2Kw is not normally 10 or 11 amps post a link to your spindle

    So you have a 400v 3Phase power supply to the VFD Drive
    Mactec54

  9. #9

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    Sep 2021
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    11

    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    400V 3 Phase or is it 400Hz 3Phase either way you have some Parameters set incorrect

    Can you post a link to the spindle motor or a photo of it
    Hi
    I bought this.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3295...979e7818086924
    220v
    it still worked normally. just as I control through mach3, swinging speed and it doesn't go to max speed

  10. #10

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    Sep 2021
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    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    2.2Kw is not normally 10 or 11 amps post a link to your spindle

    So you have a 400v 3Phase power supply to the VFD Drive
    no i have 220v power supply.

  11. #11
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    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Quote Originally Posted by hociSK View Post
    no i have 220v power supply.
    Then your spindle can not be 400v
    Mactec54

  12. #12
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    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Quote Originally Posted by hociSK View Post
    Hi
    I bought this.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3295...979e7818086924
    220v
    it still worked normally. just as I control through mach3, swinging speed and it doesn't go to max speed
    Ok so you have an air-cooled 220v 2 Pole 400Hz 24000 RPM spindle

    So is yours, the 1.5Kw or the 2.2Kw ???
    Mactec54

  13. #13
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    Mar 2017
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    855

    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    If your spindle requires 400v and your VFD is 240v in / 240v out then that is your problem.

    Feeding a motor half the voltage it needs results in either the motor running at half speed, not running at all or running poorly for a short time before breaking.

    There are VFDs that can accept 240v 1ph in to 380v 3ph out. The VFD always has to be matched to the specs on the spindles name plate. You can't use a 110v outlet for a 240v VFD or a 240v outlet for a 380v VFD etc (unless it's 240v in / 380v out).

    Also, if you're using 1ph power then the VFD should be a few sizes larger. A 4.5kw VFD is a good idea for a 2.2kw 3ph spindle.

  14. #14

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    Sep 2021
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    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Good evening.
    I just tried your advice. Spindle set for hand control. When i set to VFD 10000rpm it's ok. And even 24000 is also possible. I switch to control via mach3 and do the same again. 21700rpm max or lees rpm with fluctuations.
    Here one pictures of the spindle. https://ibb.co/xJw9HhZ Set to 2 poles and still the same. But only through computer control. I think I will order a new control board.

  15. #15
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    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Quote Originally Posted by hociSK View Post
    Good evening.
    I just tried your advice. Spindle set for hand control. When i set to VFD 10000rpm it's ok. And even 24000 is also possible. I switch to control via mach3 and do the same again. 21700rpm max or lees rpm with fluctuations.
    Here one pictures of the spindle. https://ibb.co/xJw9HhZ Set to 2 poles and still the same. But only through computer control. I think I will order a new control board.
    Here are the Parameters you need set in the VFD Drive

    In Mach3 Ports & Pins you need to set PWM Base to 100

    Pulley Ratio ( 1 ) Max speed 24000 Min Speed 7200= 120Hz Parameter setting in VFD Drive

    Pulley Ratio you can change to match the spindle max speed


    Huanyang Mactec54
    2.2Kw 220v 400Hz Air Cooled

    PD000=0 ( 1 For Parameter Lock )

    PD001=0 (1 For Remote Control)

    PD002=0 ( 1 For 0-10v Terminal Control or Remote Trim Pot Control )
    ( J1 Also Needs to be set for Remote Terminal Control 1-2 jumper connection )

    PD003=400

    PD004=400

    PD005=400

    PD006=5

    PD007=20

    PD008=220 (Motor Rated Voltage )

    PD009=15

    PD010=15

    PD011=120 ( 120 Minimum Setting VFD, 150 is Safe for air cooled for startup )

    PD013= 08 is for Factory reset, Only use this to set VFD to Factory Default Settings

    PD014 Acceleration=8 ( Adjust to suit)

    PD015 Deceleration=8 (Adjust to suit) ( PD015 is ignored IF PD26=1 Then the Spindle will Coast to a Stop)

    PD023=0 ( Forward Run Only )

    PD041=8 ( Carrier Frequency up to 10 Max for these Spindle motors)

    PD120=120 ( Stall Prevention )

    PD141=220 ( Motor Rated Voltage )

    PD142=9 ( Motor Max Amps 2.2Kw Spindle 9 amp )

    PD143=2 ( Motor Number of Poles)

    PD144=3000 (Max Motor RPM) 3,000= (24,000)

    PD070=0 ( This may need to be set to 1 if Control Voltage is 0-5v )

    PD072=400

    PD073=120 ( 120 Minimum RPM Setting 150 is Safe for air cooled spindles at startup )

    PD174=11 ( To Be Set to the VFD Drives Max Rated Output Amps )
    Mactec54

  16. #16

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    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    mactec54: thanks for advice. I'll try tomorrow. Tomorrow I'll write what happened.

  17. #17

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    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Good evening.

    I tried your advice today. unfortunately without success. but I found this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uoz...=CNCWoodworker
    That's exactly my problem. I think there will be a problem in VFD. The speed is already running at 24000.(could the spindle be turned on via the computer and the speed set on the VFD? ) I just changed the control from 10v to 5v. It's enough for me for now. I was still milling at 24000rpm. I have to buy a new VFD. The problem was not solved. But thank you very much for your time and your advice. I don't know when, but when I buy a new VFD i writing if it works.

    Have a nice evening

  18. #18
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    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Quote Originally Posted by hociSK View Post
    Good evening.

    I tried your advice today. unfortunately without success. but I found this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uoz...=CNCWoodworker
    That's exactly my problem. I think there will be a problem in VFD. The speed is already running at 24000.(could the spindle be turned on via the computer and the speed set on the VFD? ) I just changed the control from 10v to 5v. It's enough for me for now. I was still milling at 24000rpm. I have to buy a new VFD. The problem was not solved. But thank you very much for your time and your advice. I don't know when, but when I buy a new VFD i writing if it works.

    Have a nice evening
    Your problem is most likely not the VFD Drive, you need to check with a meter the output from your control /Breakout Board PWM to analog 0-10v

    Use MDI mode in your control and do M3S12000 and check the voltage it should be around 5v if the PWM to analog 0-10v is working correct, if this is not correct then you need to make adjustment's in Mach3 until you get this voltage correct
    Mactec54

  19. #19

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    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Hi mactec54. Thank you for still trying to help me. Ok, I'll try tomorrow and write again

  20. #20

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    Re: spindle speed fluctuations and not max speed

    Good evening mactec54.
    I thought I'd have time to look at it sooner. yesterday and today was impossible. but tomorrow there will be time and I will measure and write what I found out.

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