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  1. #1
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    SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    I posted a question on the Smithy site as to why their Detroit Tools CNC machines division has been blank since last year. Have not gotten any answers yet. Wondering if the worldwide supply chain problems are keeping them from getting new inventory from China and if Tormach is having the same kind of problems.

  2. #2

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    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Look what's happening to new car stock, grocery store shelves and even hardware sores. Crazy times coming, I think the least of our problem (arguably) is machine inventory. There is no doubt a problem and I think at least, the USA will start to understand the value of "Made In the USA". I had read the Chinese President told his citizens to stockpile food (Wall Street Journal) Scary as everything comes from China.

  3. #3

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    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Made in the US or Made in China really isn't relevant to the supply chain issues in my opinion. Yes, there is a huge shortage of imported goods right now. There is also a huge shortage of domestic products as well. My shop has been struggling to get anything we need for more than a year now and roughly 90% of what we use is made in the US. When we do have what we need, like everyone else, we can't find people who actually show up on time and put a solid day's work in. We've increased wages shop wide over 60% in the last 2 years to retain and try to attract people but even new people with zero experience are complaining about our starting wage despite it being on par or better than anyone else in our local area and the fact that it comes with a complete package of benefits. No materials, no supplies, no people, all add up to no product, it doesn't really matter where that product is made.

  4. #4

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    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Not being made in the USA is the issue. Things aren't getting in from the ports, or not even getting to the ports. It was a particularly sad sign when covid blew up March 2020 and we were rushing masks in from China. The Walmarts and Amazons are pushing out independent stores, they all sell nothing but Chinese made junk/semi junk. Could you imagine a cold war (heaven forbid a full out war) with China? They'd stop supplying us and we'd be dead in the water. I dunno, but this stuff sends chills down my spine, I can't imagine our children's world.
    As for your employee shortage, I'd go into the whole, 11 million jobs open in America and nobody wants them, but that would border on some pretty political commentary.
    Yes, Tormach and Grizzly have been very hot/cold on what they have, and when they will have it again.

  5. #5

    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    All the supply chains are down .
    The plant fire in Texas has had a massive impact on the world plastic supply and particularly the auto industry . I'm having to buy thousands of feet of Malaysian aluminum because the American supply is down and it has been for a while . Aluminum prices are ridiculous right now and the suppliers are having a tough time supplying it right now .

    As far as China goes , everything coming out of that country should have had heavy tariffs 20 years ago to even up the playing field .
    And a deadly virus leaking out from a lab should be a wake up call

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigster View Post
    Not being made in the USA is the issue. Things aren't getting in from the ports, or not even getting to the ports. It was a particularly sad sign when covid blew up March 2020 and we were rushing masks in from China. The Walmarts and Amazons are pushing out independent stores, they all sell nothing but Chinese made junk/semi junk. Could you imagine a cold war (heaven forbid a full out war) with China? They'd stop supplying us and we'd be dead in the water. I dunno, but this stuff sends chills down my spine, I can't imagine our children's world.
    As for your employee shortage, I'd go into the whole, 11 million jobs open in America and nobody wants them, but that would border on some pretty political commentary.
    Yes, Tormach and Grizzly have been very hot/cold on what they have, and when they will have it again.

    The reason Amazon and Walmart succeed at pushing out smaller stores is that most consumers are just as greedy as the corporations they villify. They don't care about anything other than saving money and their own convenience. We could easily have supported small independent business but we don't care we just want the lowest cost and easiest solution.

  7. #7
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    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Hi,

    We could easily have supported small independent business but we don't care we just want the lowest cost and easiest solution.
    Never a truer word spoken. We consumers are to blame for the 'everything comes out of China phenomenon', we bought the cheap clothes so that all our domestic manufacturers went bust....
    and I could substitute 'tools' or 'electronics' or just about any other product category for 'clothes'.

    As far as China goes , everything coming out of that country should have had heavy tariffs 20 years ago to even up the playing field
    Isn't that the government imposing a price dis-incentive to stop us from buying Chinese made when we should be buying locally made by choice? Consumers poor
    and thoughtless choices, my own included, are EXACTLY the reason that the Chinese have prospered while our local businesses go bust. If the government seeks
    to redress the balance aby imposing a 20% tariff the the price of the item goes up by 20% for everyone.....is that the best way?

    Craig

  8. #8

    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,

    Isn't that the government imposing a price dis-incentive to stop us from buying Chinese made when we should be buying locally made by choice? Consumers poor
    and thoughtless choices, my own included, are EXACTLY the reason that the Chinese have prospered while our local businesses go bust. If the government seeks
    to redress the balance aby imposing a 20% tariff the the price of the item goes up by 20% for everyone.....is that the best way?

    Craig
    the 20% tax was a political ploy
    unfortunately I believe heavy tariffs is the right way . I can buy a pair of jeans now for much less than I did 40 years ago . We have grown accustomed to buying lots of cheap stuff since the chinese flood to the markets , aside from autos and such which have become quite expensive .

    China doesn't play fair in any way shape or form . We can keep feeding them our money until they become the largest and most erratic super power , then it's too late to change .
    Heavy tariffs that even up the playing field is an incentive for companys to bring work back . It's great to have cheap products , but , when manufacturing jobs continue to leave the country then those cheap products become a necessity not a benefit .

    I'm as guilty as the next guy when it comes to buying chinese , and most times it's difficult not to , so I hold no self righteousness in that aspect .

  9. #9
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    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Hi,
    but then China is a huge market for western companies, GM comes to mind, the only profit they really make comes from manufacturing in China and selling
    to Chinese customers. If the US imposes 'heavy tariffs' on China, would not China have to retaliate?....and whom do you suppose would hurt the most?

    Neither have you addressed the problem that if you tariff certain products, and the US has applied tariffs to aluminum and steel, does that not escalate the price of those products
    in the US?

    In recent months Australia managed to piss China off by demanding a thorough examination of the origin of COVID and in retaliation China imposed an un-official ban on Australian coal....
    only for China to have to back down and accept Australian coal to mitigate the severe coal shortage they face. Using trade as a punitive tool in politics can blow up in your face
    dramatically.

    If you are of the opinion that the US can impose tariffs or other trade barriers with impunity the I think you are wrong. The Biden administration does not appear to applied any more
    tariffs than Trump has already applied but neither does it seem to be backing away from those already in place. What do you suppose that means...if anything?

    Craig

  10. #10

    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Japan is giving incentives to Japanese companies to get their manufacturing out of china and back onto their own soil . More countries need to be doing the same

    I.m well aware of retaliation on tariffs . The 20% tariff that the US put on Canadian aluminum was only met with the same . We as consumers did not win on any of that . The cost of my aluminum has gone up as has yours , and and since I have a set profit margin product costs had gone up . The customers understand and the wheel keeps turning
    The point of using tariffs is to force the other guy to play fair . Unfortunately it is also used to flex and try to force the other into submission . China doesn't play fair , and we are at a point that flexing and tariffs are both needed . Otherwise we can all kiss our childrens futures away because in our own selfishness need to buy more cheap tupperware from china

    30+ years ago china was insignificant . We managed without them before and we could manage without them in the future . I'm a Canadian not American , it's not an American problem it's a world problem and the world leaders need to put china in it's place . Problem is that every world leader is too scared and concentrated on sealing the next election that they are terrified to rock the boat and take a temporary hit in the economies .

    I watched the damage first hand when our work started to go to china and a lot of shops closed over a short period of time . The more diverse shops or the shops willing to change managed to do ok but 20+ years later work still continues to flow away . It's not good , without manufacturing you've got nothing

    China needs us and we don't need them . They need our resources and even food and still all the leaders are too scared to push back and say "enough screwing us" .
    China holds Canadians , Americans and numerous other people from other countries as literally imprison hostages until they get their way . They are constantly flexing muscle as they continue to build their military . I think as a whole the chinese people are nice people but they are controlled by a dangerous self serving dictatorship which we all continue to support

    At least thats my opinion . I'm just a guy trying to get through life and hope that my kids have a better future than me

  11. #11
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    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Hi,

    Japan is giving incentives to Japanese companies to get their manufacturing out of china and back onto their own soil . More countries need to be doing the same
    I have observed the same thing, and yet its not a tariff, but has been effective in Japanese companies exiting China, although not always to Japan. I think that is a more creative
    way to achieve the result. Whether China chooses to retaliate is more than I can guess.

    The 20% tariff that the US put on Canadian aluminum was only met with the same . We as consumers did not win on any of that .
    I believe we are in agreement there, I think trade wars don't result in any winners, maybe at best, a country/economy that loses least.
    I need to point out that I'm a Kiwi, and that the US tariff has been applied to aluminum manufactured in New Zealand, no doubt to the disadvantage
    of the manufacturers, but no tariff is applied to any aluminum (or steel either) imports into New Zealand, and the price has remained stable, not cheap, but stable.

    China needs us and we don't need them
    This is where our agreement becomes much weaker. Yes, China needs us and they have a growing economy with 25% of the worlds population........so we don't need them....I don't think so.
    As a local example New Zealand is responsible for approx 35% of the worlds export trade in dairy products, a big player in a market despite being a small nation. 45% of New Zealands
    dairy exports are to China, so we need them too.

    China holds Canadians , Americans and numerous other people from other countries as literally imprison hostages until they get their way . They are constantly flexing muscle as they continue to build their military . I think as a whole the chinese people are nice people but they are controlled by a dangerous self serving dictatorship which we all continue to support
    I, regrettably must agree with your sentiment, that is that the Chinese Communist Party behaves like a dictatorship of the bad kind, and tries to use all its power
    to determine ALL other nations the course of history.

    Does not the US attempt to dominate the world stage...or the Russians....or the French or the English if they could get away with it? All have had a go in the past.

    The truth is that China has come out of a dark age and they are becoming a superpower whether we like it or not. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle on this one!
    The question is more about how that develops, and ultimately what the Chinese people want. I'm sure that the CCP expect to hold power indefinitely and are using all the age-old
    methods to secure that end but ultimately the Chinese people will have the last say. It is pleasing that as you say that the Chinese people are nice, I just rather hope that they can say
    the same about us Westerners.

    Craig

  12. #12

    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Japan is not implementing tariffs but they are giving generous incentives for companies to move their operations back . They see the writing on the wall and I think more countries need to do the same
    China has a large economy but I think it is fragile and it can be crippled pretty easily . While their technology is getting better they are still the worlds dollar store .

    The thing about domination is it's not always about force , if your married you'll know what I'm getting at . China is out to dominate all the product markets and they are doing a good job of it . If one guys economy is going up then the likelihood is someone elses is going down . With china , their economy is going up and with it is their ever growing military , they are a threat in many ways
    Whether the chinese people think we are nice or not is hard to say . I've worked with many who were fresh from over there and they were very nice and respectful , so I would only hope . At the same time I am sure there are a lot that don't , but thats the way it is anywhere . I've learned over my life to take a person on face value rather than where they came from

    I love New Zealand beef . It reminds me of old family beef that roamed free , except for the months of 4-5ft of snow , they don't do so well in that

  13. #13
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    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Hi,

    I love New Zealand beef
    Me too, just as bloody well!

    China has a large economy but I think it is fragile and it can be crippled pretty easily
    Very true. Much is made of the fact that China is the second largest economy, but that is somewhat deceptive. On the basis of GDP per capita China is the 64th economy
    in the world. We westerners fail to understand that because of the huge population of China that on average the Chinese are still poor, very much better than they used to be only
    a couple of decades ago, but still poor none-the-less.

    By virtue of numbers however means that the CCP has at their disposal 'the worlds dollar store' they flex their political muscle in ways that we don't like.

    It would be a hard headed westerner that could in any way fault a nation like China for attempting to improve the standard of living for their citizens from 64th globally to somewhat better, or say
    Kenyans or Brazilians or Vietnamese or anyone else from doing like wise.

    Your attitude, and broadly my attitude, to reducing China's economic clout and thereby their political influence could only come about by denying the Chinese people a more prosperous future.
    Are we right to demand that Chinese citizens should 'atone' for their government, especially as they don't seem to have any choice in the matter?

    Craig

  14. #14
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    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    If one guys economy is going up then the likelihood is someone elses is going down
    There are a limited number of people on Earth. The more people can be educated and made to produce things people want to buy, the more the economy of the world will go up. And when the economy of the world goes up, there's actually room for the economy for everyone to go up at the same time. This is the potential upside of "globalist trade policies" -- assuming everyone can cooperate, it is actually a win-win for everyone. And, because the global economy grows, the number of things invented gets bigger. The way a low-skill employed worker in the US lives today, would in almost all ways be considered fit for a king 200 years ago (except for the number of flunkeys they could order around -- can't wait for those household robots to appear :-D )

    The problems, of course, show up when someone decides that they can do even better by letting others cooperate and then defect and not cooperate themselves. There is sometimes a strong incentive to enrich yourself more in the short turn, at the cost of making everyone worse off in the long term. Short term is very easily visible, long term is hard to imagine and less concrete. And, if enough people end up doing this, the cooperators end up losing out, and end up having to defect themselves, and we all make slower progress and the economy grows less.

    Anyway -- just thought I'd add a little optimism to the "someone must lose for someone else to win" theme. All the best parts of human history (and the best built companies) come from a growth mindset, not a zero-sum mindset!

  15. #15

    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    The problem is that the people are still poor . The government is in full control of the money and they are keeping their own people poor . The wealth has benefited many but for the population it has benefited a small percentage .
    I take no issue with a country bettering itself for it's people , it would be heartless otherwise . Huge amounts of money is going straight to military . Other money has gone out of the country which has caused housing markets to go absolutely nuts . Thats only one common example that we as citizen recognize . They are squirreling money around the world and it's not benefiting their people .

    Breaking them down is more about getting them in line with the rest of the civilized world , not destroying them

  16. #16

    Re: SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    There are a limited number of people on Earth. The more people can be educated and made to produce things people want to buy, the more the economy of the world will go up. And when the economy of the world goes up, there's actually room for the economy for everyone to go up at the same time. This is the potential upside of "globalist trade policies" -- assuming everyone can cooperate, it is actually a win-win for everyone. And, because the global economy grows, the number of things invented gets bigger. The way a low-skill employed worker in the US lives today, would in almost all ways be considered fit for a king 200 years ago (except for the number of flunkeys they could order around -- can't wait for those household robots to appear :-D )

    The problems, of course, show up when someone decides that they can do even better by letting others cooperate and then defect and not cooperate themselves. There is sometimes a strong incentive to enrich yourself more in the short turn, at the cost of making everyone worse off in the long term. Short term is very easily visible, long term is hard to imagine and less concrete. And, if enough people end up doing this, the cooperators end up losing out, and end up having to defect themselves, and we all make slower progress and the economy grows less.

    Anyway -- just thought I'd add a little optimism to the "someone must lose for someone else to win" theme. All the best parts of human history (and the best built companies) come from a growth mindset, not a zero-sum mindset!
    I'm not going to disagree with you by any means . Every country has something to offer and everyone can prosper and live a good life . It's the bad part of humanity that prevents this happening .
    We recently had mass flooding and most of the roads are knocked out , and our province has been cut off from the rest of the country . There are methods to keep the supply chains moving including fuel and food . Within days the fuel and food panic had nearly wiped everything out . They caused a shortage . Similar happened with the toilet paper shortage when covid hit . While most people are honest and kind there is something about human nature that is nothing but destructive . Not that I wanted to throw a spin on your positive note but how we can get past it is beyond me .
    I suppose I sounded harsh in what I've had to say about china but thats the way I see it

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