584,871 active members*
5,427 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    79

    Exclamation Symbolic FAPT TURN

    I just purchased a Hardinge Chnc II with a 10tf. The machine runs great but the fapt is not working right. For starters the material and autofapt file are missing. The manual indicates these files should be shown under the family program files soft key. Nothing shows up. The problem with using the fapt is the menus dont show up on the screen. I can entery data blind and the soft keys change as in correction or back/next page. But nothing I enter shows up on the screen. I dont know if this is related to the missing files or something else. The good news that I have 3 punch tapes that have parameters , fapt parameters and chnc macros. Bad news the machine dosnt have a tape reader. PS my 6m does have a tape reader .
    If anyone has seem this and know how to fix it Please let me know.
    And is the fapt program stored on the yellow PC cassette.
    Thanks Drew
    If I had something important to say it would be here.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1511
    I am not going to lie. I don't know crap about the FAPT side on the 10T control. I have done a lot of work on my old 10T control but nothing with FAPT.

    I have attached some procedures on initilizing the FAPT side and other things. I don't know if this will help your problem. Make sure you have everything backed up. The PMC data can not be punched out via RS232 so I attached a blank form that I use to write down the data.

    The yellow PC cassette that is mounted to the main board is for the ladder logic.

    Stevo
    Attached Files Attached Files

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    79
    Thanks for the reply! I am a little concerned about reseting the FAPT
    Are you sure I should try this first?
    I havent backed up this machine but will do it before anything else.
    Is the PMC the 'pc' side of the control?
    Do I just need to backup the nc parameters and PMC. Or is there more?
    ThX Drew
    If I had something important to say it would be here.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1511
    I have had to clear the FAPT a few times before. However it's been many years and I am not 100% positive but I don't think anything else got cleared. As I said before I don't know anything about the FAPT side for programming ect. So I don't know of anything else to try first. Anyone with experience in this area can feel free to jump in.

    Your ladder is on the yellow cassett. So you need to get your PMC parameters out. They can not be punched out via RS232 thats why I have attached a blank form for writting these down in my last post. You then should backup all your programs. Make sure you get the 8000&9000 programs. There are parameters that lock these programs and if they are locked they will not be sent out via RS232 when trying to backup the machine. Also get your parameters out through the Service softkey, should be [Service],[Punch],[All]. I don't remember what else you can punch out. You should be able to get tool offsets, work coordinates, variables. When viewing in these areas over arrow until you see punch and read softkeys. If they don't show up then you can not back them up.

    These are all the things that I back up just as standard.

    Stevo

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    816
    I'm back to working on my 10TF, almost like the one blakemachine has on his Hitachi Seiki HT. I almost am ready to go power on with it.

    It has Symbolic FAPT.

    The FAPT software is 5502 and 5521. Which seems to be the same as others I have seen posted on here.

    I do not have the FAPT parameters. Wish I did. Anyone have some FAPT parameters? Or know how to set them up?

    The system is built but not on the machine yet, the machine will be finished before the end of Sept. 2011.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    0
    gbowne1,

    I don't know if its any use to you but we used to have a 15-TF machine, I've still got the parameter backup for it and I've also got the operators manual which lists some of the parameters for Fapt. I presume that the 10TF uses similar parameters.

    Let me know if you want any info.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    106
    do not reset the nc side parameters, as the fapt may as well be a different country as fat as the cnc is concerned.
    It has a seperate battery backup cable, Resetting the cnc has no positive effect on the fapt side , so dont do it.
    To reinitialize fapt side is something like this.
    Power off.
    powerup holding down BS key. go to fapt side , press Aux key, type in CFINT.
    This initializes fapt. I have the exact key strokes blow by blow, I will have to dig 'em up.
    What you really need is the tapes and a Fanuc PPR tape reader, as a regular Tape reader wont wk. as this stuff is in FANUCedup format. Any if there any thing I can do please let me know.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    816
    My 10TF is a home brew solution, unlike the OP's Hardinge CHNC.. mine is a brand new custom built machine. The 10TF that is going on it, It's made from eBay purchased parts, as are most of the controls I own.

    I have a FANUC reader for the 6MB-2 system. Don't have any tapes for it.

    I read all the posts I could on here about the 10's FAPT. And I got the init process down.

    As with the machine, the parameter list I built is a custom one.. as with the NC side parameters.

    I'm told that the the 15 is similar to the 10/11/12 so the FAPT from a 15 might work with some work.

    If this works I will try and get my OT-C

    I have the following boards:

    A20B-1210-0410 FAPT CPU
    A16B-1210-0300 FAPT Memory ?? Interface?
    A16B-1310-0301 ACP/PCU (for the 1210-0410 board)
    A16B-1310-0480 ACP/Add CAP Memory

    Is there a material library, etc?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2517
    I have 20 years experience with FAPT.
    I have a FAPT parameter manual here. What do you need?
    If anyone has FAPT questions send them along, happy to answer :-)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    816
    Does not have a AutoFAPT file or Material one.

    Found some parameters.. but all is not there.

    Yes, the 10TF/TEF parameters might be the same as the 15's.

    Not sure.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2517
    you can create the material file yourself using the menu. not FAPT, the other maintenance ones. I forget now, I don't work on 15TTF with FAPT now.
    It's in the same place where the tool file is set up. Family Program I think it's called.
    Once you set it up save it, from memory something like Output Material File, then type 1,B,@M and it will save the material file as M. Set up your tool file and save it the same way as T. You can check your family program area and it will list your saved FAPT graphic data and you will see a file called M and T.

    There are FAPT graphic data parameters to make the tool file and material file autoload at boot. They are listed in Family Program, in System Parameters. MTF is there also but those are the machine parameters that FAPT uses to create the program (like using R instead of I,K or if X is + or - etc), nothing to do with actual FAPT graphic data. you want System Parameters. I can tell you the setting for all of them if needed but a lot of them will default to the right setting and don't need to be changed.

    0016 should be set to "M"
    0017 should be set to "T"

    This is all from memory. If you need the exact sequence or info let me know and I'll check my old manuals.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    816
    Is it the same for the 10TF/TEF as the 15? I don't have a 15T. Mine is a 10TF. Never quite understood the difference between the TF, TEF & TTF. One for export controls (CE spec.?)

    What is in the Material File?

    I use a lot of the 4100 & 4300 series Moly/Chromoly steel. A lot of 1018. LP410 Nylon 6/6. Quite a bit of 2024, 6061 and 7075 aluminum. Up to about 3" in diameter.

    Family Program seems familiar though.

    It's an 8 tool lathe turret, 4MT/5MT tailstock, 8" chuck. Kinda looks a lot like a Okuma LB-10/LB15.

    I would like to have the settings for all of them.

    Yes I set 0016 to M and 0017 to T

    It does have the FAPT graphics.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2517
    TF just means a single turret lathe with FAPT
    TTF means Twin Turret with FAPT

    The material file just contains surface speeds, depth of cut and feed rates for each type of operation (tool) then for each type of material. You don't really need it. You can set the feed, depth of cut and surface speeds when programming the job in FAPT. It's just a convenience.

    Which version is your FAPT? I'm guessing it's System P Model G or something like that? My FAPT parameter manual is for 15TTF but most of it could be similar. But like I said most of them should be defaulted and don't need to be changed unless you have an error or you need to change something specific.

    If you put up a pic of the screen of the data you want I'll see if it matches with my data or at least if the format is the same.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    816
    The material file just contains surface speeds, depth of cut and feed rates for each type of operation (tool) then for each type of material. You don't really need it. You can set the feed, depth of cut and surface speeds when programming the job in FAPT. It's just a convenience.
    This will really help me out.

    I will look and see what version mine is and take some pics. The 10TF I built just came online about 3 weeks ago. Haven't had much time to play with it.
    Just making sure there are no alarms and the axes move properly.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    816
    Am still working on this FAPT on my 10TF. Everything I have is as I posted above. I have always wanted a step by step tutorial on FAPT Turn.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    39

    Re: Symbolic FAPT TURN

    Looking for the tool data file ! Got a hardinge CHNC II 10tf control . Even a walk through of meanings of what its asking for . Like RN ,AC,An, ext. Have a book pages missing ! General Numeric 10 tf operator's manual.
    Well purchace let me know.
    [email protected]
    Thanks in advance
    Ed

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2517

    Re: Symbolic FAPT TURN

    AC is angle for tool clearance on the leading edge
    AN is tip angle (generally 80, 60, 55, 35 etc)
    RN is tool nose radius
    XN/ZN is for tool nose radius compensation calculations (for right hand tools generally RN = XN = ZN)
    - for left hand tools XN is the same and ZN is minus
    AS is tool mounting angle (generally -90 for turning tools and 180 for boring bars)

    For a standard 80 degree insert and right hand turning tool the data is...
    AC 5
    AN 80
    RN 0.04
    XN 0.04
    ZN 0.04
    AS -90

    For 55 degree insert (i.e. DNMG) the only thing that changes is AN=55

    For a standard 55 degree insert and right hand boring bar the data is...
    AC 87
    AN -55
    RN 0.031
    XN 0.031
    ZN 0.031
    AS 180


    If you have other questions or special tooling requirements just ask.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    7

    Re: Symbolic FAPT TURN

    Is it possible to add or enable Symbolic FAPT (Conversational) to a Fanuc lathe that did not have it from the factory?

    Do you know how much that costs?

    I am looking to buy a used CNC machine with a Fanuc control, but the machine does not have Symbolic FAPT on it, and my other 3 Daewoo PUMA lathes already have it, and my team really wants our next (used) machine to have it also.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Symbolic_FAPT.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	51.7 KB 
ID:	407414Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Symbolic_FAPT.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	51.7 KB 
ID:	407414

  19. #19

    Re: Symbolic FAPT TURN

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    I just purchased a Hardinge Chnc II with a 10tf. The machine runs great but the fapt is not working right. For starters the material and autofapt file are missing. The manual indicates these files should be shown under the family program files soft key. Nothing shows up. The problem with using the fapt is the menus dont show up on the screen. I can entery data blind and the soft keys change as in correction or back/next page. But nothing I enter shows up on the screen. I dont know if this is related to the missing files or something else. The good news that I have 3 punch tapes that have parameters , fapt parameters and chnc macros. Bad news the machine dosnt have a tape reader. PS my 6m does have a tape reader .
    If anyone has seem this and know how to fix it Please let me know.
    And is the fapt program stored on the yellow PC cassette.
    Thanks Drew
    Hi Drew,
    I used to work for Fanuc and it is quite common for this to happen?

    Power off the machine and power back up againjust as it comes off the NC Screen it will go onto the FAPT screen,
    In the bottom soft keys is a red one, it should say AUX bit if it is in Japanese it will still be red RED.
    Keep pressing the Red Key unti you get a flashing = at the bottom?
    (sometimes it takes 2~ 3 goes to catch it)
    if you have the flashing = then type in CFINT then input (CONTROL FAPT INITIALISE)
    It will ask you 1 for yes or 0 for no! type in 1 and input
    it will then initialise and you will all be back to Fanuc Standard as in the book.
    If you are in the UK for a day charge (£750) we come and reset it for you.

    Regards

    Jeff

Similar Threads

  1. fapt
    By amrinder in forum Fanuc
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-06-2013, 10:27 PM
  2. corrupt fapt turn
    By kangarabbit in forum Fanuc
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-03-2009, 08:48 PM
  3. Symbolic FAPT TURN software
    By ahmedrehan in forum Fanuc
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-16-2008, 11:12 AM
  4. GN10T-F symbolic controll
    By Craig F in forum Fanuc
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-25-2006, 06:32 PM
  5. Fapt Crt
    By positiverake in forum CNC Machine Related Electronics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-25-2005, 08:50 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •