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  1. #1
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    TaK's Sieg X3 CNC Upgrades

    I have a Sieg X3 that I converted to CNC with a CNC fusion 'deluxe' kit. I'm planning on making many upgrades to it and rather than making lots of little threads, I thought I'd just have one to consolidate information and encourage me to take pictures and document the process.

    Right now I am in the process of upgrading the spindle bearings and upgrading the spindle motor. I'll be posting updates in this thread from now on. If you want to get caught up, check out this thread...
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/x3_sx3...r_upgrade.html

    As a little introduction, here are some videos and pictures of where I'm at and a few things I've made:

    A couple time-lapse videos of me cutting things:
    takCNC's Channel - YouTube

    My machine (after finishing a piece):
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f...0/IMG_3412.JPG

    Pic of a PBC holding Fixture:
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-T...6/IMG_3416.JPG

    Cufflinks:
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-q...6/IMG_3191.JPG

    Shaper:
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-n...6/IMG_1041.JPG

    TK

  2. #2
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    Subscribed! Keep it up

    JTCUSTOMS
    "It is only when they go wrong that machines remind you how powerful they are."
    Clive James

  3. #3
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    I got to do some work last night. I pulled out the 6007 large bearing.

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-k...6/IMG_1329.JPG

    Unexpectedly, the hardest part was removing the pin. It's over sized for the hole and they mashed it in there really well. I damaged it a bit getting it out. I was pulling with vise grips and they were eating through it. What finally ended up working was alternating pulling at the top then bottom to rock it out. I was actually pulling my workbench around trying to get it out.

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-L...6/IMG_1330.JPG
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-W...6/IMG_1331.JPG

    Here's all those pesky bearings lying on the bench... looking smug.

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H...6/IMG_1333.JPG

    I figured that I have broken in the machine well enough at this point so I'm doing a tune up as I disassemble for upgrades. Here's what the machine looked like at the beginning of last night.

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-y...0/IMG_1334.JPG

    Word of warning, the head is still damn heavy even missing the motor and spindle and quill.

    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...0/IMG_1335.JPG

    I thought this was interesting. Oiling channels in the Z ways.

    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-H...6/IMG_1338.JPG

    The Z gib is pretty much a mess. I didn't clean it well enough in the beginning I guess. It was covered with what seems like black tar/wax? I cleaned it off. It's still not very flat. Whatever process they used to taper it seems to have made lost of ruts in the surface.

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-P...6/IMG_1339.JPG
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4...6/IMG_1341.JPG

    And here's the mill at the end of the evening.

    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-i...0/IMG_1344.JPG

    Looking a lot better.

    In other news, a local mechanic was able to get the last bearing race out of the quill. He made a weld on the taper and it shrunk the race enough to slip out. The quill looks like it survived with just a little discoloration from the heat. I haven't measured it for straightness yet. I'm waiting for the new bearings to come in so I might take this time to look at making an easier way to get that race out again in case I ever need to remove it.

    TK

  4. #4
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    Hey Cornbinder,

    You suggested heating components in mineral oil to get them up to temp for replacing the bearings. Is there any reason I can't just use the oven? Also, do you have a feel for the temp I should be shooting for?

    My thoughts right now are to put the race in the freezer over night and heat the quill in the oven to 150F or 200F and try dropping the new race in.

  5. #5
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    A few other things on my mind...

    Bearing grease arrives today.
    Bearings arrive tomorrow.
    Making progress on choosing a new spindle motor; hopefully can order in a few more days.

    I was thinking about recutting the end blocks on from the CNC Fusion kit for the X axis. The problem is that they do not let you travel farther than the end of the X ways. If I cut them smaller I could extend my X travel a little. The question is whether or not it's worth it for the extra 2" or so I might be able to get. Sometimes that extra little space is nice for doing Z setting or similar gentle operations.

    I still don't have limit switches. It's about time I got them in there for limiting and homing. I'm having a hard time deciding on the style and the placement. I like the idea of the switch being stationary and the bumpers moving in to hit it. The only problem is that orients the switch facing up so I feel like a lot of chips could get on it and in the way. This could interfere with the operation if it is a rocker type switch or cause pre-mature triggering because of having chips in the middle between the switch and the bumper.

    Anyway, most of the machine is back together. The only section not rebuilt is the spindle. Tonight I will be readjusting the gibs screws. I'm hoping that with this tune-up and re-oiling I'll be able to loosen the gibs screws and eliminate a little of the small backlash I was fighting. Tomorrow when the new bearings arrive I should be able to start rebuilding the spindle.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaK View Post
    Hey Cornbinder,

    You suggested heating components in mineral oil to get them up to temp for replacing the bearings. Is there any reason I can't just use the oven? Also, do you have a feel for the temp I should be shooting for?

    My thoughts right now are to put the race in the freezer over night and heat the quill in the oven to 150F or 200F and try dropping the new race in.
    That will work just fine and the wife wont (nuts)for taking her crockpot, I like to use the heated mineral oil because it will basically melt any waxy/ oily contaminate on the bearings and then I clean them out with degreaser and compressed air.
    I inject grease in with a syringe.
    I had to heat mine up to 240 before the races would drop in so YMMV
    good luck

    JTCUSTOMS
    "It is only when they go wrong that machines remind you how powerful they are."
    Clive James

  7. #7
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    The bearings came in today so I was excited to get the spindle reconstruction started.
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-w...6/IMG_1345.JPG
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-x...6/IMG_1346.JPG
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D...6/IMG_1347.JPG

    The 6007 bearing for the spline gear at the top is filled with blue grease. It is super smooth, but takes a lot of force to turn. I don't know if its really a problem or just different then what I'm used to. Thoughts anyone? It looks like it might be packed tight with that grease.
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c...6/IMG_1348.JPG

    So it was time to try to get the bearings on. 'Try' is the operative word. The 6007 went on fine after heating the bearing in the oven and putting the shaft in the freezer. Here you can see it on my precision coaster:
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6...6/IMG_1349.JPG

    The race for the lower taper roller bearing did not go so well. I put the race in the freezer and heated the quill in the oven to 350F. I tried to press the race in with my hands and it went in a little and got stuck there. Exactly what I was afraid of. Very frustrating. I think I can try again though. The race is so far up near the end of the quill that I should be able to use some 3 arm pullers to remove the race and start over. Anybody have ideas on how to do better next time?

    You can see the race here stuck at the end of the quill.
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Z...6/IMG_1359.JPG

    After that 'issue' I went to put the spline drive shaft and bearing back in the bracket to find that they don't fit easily. I guess I need to try the oven trick again, but I am not very confident since the bracket is not precision machined. It could be narrower by a good margin. I have a small arbor press so I could also try that if I find the right jig to push just on the outside of the bearing.
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...6/IMG_1351.JPG
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C...0/IMG_1352.JPG

    I figured I could polish the races on the spindle today as well. It just barely fits on the 7x12 lathe, but I got it on there. I spent quite a while with 220 grit emery paper and didn't make much of a dent in the diameter. My calipers say I need to take about 2mils off the diameter, but after 45 minutes of work on one of the races, i might have gotten off 1mil. Hard to tell. It did get nice and shiny though. I think the problem is this paper gets loaded with debris way too quick. I'll try something less fine tomorrow; maybe 100ish. It does not help that when I go to test fit the bearing on, it always gets stuck and I have to fight to get it off each time.
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-j...6/IMG_1353.JPG
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C...6/IMG_1354.JPG
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G...6/IMG_1355.JPG

    Here are some pictures of where the machine is now. Basically back in one piece except for the spindle area.
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4...0/IMG_1356.JPG
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4...0/IMG_1357.JPG
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-p...6/IMG_1358.JPG

    Lastly, I'll talk about the motor for a few minutes. Selection is still challenging. I made a table of several machines and the figures for the torque I was able to find in various places on the internet...

    torque lb-in rpm
    using now 2.5 2000

    KX3 16 1500
    KX1 8.4 5000
    AKM43K 33.5 3000
    HAAS MINI 528 1200
    FANUC Robodrill 39.6 6000
    Novakon NM-200 35.4 3500
    Novakon 700lbs 16 6000

    That copy-paste sort of worked... The motor I am favoring at the moment is the Kollmorgen AKM43K which would put the spindle motor capability around the mark of the smaller Novakon CNC. I think it's going to be overkill but I am having a very hard time deciding how much torque I need for this thing. Please chime in if you have some suggestions. Anyway, I have sent out for some quotes so lets see what happens.

    TK

  8. #8
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    Ah.. yes bearings can be pretty tricky sometimes.
    Did you check to see if the quill had actually gotten above 200-250?
    A small infrared thermometer comes it quite handy for stuff like this, but you have to be careful as most all cheap ones do not have an adjustable emissivity setting, they dont normally read well on shiny surfaces, so just color a 1 in spot with a sharpie to take readings off of.
    The reason I say this is I know the oven I use for powder coating is quite a few degrees off, had to spend some time calibrating a new temp range for the powder coating.
    Your 6007 bearing, you can remove the seals and flush out the grease and re-pack with your Kluber, but its not really necessary at the speeds these spindles turn.
    If heated properly the races and bearings should just fall into place, but you have to work quickly. Just press the upper in with your arbor press.

    As far as the motor, as a red blooded American I am usually one to "throw some more horsepower at it" but the issues with rigidity will certainly not let you take advantage of more that 1-1.5 hp anything over that is wasted in my opinion. I have said this before and I will say it again, the 1hp BLDC drive that comes in the SX3 is more than enough power for this machine, so you can loosely base your specs on that.
    Or a 3ph VFD set-up would be my next economical choice.
    Here is a pic of Teybers X3 and 3ph motor mount.Teyber12
    Or a belt drive like mine can be made to fit an X3 Post29, I am working on redesigning the drawbar to a floating design, and if anyone is interested I have another of these cylinders for sale.
    Keep at it Tak it will only be a matter of time before you are cutting with this thing and will forget all the trials and tribulations you have had previously. And the offer still stands if you want to send your spindle to me I can get you set-up. Teyber had issues with his as well, his rebuild went w/o a hitch although I think that college has taken all of his hobby time.

    JTCUSTOMS
    "It is only when they go wrong that machines remind you how powerful they are."
    Clive James

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the advice Cornbinder. I'll try again tonight. I soaked the quill in the oven for about an hour, but I can try a bit hotter and a longer soak in case the part wasn't at temp yet. This is all assuming I can get the race out again.

    I am working on redesigning the drawbar to a floating design
    I always thought this would be pretty hard to accomplish. Is there any reason you wouldn't just look to replace the top spindle bearing/thrust bearing pair with a tapered roller bearing? Most of them can take about 2tons of weight which should be more than enough for a conventional push-type power draw bar and it seems like it would make a more simple overall solution.

    Does anybody know the torque rating of the 1HP BLDC SX3 motor?

  10. #10
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    Last night I pulled the stuck lower bearing race out. It went pretty easily. Luckily, it didn't get in very far on the first try so there was a lot of room to get the pullers in.
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Z...6/IMG_1359.JPG
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v...6/IMG_1360.JPG
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l...0/IMG_1361.JPG

    I lightly polished the inside of the quill for the next attempt and stuck it back in the oven.

    Meanwhile, I worked on getting the spline gear bearing (6007) back in the bracket. I followed cornbinder's advice and just pressed it in with my arbor press. It went pretty smoothly when I found some suitable standoffs. I think this was about the limit for this press; I doubt a 1/2t press would have worked. Anyway, this section is back together and ready to be put back on the head.
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z...0/IMG_1362.JPG
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-O...6/IMG_1363.JPG
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-I...6/IMG_1364.JPG

    It was time to try the lower quill bearing race again. This time it worked and I think it's set properly. Finally! The first time I tried using the race only and pushing it which might have led it to get misaligned. This time, I used the inside ring to push down and I think it applied the force more evenly, but it did still take some strong pushing before it popped in place. Make sure to cover the top of the bearing in a thick towel though, that quill is hot.
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-b...6/IMG_1365.JPG

    Tonight I'll try to repeat my success with the new upper quill bearing. I worked on the spindle races again with some #80 emery cloth. It's still really slow going.

  11. #11
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    glad to great you got er in there. nice work with the press... beats my back-side-of-a-socket and plastic hammer method :-D have to use that to set 1-1/6" od bearings into wheelchair caster journals in the field all the time. little looser fit thank god.

  12. #12
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    Sweet, glad you are having some success Tak.:cheers:
    I tried and tried to find info on the torque specs for that motor but could not find much in the way of a torque sheet. The motor is rated at 1000w which is 1.34Hp
    IP44, Class F, Brushless DC Motor (BLDC)
    W92-1000A
    1000W
    6A @ 230V
    12A @ 110V
    3600 RPM
    Ins class F

    JTCUSTOMS
    "It is only when they go wrong that machines remind you how powerful they are."
    Clive James

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    I was getting ready to put the bearing in the top of the quill when I noticed something. The top of the quill is stepped, and somehow I don't remember it being like that.
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3...6/IMG_1366.JPG

    The lower step fits the original thrust bearing, then a washer and the upper step is for the deep groove ball bearing. Here's a picture showing the thrust bearing in place.
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-p...6/IMG_1367.JPG

    My plan was to replace the top thrust bearing / deep groove ball bearing combination with a single tapered roller bearing. This is mostly for a future power draw bar because that tapered roller bearing can take some force. Even if you don't do a power draw bar, it seems like a better way to go since you are going to be pre-loading the spindle in the quill and hitting the spindle with a mallet to get the tool out all the time anyway.

    I was expecting the roller bearing to be shorter then the combination of the two original bearings and I would need to put some shims (washers) to get the level up to the threads for the locking nut pair. Luckily I think the plan will still work; it's just that the new tapered roller bearing sits in the top step and is raised above the level I expected. Here is a picture of me placing the old, original tapered roller bearing into that top step to estimate the height. It sits about 2mm above level with the top of the quill. The new bearing won't sit that high because the outer race of this one has welds all over it from the removal process, but its close enough for an estimate.
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-a...6/IMG_1368.JPG
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-n...0/IMG_1369.JPG

    I did a little more measuring and put the quill in the oven. I finished polishing the spindle journals on the lathe. I ended up using mostly 80grit emery cloth; it still took a long time. Be sure to let the journals cool before test fitting.
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-X...0/IMG_1370.JPG

    I got the upper taper roller bearing race in the quill. It took two tries again. This time I know the problem was that it didn't start going in strait. Here it is in the top of the quill. It looks like when the rest of the bearing is together it sits approximately 1mm above the top of the quill. I think it's going to work out nicely.
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-i...6/IMG_1371.JPG

    Here's all the spindle parts waiting to be put together. It's time to grease the roller bearings and final assembly. I need to get this thing spinning again and see if it was worth it.
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T...6/IMG_1373.JPG

  14. #14
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    I reassembled the quill and spindle. It went pretty smoothly. I packed the tapered roller bearings with the Kluber grease trying to fill 50% of the available volume.
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8...6/IMG_1375.JPG
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6...6/IMG_1376.JPG
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-b...6/IMG_1377.JPG
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M...6/IMG_1378.JPG
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E...6/IMG_1380.JPG

    The new bearing in the top of the spindle sits about 1mm past the top of the quill. I'm using the washer that was just beneath the c-nuts and it seems to fit about perfect.
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-I...0/IMG_1381.JPG

    Here is the assembly back in the head.
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-J...0/IMG_1383.JPG

    Don't forget to put the rubber ring back on at the bottom of the quill like I did or you'll have to take the whole damn thing apart again and redo...

    Here is a photo of what I'm calling the 'magic screw'. It took me a long time to find this little jerk to remove the spindle. The preparation guide didn't illustrate this thing well enough.
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-c...6/IMG_1386.JPG
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z...6/IMG_1385.JPG

    The only real tough part was getting the spring back on and tensioned correctly. Here's a tip: use a large set of circlip pliers to grip the spring cage by those 2 holes. Then you can wind the spring back to your liking with little issues. First I tried using big pliers like the preparation guide shows, but that wasn't working well.
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-D...6/IMG_1387.JPG

    Something interesting:
    The spindle is much harder to turn by hand now then it was. I may have pre-tensioned it more then the factory did. Also, the grease I'm using is much thicker than what was in there before. It might settle and spread a good bit too. It is nice and smooth though, so I'm going to leave it for now and see how the motor handles it. I can back off the pre-tensioning if I need to. I think I'd rather have the motor work harder and have less vibration in general though.

    When I first turned it on, there was a nasty noise. I'm fairly sure it's in one of the gears. I think its either the spline gear or the 2 metal main drive gears on the top of the head. I'll pull the spindle assembly tonight and just run the gears to see if that's where the sound is coming from. The main drive gear that powers the spline might have taken a bang during disassembly. Hopefully I'll be able to find a little dent and file it out.

    I'll probably post a list of the parts and specialty tools I used to do this bearing change next time. In case anyone else is thinking about it.

    TK

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    any word on what caused the noise? gotten to run it yet?

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    It's been running since I got it reassembled. I have only cut one piece since then; about a 1.5 hour job. I measured the run-out with a dial indicator and it looks to be about 0.00025". My finest dial indicator is only 0.0005" per tick, and it moves about half a tick. I would need a better indicator to get a better measurement, but I think it's probably an acceptable amount of run-out and I don't think I messed up anything badly with this whole endeavor. I wish I had measured the original run-out though... can anyone out there fill me in?

    The noise and vibration has gone down at higher speeds. I still believe it's the two big toothed gears on the top of the head. I guess whatever little dent I put in one of them has worn down. Either way, I'm not very concerned about it since I am going to be replacing those with a timing belt soon and I don't think the vibration is enough to be affecting my cuts right now.

    An annoying detail has been that I have not gotten the force on the quill spring where I want it again. There is a tab bent into the quill spring where it engages on the quill bar shaft. On mine, it seems to have unbent so it is tough to get it to engage and get the tension correct.

    A more substantial problem is that the head is getting very hot. After about an hour of pretty light cutting, I could hold my palm to the machine head for only about 15 seconds before I had to remove it. My guess is that I have too much pre-load on the spindle. I have noticed that it is quite hard to turn by hand even without the motor engaged, but it's very smooth. One of these nights I will remove the quill and back off the pre-load nuts. At this point, I should be about to do that in about 15 min.

    Other possible causes are that there is a problem with the bearings. I don't think this is likely because the motion is very smooth feeling so they probably are not misaligned, and the run-out isn't bad. I was careful not to get debris in them when installing and packing. I doubt I over packed them with grease; I was careful to pack 30-50% of the volume. The 6007 bearing came packed from the factory and I will assume they put in the appropriate amount. The two tapered roller bearings are open on one side so if I did manage to over-pack them, it should have squished out a bit.

    I did a tear-down and tune up on the machine in general. I am no longer satisfied with my ~3mil of backlash. I should probably spend some time tracking that down. I am using the CNCFusion premium ballscrew kit. My first guess is the helical couplers are the largest contributor. Any recommendations on what variety I should be using?

    In other news, I am making progress in selecting a motor/controller upgrade. Right now, I am trying to figure out how best to get more power into my garage. My garage's normal 120V, 15A breaker is probably going to be stressing when I make this upgrade.

    TK

  17. #17
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    no recommendation on the couplers since the helical ones from cncfusion are the only ones I have ever used. I have gotten my backlash down under .002 on x and y just by scraping my gibs. I also found that only about 10% of my gibs can possibly make contact (which makes scraping pretty fast) because the angle used on the dovetails is too shallow for the placement of the 4 adjuster screws. all of the pressure is pushing into the bottom edge of the way NOT the face. every picture I have seen shows the exact same pencil thin wear mark on the x and y gib. sad.

    when adjusting the gibs I get then where I think they should be, check the backlash and loosen or tighten till is .002 which is a good tight (for the x3) fit with little backlash. if I back then off a hair I can get 0 backlash, but twisting the table makes the indicator dance. .002 on a $1000 machine is pretty damn good and hasn't effected any of my parts. I'll have some more videos up on my youtube soon and will show it slot cutting 1018 with a .25" 4flt at.2" doc.

    column flex/ head flex is more of an issue for side cutting, but a finish pass takes care of it.

    the reason I reread your post today was BECAUSE of the heat... so interesting you mention that. I ran the spindle close to 10 hours this weekend and noticed it was getting really hot (4000rpm, mostly) last night 37 minutes into cutting it stopped. the fuse was in several pieces. replaced the fuse. it stalled. tried to turn the spindle....SEIZED. pulled the gear train off to make sure it wasn't the motor. it wasn't.

    I just laughed since I had just priced the spindle and quill and bearings yesterday

    after your exploits, and several others I'm gonna spend the $130 for both and start fresh- I can't afford having the mill down while I play with it and the likelihood of damage is less

    as I started tearing everything apart I removed my florescent light that had an aluminum bracket holding it to the quill. what do you know
    ?! spindle was free again. seems the heat was making the spindle, bearings and quill expand, but the aluminum bracket washed its heat and stayed the same which was creating additional heat, resistance and eventually stalled the bearings.

    left it off and ran another 3 hours last night perfectly and definitely cooler. I borrowed an infrared thermometer today to test the heat.

    my spindle inner taper shows .0004ish TIR. I'm using a .0005 too to measure it too. I wasn't to measure it again when its hot because its noticeably smoother the warner it gets.

    how fast have you run yours? just the standard 2000? if its getting that hot there... I'm scared. very curious to see what happens after you loosen the preload.

    all in all I'm impressed with the stock bearings. I run up to 5600 and they get hot, to the point that I can only hold the nose for 5-10 seconds, but the head had never gotten quite as hot as yours did.

    I'm thinking about making a heat sink for the quill. im thinking an aluminum round sink with fins pointing out and cut into 3 pieces and held to the quill with a heavy rubber band or two so it could expand with the quill and should draw at least a significant amount of heat out. heck I wouldn't even mind wiring up a couple tiny fans to the x3 power switch and mounting them under the head behind the heat sink.

    I look forward to hearing from you on the heat. I will make a heat sink when I can and do some benchmark testing the day befor install so I can see if it really helps. if I can get 20% cooler I can run 20% faster I'm thinking 4000rpm measured at the nose, quill, fixed point on the head, spline and top of gear box (while running) every 15 minutes until the great levels out.


    great work on the posting btw. really enjoyed reading this one again

  18. #18
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    OK. I did some work tonight.

    I removed the spindle from the machine.
    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D...6/IMG_1411.JPG

    First, I verified that the weird vibration is the two main gears on top of the head. I will be removing them both soon so no big deal. I probably damaged a tooth when I was removing the 6007 bearing from the spline drive gear. I looked for any obvious damage, but don't see any. I can't really feel the vibration but I can definitely hear it.

    Next, I did a test to find out approximately how tight my spindle is in the quill. I don't have anything resembling proper equipment for this sort of test... I took a piece of 30 gauge wire and wrapped it around the spindle and tied the other end to a plastic bag. I added coins to the bag until the spindle unwound. Then I used a kitchen scale to weigh the bag.
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-U...0/IMG_1412.JPG

    The first test bag measured 2lbs and 14oz. The spindle is 58mm in diameter so that should be about 40oz-in. Did I mention it was tight? It's actually easy to move by hand at that level, but is noticeably tight. I readjusted the pre-load nuts and that bag weighed 6oz or about 5oz-in. Both of these measurements are just the spindle/quill assembly and dont include the spline drive bearing or gears or motor. It's a real pain in the ass adjusting these c-nuts by the way.

    While I had the spindle apart again, I worked getting the quill spring back in shape. I finally got the end of the spring bent back into a reasonable shape. For any of you that have not had the pleasure of working on the head of your mill, this is also a pain in the ass. I don't know why it moved from the original position, but it now seems happy and springy again.
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l...6/IMG_1414.JPG

    So hopefully tomorrow night I can run the spindle at 2k for a couple hours and see if the head gets noticeably hot with the lighter pre-load. I don't know if there is enough, or still too much pre-load. I'm not sure if there is some way I can measure the play in the spindle in the Z direction under loads. I'll have to think about that. In the mean time I'll be on the lookout for vibration.

    Priddy-
    If you are going to do work on your bearings, can you do a similar test so we can see how much torque it takes to move the spindle with a factory pre-load?

    TK

  19. #19
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    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1230
    my hat is off to you for thinking of the bag trick to measure the tension! very smart idea.

    tonight I measured the temp at the quill, and head. they both started around 56°. I ran the spindle at 1000rpm for 20 minutes in low gear and it climbed to 60 at the quill and 69 in the center of the head. then I ran it at 2750 rpm in low gear for 30 minutes and it topped out at 20 minutes at 66 on the quill and 80 on the head. I was a little surprised that the head was hotter. I guess the air exchange cools the spindle. interesting that it seemed to top out fairly fast. more tests are on the way next year

    had to stop there and finish up my christmas ornaments I have been making for the family.

    at this point I'm not sure if I will pull the bearings or not. I'm just killing time until we move to buy a tormach, and then I imagine I will have time to tear this all apart again. I'm trying to keep myself from spending time on the machine unless absolutely necessary as every hour and dime I spend on the machine and not making parts puts me that much further from my goal, baring failures of course.

    BUT- as soon as I can I will pull it and test it though I think the numbers would be un-fair to consider for a comparison to stock. more like "abused stock" now that I managed to seize the dang thing. really wish I had a timer on the spindle because its hundreds and hundred of hours already

    sure is dark under the tool now gonna have to figure out some new lights

    if money gets loose I'll just buy a whole new spindle one part at a time and throw better bearings in.

    congrats on the decrease in tension, very interested to see your motor get sorted out. thats one thing I think I.could justify since its only a matter of time befor mine blows in the middle of a job

  20. #20
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    724
    Quote Originally Posted by PriddyShiddy View Post
    I'm thinking about making a heat sink for the quill. im thinking an aluminum round sink with fins pointing out and cut into 3 pieces and held to the quill with a heavy rubber band or two so it could expand with the quill and should draw at least a significant amount of heat out. heck I wouldn't even mind wiring up a couple tiny fans to the x3 power switch and mounting them under the head behind the heat sink.

    I look forward to hearing from you on the heat. I will make a heat sink when I can and do some benchmark testing the day befor install so I can see if it really helps. if I can get 20% cooler I can run 20% faster I'm thinking 4000rpm measured at the nose, quill, fixed point on the head, spline and top of gear box (while running) every 15 minutes until the great levels out.


    great work on the posting btw. really enjoyed reading this one again

    I made a coolant manifold that clamps around the quill and that acts like a big heatsink, there is a decent picture of it on post #38 in Mybuild thread It works very well, and I run it at 6000 rpm for hours on end

    JTCUSTOMS
    "It is only when they go wrong that machines remind you how powerful they are."
    Clive James

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