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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > Tormach Flycutter Dimensions Please
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  1. #1
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    Tormach Flycutter Dimensions Please

    I went to order the Tormach flycutter the other day but ended up with a little bit of sticker shock to get it to the UK.
    Shipping cost was $51 from Tormach (although Ann did have a look at reducing this for me) bringing the total purchase cost with just a single insert to around $184, but then when it gets to the UK I'll end up paying another 5% import duty on that cost, and then a handling charge of another $13, and then another 20% VAT on that total, giving me a complete delivered cost of $248.
    That's a pretty crazy cost for flycutter, no matter how good it is, and one I find difficult to justify.

    I use an R8 flycutter on the Bridgy with ground HSS toolbits and it works well, but the advantage of an insert cutter is repeatibility, so I fancy going down that route, and I already have plenty of SEHT inserts for a facemill I also use on the Bridgy.

    So having a lathe & a mill & a CNC mill I though I'd make one that's a copy of the Tormach. I wouldn't normally do this and have previously bought all my tooholders - and that's quite a lot - from Tormach as I believe in supporting them. However on this occasion I'd like to make a copy.

    And it's to that rather long-winded end that I'm asking if anyone with one of these could please measure it and let me have the dimensions, particularly for the insert toolholder as the rest is pretty straightforward.
    Thank you for any help.

  2. #2
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    Just asking, would you suffer the same duty/tax costs for a 2nd hand cutter? Maybe someone in the US may want to sell theirs.

    The Flycutter is a very nice cutter with good finish when you follow the speed/feed recommendations.

    Bevin
    Australia
    PS. Do you intend to heat treat the tool? I think the insert holder will need heat treatment, perhaps not the body.

  3. #3
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    Yeah, unfortunately the charges and tax % would be exactly the same on a 2nd and tool, just a slightly lower figure to reflect the lower cost. They also add the shipping cost on to the calculations too, but that's governments for you.
    I've got plenty on EN19T and P20 steel here - both pre-hardened - which would be ideal for the cutter, and I can also flame harden them a bit more or get them nitrided to toughen them up.
    I could probably design it all out from the photos available, but things like the insert seat angle and heights would be useful, as the design obviously works very well.

  4. #4
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    I made several of these over the years, they were good for specific instances (vibration/feedrate) being the main problems. I use a 2.5" 4 station face mill on the Tormach as it is a balanced cutter and has 4 stations so I can use a higher feedrate and rpm. I face off parts that are 1.5 to 2" in width and it works fine for me and much faster than a flycutter. I bought it off Ebay, free shipping, around 120 dollars with inserts.

    I tend to run the Tormach at higher rpm compared to the Bridgy and my fly cutter didnt do well at the higher rpm.

    Just a personal preference in my situation.
    mike sr

  5. #5
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    There shouldn't be any VAT for imports from outside the EU should there?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike sr1 View Post
    I made several of these over the years, they were good for specific instances (vibration/feedrate) being the main problems. I use a 2.5" 4 station face mill on the Tormach as it is a balanced cutter and has 4 stations so I can use a higher feedrate and rpm. I face off parts that are 1.5 to 2" in width and it works fine for me and much faster than a flycutter. I bought it off Ebay, free shipping, around 120 dollars with inserts.

    I tend to run the Tormach at higher rpm compared to the Bridgy and my fly cutter didnt do well at the higher rpm.

    Just a personal preference in my situation.
    Thanks Mike. I have a 40mm/4xAPKT insert Sandvik face mill which works very well with the Tormach, but anything wider of course requires multiple passes, and I have an aluminium project coming up which requires a lot of facing to height on some 6" wide pieces.

    Quote Originally Posted by widget_maker View Post
    There shouldn't be any VAT for imports from outside the EU should there?
    Unfortunately there is, all imports from outside the EU are subject to VAT, it's exports to outside the EU that are (technically) VAT free.
    Actually all imports and exports are subject to VAT, but if you are VAT registered with HMRC you can reclaim the VAT on imports, or for exports provide proof of permanent export to declare a null VAT rate due (or get a refund if you are the non-EU buyer), or in the case of sales to the EU prove that the recipient is VAT registered and will be paying their countries VAT on import.

  7. #7
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    Bump.

  8. #8
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    What do you mean ... "bump"?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bevinp View Post
    What do you mean ... "bump"?
    Lol - a 'bump' is just a single word post that 'bumps' a topic up to the top of the board again, sort of used to remind people it's there hopefully awaiting a response
    That's if I get one Perhaps people think it's too unethical to ask for the dimensions to copy it.

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    Peter,
    Thanks for the "bump" info.
    Re the dims of Flycutter, I think the lack of response is due to the effort required to measure the complete tool. The mounting surface for the insert is at an angle to all three sides of top, side and front. And with such a small surface with two walls, it is difficult to measure. The details of the insert clamping are smaller and more complicated, although I am sure there is online info for the standard used.

    Anyway I suggest you purchase the insert holder and make just the tool holder that fits into the spindle.

    Bevin

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    I would buy just the cutter body if I could, but unfortunately the whole thing is only sold as a kit.

    Anyway, I got bored waiting so I drew the whole thing up, the holder has both axial & radial rake and the cutter seat is of course at 20 deg.
    Now off to make it.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Neill View Post
    I would buy just the cutter body if I could, but unfortunately the whole thing is only sold as a kit.

    Anyway, I got bored waiting so I drew the whole thing up, the holder has both axial & radial rake and the cutter seat is of course at 20 deg.
    Now off to make it.


    Awesome picture! Did you do that in SolidWorks? How did you render it so realistically?

  13. #13
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    "SuperCopy" - nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FuriousGeorge View Post
    Awesome picture! Did you do that in SolidWorks? How did you render it so realistically?
    Lots of Practice..

    Been rendering stuff for years now, you have to pick the right materials - easy now with Photoview - then adjust the actual material colours and the surface illumination properties and lighting. This one only took abut 2-3 minutes to set up and is actually fairly crude believe it or not. You can get much better results with more playing around. The most difficult things to render are clear plastics and glass. When I'm doing those I always use a very pale blue colour instead of the standard colour in Solidworks, and the same goes for chrome plating, a very pale blue seems to make it look more natural than shiny silver.

    If you have a look at my homepage (my actual business page) and click on the 'Design' tab everything you see there are rendered images from Solidworks
    AML - Engineering In Plastics

  15. #15
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    That Rendering does look nice.
    Can you tell us what graphics card you have?
    I upgraded from a low end OEM Nvidia card a while back to a pretty much entry level AMD Fire Pro V4900 to enable Real View but I don't think I know what I'm doing in setting up the perimeters. My models, mostly in aluminum come out very reflective with white out surfaces and very shinny black surfaces when I turn real view on.
    I like your idea for giving clear material a pale blue appearance. I am currently working on a turn signal lens that I want to machine a mold for and cast. I tried your pale blue appearance and it looks much better on screen :-)
    I need to spend some more time playing around with Real View settings for sure.
    Gerry


    Blaahh...
    Currently using SC7 Build 1.6 Rev. 64105

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcposada View Post
    32617 - Tool Bar - TTS SuperFly Cutter

    Insert holder sold individually
    That's interesting! I couldn't find it anywhere when I looked on the products page. I even sent Ann at Tormach an email telling them I was copying it and suggesting they sell it seperately......doh! Oh well, if mine turns not to work then this this route will work *lots* cheaper.....


    Gerry & FuriousGeorge - I should say the the rendering in Solidworks was done with the integrated Photoview software which is what makes it so quick & easy, but this is not available in Solidworks Standard. I used to use 'Photoworks' software in Solidworks which was a lot more time consuming to get a good result with, but still excellent software.

    If you only have Solidworks Standard and want professional looking renders, then try Blender - blender.org - Home of the Blender project - Free and Open 3D Creation Software - it's free and open source but is a standalone that you have to export VRML files from Solidworks to use, but can give excellent results.

    Edit: Gerry, forgot to reply about the video card. I have NVidia Quadro K2000s in both of my CAD workstations, used to use ATi Firepro but then NVidia had better drivers, think AMD now have just as good or better drivers than NVidia, but not upgrading these anytime soon. However....Solidworks only makes absolute minimal use of the graphics card for rendering, it's nearly all done by the CPU. I have dual Xeons on my workstations for just this reason as they give me 8 processing cores, but I think the i7 and maybe even the i5 are faster and have even more cores, but the Xeons are very very stable.

  18. #18
    Thanks for pointing this out. I've wanted the Fly Cutter for a while, but I thought it was kind of expensive for what it is.

    How big is the tool bar? 3/8"?



    Quote Originally Posted by jcposada View Post
    32617 - Tool Bar - TTS SuperFly Cutter

    Insert holder sold individually

  19. #19
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    I've used flycutters, and I've used face mills. After getting a good insert face mill, I see no reason I would ever use a flycutter again. The face mill gives a better finish, and will cut a larger diameter (my biggest one is 4"), deeper, and MUCH faster, with almost no noise or vibration.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisAttebery View Post
    Thanks for pointing this out. I've wanted the Fly Cutter for a while, but I thought it was kind of expensive for what it is.

    How big is the tool bar? 3/8"?
    Yep, another thanks from me for the link too.
    I tried looking for it again after you posted this and still couldn't find it anywhere.....except if you use the part number to search for it in the search box....and I guess you need to see one or have one to know the part number. So very useful link for many I expect, thanks again.


    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    I've used flycutters, and I've used face mills. After getting a good insert face mill, I see no reason I would ever use a flycutter again. The face mill gives a better finish, and will cut a larger diameter (my biggest one is 4"), deeper, and MUCH faster, with almost no noise or vibration.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    I have 40mm, 75mm, and 100mm Facemills, the 40mm & 100mm are Sandvik and the 75mm is Indexa Seiki. The 75 and 100mm cutters are in reality far too big to even use on my Bridgeport, and I even had to take 3 of the 6 inserts out of the 75mm to use it on that. The 100 mm is just used for light skimming cuts. Admittedly the Bridgeport has more HP and mass but the rigidity is not much different to the Tormach, as most of the Bridgys mass is in the bit holding it down to the floor and not the bit that takes the cutting loads, and it has too much flexibility due to all the swivel joints. Any big cuts and it will stall and spin the belts - and I keep them a little slack with facemills for just this reason.
    Trying to run anything with multiple inserts and decent DOC over about 2" dia in a small mill (and both Tormach & Bridgeport are small) is like trying to tow a car with a wheelchair.
    Sorry Ray, but I'll take the Missouri option on this one.

    On the other hand, this is quite impressive performance from a Flycutter - 0.200"DOC :

    Tormach TTS Superfly Fly Cutter - YouTube

    And my larger Facemills for reference:



    Regards
    Peter

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