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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Novakon > Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis
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  1. #1
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    Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Hello Everyone,
    Been a member for some time, but only posted a couple of time. I've done a ton of reading on here....especially this forum......which is what convinced me to go with Novakon! Thanks!! I'm excited to be here and looking forward to contributing.

    I've been wanting to get this started for the last week. Last Friday, Mar 28th, I wired the money to Novakon for a Torus Pro with servos and a 4th axis. I was going to wait on the 4th axis table for awhile, then realized just how much shipping and tariffs(customs) would add to it. Didn't change the shipping/tariffs by having it shipped with the mill. I don't have much to add at this point, but I will be shooting a lot of video during the assembly process. I already have a youtube channel and they'll all end up there. I'm planning to put them in this thread also. That way you won't have to sift through my channel to find the vids related to just this mill.

    I'm a complete beginner with regards to cnc mills. I've been playing around with my 9x20 cnc'd lathe, but I'm still a novice there. My approach will be from that of a beginner...obviously! I tend to do very detailed vids. If you've got any requests for specific info you want to see, let me know, I'll see what I can do to make sure it ends up on camera.

    I haven't decided on a CAM program yet. If you pop on here to say Hi, maybe you can also say which CAM you're using? Thanks!!!!
    Mike
    p.s.....I forgot to say that I ordered the power draw bar, as well.
    Don't have to be too bright to be me

  2. #2
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    The new machine is going to be fun! Congrats!

    Picking a CAM program isn't going to be fun though. In my experience making an *informed* decision is difficult. I may have had a hard time because I had very little experience when I bought my first CAM program (RhinoCAM). I stopped using that for a variety of reasons, not least of which is that it was very buggy (in my opinion at least). I am now using SolidCAM. It's better than RhinoCAM (again, in my opinion) but it is also much more expensive. Unfortunately, it also has its fair share of bugs. The UI could also use an overhaul - incongruities abound between different types of operations.

    There are SO many options in CAM and their prices range from free to extraordinarily expensive. If you are at the same place that I was, coming in without much experience, I would recommend either doing some hardcore research or to just buy something that you consider inexpensive enough to ditch if needed. An option would be to pick up the "basic" edition of a CAM package with the knowledge that you can upgrade later if needed. I believe HSMWorks offers this model, but there must be others out there.

    What CAD software are you using?

  3. #3
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Welcome aboard and congrats on the new machine. I'm sure it will be a lot of fun and excitement for you shortly.

    As for CAM, I use Sheetcam daily for several different machines including my Torus. I find it extremely versatile. Fairly easy to learn and is very cost effective. It can do basic machining to down right complicated stuff as well as rotary tool and plasma cutting. It even does rigid tapping posts for my Torus. It has been updated constantly since I first bought it. I think you can free trial it too. Pretty sure it is still under $200. Give it a whirl.

    Look forward to seeing your machine and videos.
    Lee

  4. #4
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Hi
    welcome now you look ahead interesting times.
    I did also go all the way about software
    i did cut2 cut3d (drawing i do by Turbocad Pro on the mac ) then i needed 3d Milling (and was looking for a 4th axis ) then i got Deskproto which is nice but ,..
    i needed more and more (getting Cut times from 12 hours down to 9 or so -
    my day job is it so i looked into Madcam , rhino cam , sprut cam , master cam
    and (because i also have an CNC Lathe ) the best Ration from Money to G Code is Bobcad i don't use their CAD (the ui is from the late 70´s i don't like it ) i accept the fact that they all force mw to windows
    so i live with hiccups , reboots all that sh... i use Windows only in an Virtual Machine so i use xp
    i can say i am ok with the Bobcad solution i do think if you have the need and the money get you a master cam but you need a lot of training then
    so i propose do yourself an excel list with what you want to see at the software weight it
    then check out all the software you like and measure it then on the end you get an emotional free result and then go and buy
    thomas

  5. #5
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Quote Originally Posted by Hirudin View Post
    The new machine is going to be fun! Congrats!

    Picking a CAM program isn't going to be fun though. In my experience making an *informed* decision is difficult. I may have had a hard time because I had very little experience when I bought my first CAM program (RhinoCAM). I stopped using that for a variety of reasons, not least of which is that it was very buggy (in my opinion at least). I am now using SolidCAM. It's better than RhinoCAM (again, in my opinion) but it is also much more expensive. Unfortunately, it also has its fair share of bugs. The UI could also use an overhaul - incongruities abound between different types of operations.

    There are SO many options in CAM and their prices range from free to extraordinarily expensive. If you are at the same place that I was, coming in without much experience, I would recommend either doing some hardcore research or to just buy something that you consider inexpensive enough to ditch if needed. An option would be to pick up the "basic" edition of a CAM package with the knowledge that you can upgrade later if needed. I believe HSMWorks offers this model, but there must be others out there.

    What CAD software are you using?
    Thanks!
    I've spent many hours looking at CAM reviews and threads on them. Just getting concise information is a challenge. Typically, price is the second thing I check. In a lot of cases, that makes the decision right then. EdgeCAM looks great, until I looked at the price. BobCAD/CAM is a possibility, but it's a huge jump from the $500 2D to $2500+ if I want 3D. I could spring for the $2500, but I wouldn't consider that a "throw away" price. lol
    I have zero CAM experience at this point. I think you're right about getting something I can grow with. I bought the 4th axis, but I know I'm not going to be firing it up anytime soon!
    I use SolidEdge4 3D for my CAD. I'm still a novice at that too, but I can typically figure out how to draw what I need.
    Don't have to be too bright to be me

  6. #6
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeWay View Post
    Welcome aboard and congrats on the new machine. I'm sure it will be a lot of fun and excitement for you shortly.

    As for CAM, I use Sheetcam daily for several different machines including my Torus. I find it extremely versatile. Fairly easy to learn and is very cost effective. It can do basic machining to down right complicated stuff as well as rotary tool and plasma cutting. It even does rigid tapping posts for my Torus. It has been updated constantly since I first bought it. I think you can free trial it too. Pretty sure it is still under $200. Give it a whirl.

    Look forward to seeing your machine and videos.
    Thanks Lee!
    I've noticed you mention Sheetcam in your forum posts before, but I haven't looked at it yet. I will. I guess I assumed it was for sheet metal work. lol

    I've been posting vids of my 9x20 cnc'd lathe for a bit now. They're up on my channel..... https://www.youtube.com/user/bluehandsvideo For what I have in mind at this point for the Torus vids, I'm probably going to have a ton of time in video production. There should be no lack of details.

    My son is now helping, so the web stuff can actually start moving forward.
    Don't have to be too bright to be me

  7. #7
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Sheetcam is basically for 2.5 D stuff, but you can get very creative with it. My other CAM's that I sometimes use is Dolphin for turning. Old version. I have no need to upgrade it. Cut 3D from Vecctric, which does full blown 3D stuff, but has a few limits to it. Quirks you might say, but most can be worked around.
    Then I use VCarve Pro. That all pretty much rounds out all my CAM and I haven't had a need for anything else.
    Lee

  8. #8
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    I've been using CamBam for 4+ years on my NM200. It handles 2.5D and 3D machining (via STL files) and has a very active support forum CamBam - Index. It's also one of the least expensive products around ($149). Plus you get to use it free with no capacity limits for 40 invocations; if you leave the program running between reboots those 40 trials can last a long time.

  9. #9
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Great suggestions guys! Thank you!!! I'll definitely look into them more. Both CAMBAM and Cut3D look to be in the price range I was hoping for. SheetCAM is certainly cheap enough to start with too! I'll start researching the differences. Is there enough correlation between CAM programs that it won't be a royal pain when moving from one to another?

    Here's a few pics of some CAD work I've done on the brake kit I'm creating for the pre-'78 Datsun pickups. The blue bracket will definitely be a mill project in the future.











    Don't have to be too bright to be me

  10. #10
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Nothing there requires 3D capability, so SheetCAM could do it easily.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  11. #11
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Right and probably quite a bit faster than a 3D might. Unless maybe that HSM thing you guys have been using.
    You would need to draw some extra lines for the outsides of the pocketing for the diameter.
    Lee

  12. #12
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    I Agree. Nothing on that Part Needs 3D capability ,.. But you may See that cut3d will Take ages for that challange it with cambam if it Works for you Great ,..


    Gesendet von meinem iPad mit Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Thanks guys! That's good to know. I knew that part wouldn't be any trouble for a 2.5D CAM.....most of that work was in modeling the hub and rotor(existing parts) so that I could design the other two to fit.

    Maybe I should take a look at the parts I plan on making in the near future and see what they need.

    Ray.....if I remember right, you don't use Mach3.....what CAM do you use?
    I'm pretty excited to get your power draw bar with this system!!
    Don't have to be too bright to be me

  14. #14
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Quote Originally Posted by mklotz70 View Post
    Ray.....if I remember right, you don't use Mach3.....what CAM do you use?
    I'm using Solidworks and HSMXpress. HSMXpress is free, but only works with AutoDesk Inventor (~$1K), and Solidworks ($4K). HSMXpress is, by far, the best CAM I've seen to date, and I've looked at a lot of them. The low-cost ones (SheetCAM, CamBam, Cut2D, Cut3D, VCarve) all have their limitations, but are well worth the money if they do what you need. Of the high-end packages, I've looked at BobCAD, SprutCAM, VisualMill, AlibreCAM/VisualMill for GeoMagic Design, and several others. BobCAD/CAM I found cumbersome - many operations that are simple in other CAD/CAM systems took a lot of effort in BobCAD/CAM. Some things I never did figure out how to do. And the simulation crashed on me - a LOT. VisualMill/AlibreCAM are hands-down, the WORST I've seen. I actually bought a copy, and returned it after two weeks. I concluded the people who wrote it had never even seen, much less operated, a milling machine. SprutCAM is very powerful, but the UI is flat-out weird, and it has one mother of a learning curve. HSMXpress was very easy to learn, and has by FAR the BEST POST capability I've ever seen. It's the ONLY CAM I've ever used that allowed me to do every single thing I wanted to in my custom POST, and with very little effort. And support is great through their forum. Even though Solidworks cost me $4K, for me it was worth every penny just to get HSMXpress. It works *almost* as well with Inventor, though the Inventor port is a step behind the Solidworks port, with some features not yet implemented. But, they should be pretty well synced up before long. And the Inventor UI is better than the Solidworks UI, which is getting rather long in the tooth at this point.

    Regards,
    Ray L.

  15. #15
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    I learned using MasterCam at school. Got BobCad with my machine and found it to be awkward. For me, CamBam is logically a lot like MasterCam in terms of organizing the work.

  16. #16
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Thank You! I really appreciate the detailed information!!!! I think I'll get one of the low cost ones for now and then bite the bullet and switch to Solidworks a bit later this year. I really like SolidEdge and in someways it's better than SW, but it's kinda like having Beta instead of VHS......even though it may be better, everyone else is using VHS. I have yet to find anyone saying anything bad about HSMXpress, so I think I'll move towards that

    hhhhmmmmm.....it just dawned on me.....I could get Inventor and HSM now......if Inventor won't quite do what I need, I can still use SE4, then move the file over to Inventor. I have no clue what Inventor lacks compared to SW. That would get me into HSM now so I'd only have to learn one CAM. I'll have to see exactly where the budget is at.
    Thanks again!!
    Mike
    Don't have to be too bright to be me

  17. #17
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Quote Originally Posted by kvom View Post
    I learned using MasterCam at school. Got BobCad with my machine and found it to be awkward. For me, CamBam is logically a lot like MasterCam in terms of organizing the work.
    There's actually a copy of MasterCam v9 on the computer that came with my lathe, but that computer is only 400mhz. I guess I could put it back together and see if how it works.

    CamBam is looking pretty good if I don't go with the option I just posted in my reply to Ray.
    Thanks!!
    Mike
    Don't have to be too bright to be me

  18. #18
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    MasterCam V9 used the older type of windows menus as opposed to V10+, but the milling code underlying is still rock solid. Of course, with MC I did the CAD and CAM both.

    While CamBam has CAD functions, I normally do the drawing with DraftSight (free download) and open the output DXFs in CB.

  19. #19
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    mclotz70;
    Congrats on the pro. I'm in the process of setting up mine as we speak!
    Couple of questions for you. Regarding the 9X20 lathe cnc mod, did you design the mod yourself? I have a Travers Tools 9X20 collecting dust in my shop and would love to cnc it but haven't taken time to design the mounts. Any help or insight would be appreciated.
    Second question relates to your pro and is most likely for your thread followers. On my RF45 I used an aftermarket one shot oiler (Bijour clone) and when you pump the arm, It builds pressure and is spring loaded. I noted when installing my oiler yesterday that it operates a bit different. I appears to be pumping oil on the down stroke which is a different feeling that my other oiler. When you get your machine check that and post the results.
    Oh yeah, one other thing! On my machine, the oiler does not mount on the column as is pictured in most pro literature. They have moved it to the left front of the stand below the chip pan. My stand is the old configuration. I couldn't justify the upgrade cost of new style stand so I'm speaking to the old design.
    Good luck with your machine. I hope to be making chips sometime this coming weekend if my scheduls allows.
    Bill
    billyjack
    Helicopter def. = Bunch of spare parts flying in close formation! USAF 1974 ;>)

  20. #20
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    Re: Torus Pro with servos and 4th axis

    Quote Originally Posted by kvom View Post
    MasterCam V9 used the older type of windows menus as opposed to V10+, but the milling code underlying is still rock solid. Of course, with MC I did the CAD and CAM both.

    While CamBam has CAD functions, I normally do the drawing with DraftSight (free download) and open the output DXFs in CB.
    Now you have me curious about MC9....I fired it up once or twice. It uses an internet key. The computer was too slow to handle the wireless adapter and I didn't want to run a cat5 cable to the shop. Maybe I'll set it up at my desk and see how it works. Thanks!!
    Don't have to be too bright to be me

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