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  1. #1
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    Touch plate for tool measurement

    Am I missing something or is there no capacity for a simple tool touch plate to automatically measure non repeatable tools like drill bits in a chuck?

    I used to do this in Mach3 and was very simple. It would just Z down until it made contact and then load that tool offset and away we go.
    It seems archaic to have to measure each drill offline or using a sheet of paper.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Look at the "Offsets" tab on the left side... is that what you're looking for?
    You probably already know but I think you can make your own touch plate to close a circuit or purchase a fancy one from Tormach.
    Gerry
    Currently using SC7 Build 1.6 Rev. 64105

  3. #3
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Quote Originally Posted by brianbonedoc View Post
    Am I missing something or is there no capacity for a simple tool touch plate to automatically measure non repeatable tools like drill bits in a chuck?

    I used to do this in Mach3 and was very simple. It would just Z down until it made contact and then load that tool offset and away we go.
    It seems archaic to have to measure each drill offline or using a sheet of paper.

    Thanks!
    Amen!

    PP enforces a more consistent, rigorous approach to tool offsets. This is not necessarily a feature in the personal (hobby, non-production, one-off) CNC space. PP requires more setup, more planning, and a more formal approach. For the moment, the better machine control outweighs the increased overhead. So far.

  4. #4
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    have a look in the linux forum
    http://danielscnc.webs.com/

    being disabled is not a hindrance it gives you attitude
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #5
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    OK so I figured it out - thanks Gerry!

    It of course is where it should be in Offsets >> Tool.

    I did manage to get both my wildhorse probe AND a simple tool touch plate working together.

    Basically I just combined the inputs in the hal file using the xor2 and now if either the probe trips or my touch plate touches a ground - the accessory LED lights up in the Status screen and it triggers a probe input.


    Here is my .hal entry in linuxcnc that explains it - if anyone is interested:

    # Following line I added 'probe-enable-input' to xor2 to allow PROBE and Tool Touch Plate
    loadrt xor2 names=probe-active-hi-lo,probe-enable-input

    ################################################## ######################
    # Probe + Tool Touch Plate:

    # P3 pin 15 gpio 003 - This is PROBE
    setp hm2_5i25.0.gpio.003.is_output 0

    # I changed following line to invert probe input by adding "_not" - for passive probe -
    net probe-in hm2_5i25.0.gpio.003.in_not debounce.0.4.in

    net probe-active-high probe-active-hi-lo.in0
    net probe-debounced debounce.0.4.out probe-active-hi-lo.in1

    # probe active hi-low output signal to AND input with probe-enable signal
    net probe-hi-lo probe-active-hi-lo.out probe-enable-input.in1

    net probe-input probe-enable-input.out motion.probe-input

    ### I erased the 4th axis homing section which was commented out anyways and used the probe-enable-input.in0 for the touch plate
    # Tool Touch Plate - All of this was added by me- touchplate on i/o gpio 16

    setp hm2_5i25.0.gpio.016.is_output 0
    net tool_plate hm2_5i25.0.gpio.016.in_not debounce.0.5.in
    net touch_plate debounce.0.5.out

    net touch_plate probe-enable-input.in0

  6. #6
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement


  7. #7
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement


  8. #8
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Thanks for the information......

    Robert

  9. #9
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Brian
    Because you are running PP on a non tormach machine did you go into LinuxCNC and PP and change all the config file to suit your machine. Do you have a large background with LinuxCNC. Is it possible to adapt PP to a CNC router.

    Thanks

    Dave

  10. #10
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Phoneman - yeah I had to modify a few files in linuxcnc - I have no experience w/ Linuxcnc aside from quickly installing it and getting the machine moving prior to installing PP. I did this so I could modify the PP files to match my machine.
    I was like a blind squirrel looking for a nut - especially w/ no linux experience either.

    I don't see why it wouldn't work on a router.

    If you are interested - I documented my journey here - PathPilot on Non-Tormach Wikia

  11. #11
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    as long as you can add your bob settings it should go on any mill or router it`s still a dumb system you tale it what to do
    http://danielscnc.webs.com/

    being disabled is not a hindrance it gives you attitude
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  12. #12
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    I know this is an old thread, but came across it searching for an answer on how to set up a touch probe on an NM-200. The probe is a Drewtronics S5000LED, with 2 wires. I do not have a touch plate. I have a C11G rev 8.7 BOB, and have included everything in your post into my .hal file except for the # Tool Touch Plate config, but the probe doesn't work. Regardless what I've tried none of the hal meter signals change when I actuate the tip of the probe.

    The probe is wired with the red lead to terminal 15 on the BOB, and the black wire to ground. If your probe was/is 2 wire, how did you wire it up?

    I'm running PathPilot 2.0

    Thanks.

  13. #13
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Quote Originally Posted by yodaddy View Post
    I know this is an old thread, but came across it searching for an answer on how to set up a touch probe on an NM-200. The probe is a Drewtronics S5000LED, with 2 wires. I do not have a touch plate. I have a C11G rev 8.7 BOB, and have included everything in your post into my .hal file except for the # Tool Touch Plate config, but the probe doesn't work. Regardless what I've tried none of the hal meter signals change when I actuate the tip of the probe.

    The probe is wired with the red lead to terminal 15 on the BOB, and the black wire to ground. If your probe was/is 2 wire, how did you wire it up?

    I'm running PathPilot 2.0

    Thanks.
    I figured it out. The "is_output" in your hal was throwing me for a loop, until I found that the "is_output 0" sets the pin as a high impedance input. Clear as mud. Wired the red to a 5v source, and the black to the input pin, and now I'm probing.

  14. #14
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Quote Originally Posted by yodaddy View Post
    I figured it out. The "is_output" in your hal was throwing me for a loop, until I found that the "is_output 0" sets the pin as a high impedance input. Clear as mud. Wired the red to a 5v source, and the black to the input pin, and now I'm probing.
    I love my Drewtronic's Probe. Use it everyday!

    Steve

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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve303 View Post
    I love my Drewtronic's Probe. Use it everyday!

    Steve
    It seems well made. I haven't run any tests yet, but hope it will be accurate to .001 as they claim.

  16. #16
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Quote Originally Posted by yodaddy View Post
    It seems well made. I haven't run any tests yet, but hope it will be accurate to .001 as they claim.
    I ran some testing on a Drewtronics probe this week. In the Z it was repeating on a ten thousandth of an inch jog increment. I tried it many times it was exactly the same every time. I tested it on probing cycles as well. In the X and Y axis measureing two 2 4 6 blocks held together with threaded rod so 12 inch length worst case was off by 1.2 thousandths of an inch. So my measured error was .0012" over a 12 inch span. The error in the X Y could be easily explained by error in my machine or my chinese 2 4 6 blocks. I'm very happy with the results.

  17. #17
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Quote Originally Posted by upnorth View Post
    I ran some testing on a Drewtronics probe this week. In the Z it was repeating on a ten thousandth of an inch jog increment. I tried it many times it was exactly the same every time. I tested it on probing cycles as well. In the X and Y axis measureing two 2 4 6 blocks held together with threaded rod so 12 inch length worst case was off by 1.2 thousandths of an inch. So my measured error was .0012" over a 12 inch span. The error in the X Y could be easily explained by error in my machine or my chinese 2 4 6 blocks. I'm very happy with the results.
    I had a small health setback and am just now getting back to the real world, hence the delay in responding to your post.

    I was getting results similar to yours, but felt they could be better. Did some research and came across discussions on 'effective tip diameter', which takes into account the probe flex/movement and trigger time from when the probe tip actually touches, and when the signal is received and acknowledged. The suggestions were to use a gage ring and some math to figure out the effective diameter. Gage ring prices seem to run $150-400 for 1"-2" entry level rings. I don't need one for anything besides this exercise, so gave it some thought and came up with a way to determine an accurate effective diameter. It's a little tedious, but gives accurate results.

    My metal probe tip mics out at an average .1242, so this is what I had originally entered in the PP tool table. Double checked backlash settings. Then dialed in the probe tip center as close as possible following the drewtronics instructions.

    I did the following process a few dozen times using different feedrates until I found the most accurate effective tool tip diameter and feedrate.

    I used a 1-2-3 block clamped in the vise with the 2x3 plane at the top. Under PP Probe Rect/Circ run the PP "FIND RECTANGULAR BOSS CENTER" program.
    Then, go to the X/Y/Z probe tab and probe X+ Y- X- Y+ and write down the results, along with the Tool Table tip diameter and feedrate (I found 10ipm to be the most accurate).

    Decrease the tool tip diameter by .001, and repeat the above until you see your X/Y probe results going the other way. Go back to the last 'good' diameter and decrement the tip diameter by 10ths until your numbers just won't get any better.

    My final 'effective' tip diameter is .1136, which gave me repeatable X/Y results of X+ = -1.5000, X- = 1.5002, Y+ = -0.9998, Y- = 0.9999 .

    I joined 2 1-2-3 blocks and re-ran the process and got X+ = -3.0001 and X- = 3.0003. Y+ and Y- stayed the same.

    I'm running PP2.0, and see that the newer version has a probe setup which accounts for tip concentricity, and settings for probing feedrates. As soon as the new SSD arrives I'll be updating to the latest PP and see if I can get things a little tighter. It probably makes no difference for the parts I machine, but gives me something to do at 2am

  18. #18
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Quote Originally Posted by yodaddy View Post
    Gage ring prices seem to run $150-400 for 1"-2" entry level rings. I don't need one for anything besides this exercise, so gave it some thought and came up with a way to determine an accurate effective diameter.
    Ball bearing races are not as accurate as a quality ring gauge but they are usually round and pretty close to the specified diameters.

  19. #19
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    Quote Originally Posted by kstrauss View Post
    Ball bearing races are not as accurate as a quality ring gauge but they are usually round and pretty close to the specified diameters.
    That's a great idea. Thanks!

  20. #20
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    Re: Touch plate for tool measurement

    If you check eBay you can find gauge rings pretty cheap, a quick look just now showed some in the $15.00 range. A hint, the weird sized ones are cheaper than nice round numbers such a 1.0". You don't really care what size it is as long as it's clearly marked, and large enough to be easily probed.

    Terry

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