543,717 active members*
2,347 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
Page 1 of 2 12
Results 1 to 20 of 38
  1. #1
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3089

    Turret and gang tooling

    Is there a general consensus on whether turret tooling should be mounted with the insert facing up or down? I'm assuming down so that gravity tends to help clear chips but wonder if other issues might be important to consider as well.

    Also, for the folks that already have an SBL-15 with the turret, how do you have the turret tooled? If you also have gang tooling how do you split your tools between the two? I'm thinking to use a mix of ferrous and non-ferrous turning tools in the turret with one parting tool that will be used for both ferrous and non-ferrous, and possibly with a spotting drill in one of the turret positions. Gang tooling would be dedicated to drilling or boring tools.

    Does that seem like a reasonable approach? I half-expect that the initial tool loadout will go through a few iterations before a good one is found but it would be nice to learn from other's experiences.

    Mike

  2. #2
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    325

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHenry View Post
    Is there a general consensus on whether turret tooling should be mounted with the insert facing up or down? I'm assuming down so that gravity tends to help clear chips but wonder if other issues might be important to consider as well.

    Also, for the folks that already have an SBL-15 with the turret, how do you have the turret tooled? If you also have gang tooling how do you split your tools between the two? I'm thinking to use a mix of ferrous and non-ferrous turning tools in the turret with one parting tool that will be used for both ferrous and non-ferrous, and possibly with a spotting drill in one of the turret positions. Gang tooling would be dedicated to drilling or boring tools.

    Does that seem like a reasonable approach? I half-expect that the initial tool loadout will go through a few iterations before a good one is found but it would be nice to learn from other's experiences.

    Mike
    Despite that the tool that Tormach supplied for alignment of the turret forced me to use it face up, tools will generally be mounted with the insert facing down. What is also strange and has me confused is that the coolant nozzles are on the top side of the tool holder and not the bottom making it impossible to have it spray on the face of the insert. Nevertheless, the conversational programs do not let you reverse the spindle rotation.

    I have the Aloris style quick change tool holder in combination with my turret. I had the same CXA toolholders for my manual lathe so I went that route to start out. Eventually I will set up gang tooling as another option. I hope to just change insert styles (and keep the same toolholder mounted to the turret) to switch between ferrous and non-ferrous in most cases.

  3. #3
    Registered
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    111

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    I have my tools loaded in my turret face down. So when the spindle is spinning clockwise it is cutting correctly. I have 4 OD tools mounted on the turret and 4 ID tools. I also have a 2 Position gang tooling. I then use the Gang Tooling for Drilling Operations.

    I have the following in my turret
    RH OD Turn - MCLNR 12-4C
    Cut off / Groove - SGTHR 19-4
    RH Profile - MVJNR 12-3C
    OD Thread - CER0750K16
    Center / Spot Drill - #3
    ID Thread - 3/4 Shank - SIL0375H11
    Boring Bar
    Small ID Thread - Empty Spot - Just recently added

    About the only changes I make are the gang tooling drills and I do change the inserts on the OD tools depending on the material I am cutting, but most of the time I just use the same carbide insert.

    This has worked for most of my stuff I have run, but with that said, I have only had the 15L for less than 4 months

  4. #4
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    About 9 months of weekends here.
    You'll get used to the inverted tools on the turret side. They do help a bit with chips falling downward but you still wind up with wild ones that get wrapped up.
    As far as coolant goes, I just shoot it at the bottom of the cutting edge of the tool. That is where the heat is generated or at least as close as you can get. IMO

    Quick change tool post tools will usually be right side up and a Negative Diameter when put into tool offset.

    Love the turret though!

  5. #5
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3089

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Thanks all.

    cbyrd - your tool selection for the turret is pretty much what I was thinking, so it's good to know that has worked, at least for a few months. Do you find that tool offsets stay the same after an insert change? Even when you change from ferrous to non-ferrous for the same type of insert?

    Saab - it looks to me like the copper coolant tubes are long enough so that they can be discharged under the toolholder:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilcrnG1QcyU

    Does anyone know if the Posi-lock gang tool holders can be changed out without losing their individual offsets? I'm thinking mostly of the tutning/facing holder here and wondering if a selection of infrequently used tools could be mounted each in it's own Posi-lock holder, preset, and then swapped in/out without having to preset them again.

  6. #6
    Registered
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    111

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    I check my tool offsets after every change of the insert and even after running the tool for a while just to keep everything as tight in tolerance as I can. The inserts I have been using do pretty good at cutting both ferrous and non-ferrous materials.

    I have the coolant lines in a tool box and have not installed them yet.... I have them point pretty good for coolant.

    I did add a 1/4 turn ball valve on the turret to shut off coolant when I switch to gang tooling.

  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    There is a plug on the operator side of the turret. I put the plastic coolant flex line and ball valve in there for the hard to reach cuts. Line from pump went into the backside.
    I made my own copper lines but they corrode and I'll be going to brake lines when i get a chance.

    I don't worry too much about changing offsets when changing inserts at this point. Good to keep an eye on dimensions though so you can learn the trends.
    You do know that every time you E stop or start up the machine, or ReReference, ALL the tool offsets will have to be reset. Home switches vary anywhere from .015-.030". Again when I have time I'm looking to upgrade the homing switches, with some help from guys at work. Nobody has any time as of late.

  8. #8
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1458

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by Scharged View Post
    You do know that every time you E stop or start up the machine, or ReReference, ALL the tool offsets will have to be reset. Home switches vary anywhere from .015-.030". Again when I have time I'm looking to upgrade the homing switches, with some help from guys at work. Nobody has any time as of late.
    Not having the SPL (but I do have the 1100), I have a question about this:

    Why not have one tool as the reference to zero the Z axis off of, and all the other tools set up with their tool offsets based off that reference tool? That way you only have to touch off one tool. That is what I do with my 1100.
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  9. #9
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    I'm still learning but that is what the work offset is for. Set all the tool offsets and then change one offset to shift everything. I suppose that would work and would prevent setting all of them each time. You just have to remember to keep that offset in with the number you put in for a big shift. Hmm might have to try that. Gotta learn some how!

  10. #10
    Registered
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    111

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    When I start the machine or after an e-stop. I reference tool number 1 and the rest of the tools will be on. If you do a test cut, measure that and set your work offset, your tool offsets should be ok.

  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1458

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    so at least 5 owners in this thread. The owners list is growing!

    Do you all have turret and the gang plate? After owning for awhile, do you still think it is worth getting both (I want the turret, but wondering what functionality only the gang plate is providing you)?
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

  12. #12
    Registered
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    111

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Yes, I have both the Turret and Gang plate.
    I have a 3 Position tool holder but I only use 2 positions for tool clearance.

    I do feel it is a good match. I can put longer drills in the gang plate holders for boring. I get more clearance with the gang plate on long tools compared to the turret. I started with just the turret and was drilling some barrel inserts and it was hard to get the long drill bits to clear the tooling. I generally leave the tooling in the turret set and only change the gang tooling.

  13. #13
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by cbyrd View Post
    When I start the machine or after an e-stop. I reference tool number 1 and the rest of the tools will be on. If you do a test cut, measure that and set your work offset, your tool offsets should be ok.
    Thanks
    I'll set that up tomorrow. I understand what the offsets do, just hard to get a mental picture of whats going on.

  14. #14
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by cbyrd View Post
    When I start the machine or after an e-stop. I reference tool number 1 and the rest of the tools will be on. If you do a test cut, measure that and set your work offset, your tool offsets should be ok.
    Thanks
    I'll set that up tomorrow. I understand what the offsets do, just hard to get a mental picture of whats going on.

  15. #15
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Quote Originally Posted by tmarks11 View Post
    so at least 5 owners in this thread. The owners list is growing!

    Do you all have turret and the gang plate? After owning for awhile, do you still think it is worth getting both (I want the turret, but wondering what functionality only the gang plate is providing you)?
    It depends on what you want to make. Me, i wanted flexibility. I have a turret and a 40 position qctp mounted on an aluminum block I machined. The lighter cutting stuff will be done by that, where rigidity is needed I'll use the turret.

    Real estate is at a premium on this machine.
    My set up goes like this...1-8

    OD rough turning
    OD finish
    External threading
    Grooving (round nose tool) This one I swap out with others but I need to get the qctp base remade so I can move and align it easily. Bolts are too close to the post.
    Rigid ER16 collet holder for drilling. Bored it out also.
    Boring bar holder with tormach bushing/holders
    Parting tool

    The idea being that I can work my way around the turret in order or close to it. Somewhat successful. I'll rearrange the threading and grooving before I setup the offsets again, permanently I hope.

    Tormach tool holders are great, good price. Others I have are Micro 100 sets, 5/16 (from manual lathe I had and 5/8 shank just purchased. 5/8 is the largest shank size in those sets.
    Nice tools I think.

    Oh I bought the shorter gang plate and sawed it off so I could mount the qctp and move it around with a little more flexibility and still have a slot down the middle for larger diam stuff.

    Anyway that's my 2 cents worth.

  16. #16
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3089

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    I don't have the lathe yet, but my thought was to use the gang tool plate for long tools, like drills, reamers or deep boring. I asked Tormach about combing the QCTP and the turret and was advised that gang tooling was a better complement for the turret. I have a spare Aloris BXA toolpost and a bunch of BXA holders with tooling for my manual lathe so will be able to play try QCTP tools if the gang tooling doesn't seem to work out for my needs.

  17. #17
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Here is an image of my current tool layout. The tools for my QCTP are upside down. I left plenty of room between the tools. For small parts like I am making, I could insert a few more tools with no trouble. As it is, all my drills are the same length in the ER tool holders and all use the same tool position and number. The holders register on the block much like TTS tools do on the spindle. I typically use my boring bars in the same spot as well, but use them manually. It would not be difficult to measure them to be the same as the drills if I needed.

    The numbers you see when you have to rehome the machine seem very odd to me. Mine repeats within about .002" to .003". Sometimes closer than that. That is both X and Z switches.
    Mine is number 116 off the line. I wonder if different switches were used on different build lots? .015-.030" is alot.

    Lee

  18. #18
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeWay View Post
    Here is an image of my current tool layout. The tools for my QCTP are upside down. I left plenty of room between the tools. For small parts like I am making, I could insert a few more tools with no trouble. As it is, all my drills are the same length in the ER tool holders and all use the same tool position and number. The holders register on the block much like TTS tools do on the spindle. I typically use my boring bars in the same spot as well, but use them manually. It would not be difficult to measure them to be the same as the drills if I needed.
    The numbers you see when you have to rehome the machine seem very odd to me. Mine repeats within about .002" to .003". Sometimes closer than that. That is both X and Z switches.
    Mine is number 116 off the line. I wonder if different switches were used on different build lots? .015-.030" is alot.

    [IMG]http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php
    attachmentid=290394&d=1440114271[/IMG]

    I dont know about the switches but I was a little wrapped around the axle on that one. But come to find out, like cybrd said you use tool 1 as a reference.

    So I set x and z zero on all 8 tools.
    Now when I restart I move to where I want zero and hit zero on the DRO.
    All tools now follow new zero.
    Take a cut with tool 1
    Type measured dimension into X DRO.
    Now all tools shift same amount.
    Depending on how well I set tool offsets, should be darn close.
    So switch accuracy really means very little. Needs to be .0005 or less to be of real value.
    Really happy I got that one figured out. Saves a bunch of time.
    Sorry for long reply

  19. #19
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    I understand that. This is how I was doing it until I figured out the switches were that close. That was the measured diameter differences between parts without rezeroing anything. That means the .003" at worst was only half that. So .0015". That is pretty good switch accuracy and well within my tolerances for my production parts. Now were I to need better accuracy, just zero it like you mention and away we go.
    I have measured parts that were made a week apart and they were almost identical. I only tested with calipers, but I will mike the ones I make tomorrow with the same kind I made today and let you know the results.
    My lathe sits right in front of the shop AC so it is always about the same temperature. I am sure that may play a role in some shops.

    The little stop tool that I bought from Tormach is also useful. I preset the stock using that tool. I always face just a tad on each part, so even if Z is off much, it won't count.
    Kinda self zeroing like that.
    Lee

  20. #20
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6618

    Re: Turret and gang tooling

    Another little trick I figured out with no measuring when you are first setting up gang tool blocks. I insert a 3/4" bar into the collet. The feed the empty gang tool holder over the bar. Feed it through and then you know that position is zero.
    Or the old measuring thing works too.
    Lee

Page 1 of 2 12

Similar Threads

  1. Quick Change vs Gang vs Turret tooling
    By MichaelHenry in forum Tormach Slant Lathe
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-09-2014, 08:46 PM
  2. Gang tooling for revolving turret
    By uperez in forum CNC Tooling
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-27-2013, 04:05 AM
  3. Gang tooling help..
    By roger_e in forum Vertical Mill, Lathe Project Log
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-30-2010, 01:03 AM
  4. Gang tooling vs turret
    By baldysm in forum Uncategorised MetalWorking Machines
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-03-2007, 11:47 PM
  5. Gang tooling vs turret
    By baldysm in forum CNC Tooling
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-29-2007, 06:03 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •