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  1. #1
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    Sep 2007
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    VFS5 ERR18 BAD TL

    Hello,
    I have a problem on a VFS5: When I want to turn the spindle I have a message on MOTIONLINK ERR18 Bad TL.
    I have downloaded the TL from the inverter and it looks okay.
    I don't know where to look
    If anyone can help?

  2. #2
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    Sep 2010
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    Re: VFS5 ERR18 BAD TL

    If you downloaded the TL and it looks fine, then this error means what it typically means: the BRAM battery is dead and needs replaced. It is not field replaceable. We (sales@KilroyWasHere.com) do that, as well as Siemens group (I dont have their contact info), and maybe Fives [(800) 934-0735] will handle it for you and send to one of us.

    The design life on that battery was about 6 years; most of our VFS5 drives are now around 25 years old. The replacement batteries in the BRAM chips today are better than ones from 1995 and have a life expectancy of over 10 years IIRC: I cannot say we ever have had a replaced one come back needing new again.

    Know that if the battery has a little life left, sometimes you can get the spindle to turn on if you cycle power; might take 4-5-10 tries but sometimes it comes alive. Then it generally stays OK until next power down.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_Kilroy View Post
    If you downloaded the TL and it looks fine, then this error means what it typically means: the BRAM battery is dead and needs replaced. It is not field replaceable. We (sales@KilroyWasHere.com) do that, as well as Siemens group (I dont have their contact info), and maybe Fives [(800) 934-0735] will handle it for you and send to one of us.

    The design life on that battery was about 6 years; most of our VFS5 drives are now around 25 years old. The replacement batteries in the BRAM chips today are better than ones from 1995 and have a life expectancy of over 10 years IIRC: I cannot say we ever have had a replaced one come back needing new again.

    Know that if the battery has a little life left, sometimes you can get the spindle to turn on if you cycle power; might take 4-5-10 tries but sometimes it comes alive. Then it generally stays OK until next power down.
    Hi Mike,
    Thank you for your reply.
    I’ve tried to exchange the cpu card from working drive and the problem seems related to power section card
    How cpu communicate with power section?

  4. #4
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    Re: VFS5 ERR18 BAD TL

    hOW COMMUNICATE? pins and cables.

    So if problem is not on cpu card, then time to back up and do regular diagnosis checks...

    First and foremost: remove the 3 motor leads from Ma,Mb,&Mc terminal block and try again: if no fault, then the problem is in the spindle motor cable or motor itself. ohm out the cable, etc. get to point to hook it back to drive and unhook it inside motor terminal box: still OK? then your motor is shorted or shorted to ground.

    Does your CNC show spindle RPM? rotate spindle and verify the rpm is reading all the way back to CNC: if not, diagnose the spindle feedback stuff.

    hook computer up to vfs5 and ask it what is wrong - it will tell you. If you cannot, and you checked the other wire connections, you are point of sending it in for repair.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2007
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    Re: VFS5 ERR18 BAD TL

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_Kilroy View Post
    hOW COMMUNICATE? pins and cables.

    So if problem is not on cpu card, then time to back up and do regular diagnosis checks...

    First and foremost: remove the 3 motor leads from Ma,Mb,&Mc terminal block and try again: if no fault, then the problem is in the spindle motor cable or motor itself. ohm out the cable, etc. get to point to hook it back to drive and unhook it inside motor terminal box: still OK? then your motor is shorted or shorted to ground.

    Does your CNC show spindle RPM? rotate spindle and verify the rpm is reading all the way back to CNC: if not, diagnose the spindle feedback stuff.

    hook computer up to vfs5 and ask it what is wrong - it will tell you. If you cannot, and you checked the other wire connections, you are point of sending it in for repair.

    Hi,
    I'm trying to figure it out.
    I'm doing test without connecting Ma,Mb,Mc
    When connecting to A2100 it show the position.
    The test i do is to connect motionlink and put EN command. On the working one it gave me ERR14 powerbus (normal because the DC BUS is not present) and on the damaged one it gave me ERR18 Bad TL
    on the manual they say that the current rating is programmed on the control board and on the power board. I do not see any programmable memory on the power section. Maybe the TIBPAL16L8CN25?

  6. #6
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    Re: VFS5 ERR18 BAD TL

    Quote Originally Posted by seraum View Post
    Hi,
    I'm trying to figure it out.
    I'm doing test without connecting Ma,Mb,Mc
    When connecting to A2100 it show the position.
    The test i do is to connect motionlink and put EN command. On the working one it gave me ERR14 powerbus (normal because the DC BUS is not present) and on the damaged one it gave me ERR18 Bad TL
    on the manual they say that the current rating is programmed on the control board and on the power board. I do not see any programmable memory on the power section. Maybe the TIBPAL16L8CN25?
    Interesting... in my 40 yrs working with the VFS5 I have never seen that description! Bad TL tells me the file loaded is bad (you proved it is not) or the Batt in the BRAM dallas chip is dead and on power up it cannot load the TL from prom to ram properly. Guess from your test if we tried to change cpu card out with one from a different current rating drive that might also cause it.

    Interesting test to type EN and and see what fault pops up; good you had comparison available to see that the order of faults is bad TL before powerbus in the hierarchy.

    We always just try to align, see the red fault LED, so then unhook the 3 motor power leads and try again. If no fault, then problem is in cable/motor. If still fault, then, if able to go into drive with motionlink plus, look at error history list (choice under HELP tab at top of screen); it then tells the issue that caused the fault lite to come on. I would assume yours will have bad TL at the top of the list (latest faults), and that is when we say the BRAM chip needs replaced and replace it.

  7. #7
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    Re: VFS5 ERR18 BAD TL

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_Kilroy View Post
    Interesting... in my 40 yrs working with the VFS5 I have never seen that description! Bad TL tells me the file loaded is bad (you proved it is not) or the Batt in the BRAM dallas chip is dead and on power up it cannot load the TL from prom to ram properly. Guess from your test if we tried to change cpu card out with one from a different current rating drive that might also cause it.

    Interesting test to type EN and and see what fault pops up; good you had comparison available to see that the order of faults is bad TL before powerbus in the hierarchy.

    We always just try to align, see the red fault LED, so then unhook the 3 motor power leads and try again. If no fault, then problem is in cable/motor. If still fault, then, if able to go into drive with motionlink plus, look at error history list (choice under HELP tab at top of screen); it then tells the issue that caused the fault lite to come on. I would assume yours will have bad TL at the top of the list (latest faults), and that is when we say the BRAM chip needs replaced and replace it.
    Hello,
    Thank you. The problem is solved. Found some failed IC, Diode, Resistor on power card.

  8. #8
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    Re: VFS5 ERR18 BAD TL

    Quote Originally Posted by seraum View Post
    Hello,
    Thank you. The problem is solved. Found some failed IC, Diode, Resistor on power card.

    Great job!

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