[Retrolaw]

Hello there.

Please would anyone who is selling a used, Elumatec SBZ 130 profile machining center, contact me. We currently have one machine, which has now reached full capacity. We are looking for one or two, more.

Cheers for now.
Rhett.

[zjbmwjc]

You can view the following URL:

http://www.machineseeker.com/A568248.html

Good lock !

[Retrolaw]

Hello there, zjbmwjc.

Thanks for the info.

We have finally found a good used machine, for a price that
we can work with. The machine should be on our premises,
around the 3rd week of June.

Cheers for now.
Rhett.

[joeforbes]

Does anyone have a problem with their Elumatec SBZ 130 Profile Machining Center? I’m working on one now and im having trouble with the turret not changing tools right. Looks like the spindle wants to orient while its making a tool change. Any suggestions what to do to fix this problem?

[Retrolaw]

Hello there, joeforbes.

If I understand your machine's problem correctly, when you choose to change a tool, the turret is jamming before it can reach the next tool. Our machines have had this problem a number of times. It normally occurs when the drive belt has skipped a tooth or two - maybe on a large diameter tool or if a tool gets stuck when drilling solid material. Or if the belt has recently been change and is still a bit too slack.

The machine is supposed to orientate the spindle, so that the flat driving dogs in the hub of the turret line up parallel to the X-axis. This will allow the tongue of the drive to slide out of the groove of one station's spindle and into the next. The machine "knows" this position only by remembering the offset on the spindle resolver, relative to the motor's home position. Resolvers map their position using windings in an electromagnetic field and encoders map their position using a glass disk with etchings in it.

Anyway, so now the belt is a couple of teeth out and instead of the motor lining up the spindle, it lands up getting it wrong. It still returns to the offset in it's memory and since it doesn't know that the belt jumped, it thinks it's right. Then it gives the signal that it is in the correct position for a tool change and the turret starts to turn. But because of the missalignment of the tongue and groove driving dogs, the tool changer gets jammed and gives some sort of message "??? TOOL CHANGE EXCEEGN!!??" or something like that. I just remember that the spelling was all wrong.

If you've checked this and you're sure that resetting the resolver isn't going to solve it, then feel free to tell me that I'm barking up the wrong tree :-)

If we're still on the right track, then this is what you need to do. You need to manually align the spindle axis and then reset the spindle resolver. Lets start with aligning the spindle axis. Start by taking the aluminium cover plate off the front of the turret (M6 cap screws - 3 off) There is a large O-ring that may fall out from behind it. Pop it back in it's groove on the cover plate with a bit of grease, to stop it from falling out later when you put the cover back on. Then undo the 4 M5 cap screws that hold the steel cap behind the cover plate. When you pull the steel cap out, you will see all the spindles around the edge of the hole, that drive each of the stations. These have a tongue on the end. The vertical shaft in the center has the groove in the bottom end, and this will most likely be out of line. Now that you can see what's going on inside the centre of the hub, you can start to move the spindle axis.

Here are 4 pictures to show you what you're going to be doing, as far as removing covers and lining up the tongue on the flat drive dog. Oh, a quick hint. When navigating the menus, you don't have to push the up and down arrows and press enter, to carry out a command or make a selection. You can also just use the number pad and press the number that corresponds to the menu items you want to select. An example would be typing 124 when you are on the main screen, to get the machine to return to service position. Starting from the main screen again, you can type 1217 if you want the machine to index the turret to tool seven. Anyway, on with the task at hand.

Here's what to do. Push the blue buttons to reset the safety beams and make sure that the E-stops are off and the round green power button at the top of the control panel, is on. Starting from the starting screen/main menu: Choose menu 1 (Operation) then choose option 2 (Manual) then option 2 (Move Axis) Now you will be on a screen that allows you to move each axis. Enter 1 into the axis box (this is for the spindle) use the down arrow to highlight the box for "Jog %" and put in 0.01 . This is the slowest that you can move the spindle. If you need to move more than 45° then make it 0.1, otherwise it'll take a while. Then change it back when you're close. Push the down arrow to exit this box so that the machine accepts the entry. Then look at the bottom of the screen and push the button that lines up with the option "CREAP-" this will turn the spindle clockwise. If you need to go anti-clockwise, then push the button that lines up with "CREAP+" You will need to hold the button down. When you're close, then step through the beam and have a close look at the tongue on the drive dog. You can check it's left and right faces, relative to the machined face of the turret hub, with a depth gauge, to see if it's properly aligned. The readings should be equalish. 0.25mm isn't going to cause a train smash. If you're really confident, then you can just eye-ball it. If you need to move it again, don't forget to reset the blue light, otherwise nothing will happen. Now once you're reasonably sure that it's all in line, you need to update the resolver. It is important that you don't command the machine to exchange tools, at this point. Otherwise it'll quickly jump to the wrong position that it has in memory and you'll have to line up the tongue again (yes, I've kicked myself many times for doing this).

Now to update/reset the resolver. Press escape, until you get back to the main menu. Then choose 5 (Service), then 2 (Control), then 2 (System), then 2 (Axes). Now a little window message will pop up and the machine will ask you for a pass code or pin. When this happens, press F10 to clear the message and then type in 4900 and press enter. When the password dialogue dissapears, you can continue down the menu. Choose 2 (Axes Parameters), and you will see a screen that has the different axes listed. Push the down arrow or up arrow to highlight the spindle axis, which is numbered, axis 1.1 and then push the enter key. You will now be in a new screen that allows you to make changes to the current axis. Push the down arrow once, to highlight "Resolver" and then press enter. A little window pops up on the right, where you will now update the offset for the resolver and tell the spindle motor where it's new home position is, for it to turn to before it starts a tool change. Now push the down arrow twice, to get to "Encoder Offset" and press enter. Type 179.999 in the highlighted box and press enter. Then press F10 for "Ok", then F5 to "Load Axis", then F10 for "Ok" and F10 for "Ok" again. You will now be in the screen that lists the different axes. Press the escape key 5 times to get back out to the starting screen, or main screen. Leave a 1 sec pause between pushing the buttons, so that the machine can catch up.

Now to test the tool changer. The moment you've been waiting for. From the starting screen, press 1 (Operation), then 2 (Manual), then 1 (Change Tool), then press a number from 1 to 8 and see if the change is nice and smooth. The best way to find if it's changing smoothly, is to watch the saw blade (if fitted) as you index past it. The saw blade should not "twitch/jump" as the turret swings this tool past. Our saw is on station 8, so I normally change to tool 7 and then select tool 1 and then I watch the saw blade as the turret moves the saw into and out of position again. If the teeth stay still, relative to the guard around the blade, then I'm happy.

Shout if you need anymore help with your SBZ130,
and hopefully I will know something that will help.

Cheers for now.
Rhett.

PS: Shout if you need some instructions on how to backup or restore your machine's memory. We had a power faliure the other day, but we dropped one phase before the other 2 failed. This "untidy" shutdown caused the machine to run up against the bump stop on the left end of the X-axis every time you tried to scan the clamps. As a result the machine couldn't be used. I had to restore the memory from a previous backup, to get the machine running again. Remember that if you've got an old 2007 machine like ours, you need to check the counter that records the spindle run time and write that down before restoring. The restoring will kick the counter back to the time it was on, when the backup was performed. Silly hey? The reason that this is important, is that we've found that the spindle bearings need changing every 2500 hours of spindle run time. Pushing it up to 2700 hours will leave you at a high risk of running the bearings until they collapse. The problem with this is that the shaft that runs in them can get damaged and the housing that they fit into may also get damaged. So you need to watch how long you've run your spindle. Changing the bearings is a snap. It's just the job of taking the machine head off, that takes the time. I've made a stand that bolts onto the sliding clamps on the bed, which supports the head. I can send you a picture and some measurments if you want to make your own. The stand can turn around, when the head is off, so that you can pull the center tube out the turret, to change the bearings. When we first did the job in Jan 2008, it took us 1½ days and the use of a forklift. Now one chap can do the whole job in 3½ to 4 hours, with no lifting or rigging equipment. Anyway, that's all for now.

[angelababy]

thanks for both!

[doramider7]

Very Impressive heavy workout!



bookmarked and b back l8er, bro, :-)

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[michael muirhea]

Good afternoon Retrolaw

We have an SBZ 122 and are having an issue with the tool not releasing from the spindle when trying to do a tool change. Even when trying to do it manually we are not having any success in releasing the tool. We have had the technicians from Elumatec SA come and have a look to no avail. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Michael

[Rhett]

Hi, Michael.

Sorry I never replied. This was one of my accounts that slipped through the cracks, when my email address changed. I assume you've come right with your tool release problem? Was it a physical jam, or an interlock that wasn't releasing, due to a faulty proxy switch or something of that nature?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[Sheywood]

I have an sbz122 which also won't release tool desperate for some help.

[Sheywood]

Hi there, as stated before we have this issue it will not release tool can you help at all please.

[Rhett]

Can you go to the ATEST menu and look for the "flags" list and look at the status of the inputs and outputs. Got to outputs and push the softkey that changes the titles from address codes, to text which will describe the input or output. Then manually toggle the output to make sure the spindle release is activated?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[Sheywood]

Dear Rhett,

Thankyou for your help. The release tool is highlighted red?

Many Thanks

[Rhett]

Hi, Sheywood.

When you are viewing the screen that shows the release tool, highlighted in red, you should be able to push a button that toggles the status on and off. I am not sure which status indicates that it is clamped or free, but if you toggle it and there is nothing mechanical that has gone wrong, then the machine should let it go. We have an SBZ130, which doesn't have a tool exchange feature likr your machine, so I am guessing a bit. I will confirm with the technician that comes to sort our machines out.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[Sheywood]

Dear Rhett,

on the inputs side tool clamped is staying green I can toggle the outputs to try and release this to no avail. Is there anything else we can do?

[saibabamachines]

Why you are taking too much tension when you have other options like second hand machinery dealers.

[saibabamachines]

In how much cost you are selling it?

[mustapha]

Hallo,ik wil graag de handleiding voor vervangen de kogellagers in de pijp en hoe demonteren van de gereedschap wisselaar van elumatec sbz130 en dank u wel

[Yuppie]

Hello there, joeforbes.

If I understand your machine's problem correctly, when you choose to change a tool, the turret is jamming before it can reach the next tool. Our machines have had this problem a number of times. It normally occurs when the drive belt has skipped a tooth or two - maybe on a large diameter tool or if a tool gets stuck when drilling solid material. Or if the belt has recently been change and is still a bit too slack.

The machine is supposed to orientate the spindle, so that the flat driving dogs in the hub of the turret line up parallel to the X-axis. This will allow the tongue of the drive to slide out of the groove of one station's spindle and into the next. The machine "knows" this position only by remembering the offset on the spindle resolver, relative to the motor's home position. Resolvers map their position using windings in an electromagnetic field and encoders map their position using a glass disk with etchings in it.

Anyway, so now the belt is a couple of teeth out and instead of the motor lining up the spindle, it lands up getting it wrong. It still returns to the offset in it's memory and since it doesn't know that the belt jumped, it thinks it's right. Then it gives the signal that it is in the correct position for a tool change and the turret starts to turn. But because of the missalignment of the tongue and groove driving dogs, the tool changer gets jammed and gives some sort of message "??? TOOL CHANGE EXCEEGN!!??" or something like that. I just remember that the spelling was all wrong.

If you've checked this and you're sure that resetting the resolver isn't going to solve it, then feel free to tell me that I'm barking up the wrong tree :-)

If we're still on the right track, then this is what you need to do. You need to manually align the spindle axis and then reset the spindle resolver. Lets start with aligning the spindle axis. Start by taking the aluminium cover plate off the front of the turret (M6 cap screws - 3 off) There is a large O-ring that may fall out from behind it. Pop it back in it's groove on the cover plate with a bit of grease, to stop it from falling out later when you put the cover back on. Then undo the 4 M5 cap screws that hold the steel cap behind the cover plate. When you pull the steel cap out, you will see all the spindles around the edge of the hole, that drive each of the stations. These have a tongue on the end. The vertical shaft in the center has the groove in the bottom end, and this will most likely be out of line. Now that you can see what's going on inside the centre of the hub, you can start to move the spindle axis.

Here are 4 pictures to show you what you're going to be doing, as far as removing covers and lining up the tongue on the flat drive dog. Oh, a quick hint. When navigating the menus, you don't have to push the up and down arrows and press enter, to carry out a command or make a selection. You can also just use the number pad and press the number that corresponds to the menu items you want to select. An example would be typing 124 when you are on the main screen, to get the machine to return to service position. Starting from the main screen again, you can type 1217 if you want the machine to index the turret to tool seven. Anyway, on with the task at hand.

Here's what to do. Push the blue buttons to reset the safety beams and make sure that the E-stops are off and the round green power button at the top of the control panel, is on. Starting from the starting screen/main menu: Choose menu 1 (Operation) then choose option 2 (Manual) then option 2 (Move Axis) Now you will be on a screen that allows you to move each axis. Enter 1 into the axis box (this is for the spindle) use the down arrow to highlight the box for "Jog %" and put in 0.01 . This is the slowest that you can move the spindle. If you need to move more than 45° then make it 0.1, otherwise it'll take a while. Then change it back when you're close. Push the down arrow to exit this box so that the machine accepts the entry. Then look at the bottom of the screen and push the button that lines up with the option "CREAP-" this will turn the spindle clockwise. If you need to go anti-clockwise, then push the button that lines up with "CREAP+" You will need to hold the button down. When you're close, then step through the beam and have a close look at the tongue on the drive dog. You can check it's left and right faces, relative to the machined face of the turret hub, with a depth gauge, to see if it's properly aligned. The readings should be equalish. 0.25mm isn't going to cause a train smash. If you're really confident, then you can just eye-ball it. If you need to move it again, don't forget to reset the blue light, otherwise nothing will happen. Now once you're reasonably sure that it's all in line, you need to update the resolver. It is important that you don't command the machine to exchange tools, at this point. Otherwise it'll quickly jump to the wrong position that it has in memory and you'll have to line up the tongue again (yes, I've kicked myself many times for doing this).

Now to update/reset the resolver. Press escape, until you get back to the main menu. Then choose 5 (Service), then 2 (Control), then 2 (System), then 2 (Axes). Now a little window message will pop up and the machine will ask you for a pass code or pin. When this happens, press F10 to clear the message and then type in 4900 and press enter. When the password dialogue dissapears, you can continue down the menu. Choose 2 (Axes Parameters), and you will see a screen that has the different axes listed. Push the down arrow or up arrow to highlight the spindle axis, which is numbered, axis 1.1 and then push the enter key. You will now be in a new screen that allows you to make changes to the current axis. Push the down arrow once, to highlight "Resolver" and then press enter. A little window pops up on the right, where you will now update the offset for the resolver and tell the spindle motor where it's new home position is, for it to turn to before it starts a tool change. Now push the down arrow twice, to get to "Encoder Offset" and press enter. Type 179.999 in the highlighted box and press enter. Then press F10 for "Ok", then F5 to "Load Axis", then F10 for "Ok" and F10 for "Ok" again. You will now be in the screen that lists the different axes. Press the escape key 5 times to get back out to the starting screen, or main screen. Leave a 1 sec pause between pushing the buttons, so that the machine can catch up.

Now to test the tool changer. The moment you've been waiting for. From the starting screen, press 1 (Operation), then 2 (Manual), then 1 (Change Tool), then press a number from 1 to 8 and see if the change is nice and smooth. The best way to find if it's changing smoothly, is to watch the saw blade (if fitted) as you index past it. The saw blade should not "twitch/jump" as the turret swings this tool past. Our saw is on station 8, so I normally change to tool 7 and then select tool 1 and then I watch the saw blade as the turret moves the saw into and out of position again. If the teeth stay still, relative to the guard around the blade, then I'm happy.

Shout if you need anymore help with your SBZ130,
and hopefully I will know something that will help.

Cheers for now.
Rhett.

PS: Shout if you need some instructions on how to backup or restore your machine's memory. We had a power faliure the other day, but we dropped one phase before the other 2 failed. This "untidy" shutdown caused the machine to run up against the bump stop on the left end of the X-axis every time you tried to scan the clamps. As a result the machine couldn't be used. I had to restore the memory from a previous backup, to get the machine running again. Remember that if you've got an old 2007 machine like ours, you need to check the counter that records the spindle run time and write that down before restoring. The restoring will kick the counter back to the time it was on, when the backup was performed. Silly hey? The reason that this is important, is that we've found that the spindle bearings need changing every 2500 hours of spindle run time. Pushing it up to 2700 hours will leave you at a high risk of running the bearings until they collapse. The problem with this is that the shaft that runs in them can get damaged and the housing that they fit into may also get damaged. So you need to watch how long you've run your spindle. Changing the bearings is a snap. It's just the job of taking the machine head off, that takes the time. I've made a stand that bolts onto the sliding clamps on the bed, which supports the head. I can send you a picture and some measurments if you want to make your own. The stand can turn around, when the head is off, so that you can pull the center tube out the turret, to change the bearings. When we first did the job in Jan 2008, it took us 1½ days and the use of a forklift. Now one chap can do the whole job in 3½ to 4 hours, with no lifting or rigging equipment. Anyway, that's all for now.

Hello Retrolaw I realize this is a very old thread but but my employer recently purchased one of theses snd kinda just told me to play with it and figure it out. I've ran cnc and mill machines but this one takes the cake. I finally figured out how to get the coolant to spray manually then while it was actually running. I have some many questions I don't know where to start and it appears to me you know alot about this particular machine do any information I could pick your brain about I would greatly appreciate thanks in advance

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