[pinkpanda3310]

Hello

I've got this machine I want to build but silly me, i'm a complete beginner Please be kind.

I'd like to setup a 4th axis on an encoded servo to be used as both a lathe and milling 4th axis. A kind of a miniature mill-turn. Workable area not so big. I've got some parts already. I can give you an idea of the machine size with the following pic but I don't have any cad dwg or anything. Planning on machining metals. I won't go into too much detail about the machine if it's not needed. My question is more about the motion control / software.

Since I'm a beginner Acorn has caught my attention as it seems like it might be the easiest to setup and learn. I'm just not sure how I would go about the 2 spindles (lathe-mill).

Linux and uccnc seem like the other preferable options. I get the feeling they might have more flexibility down the track but I would be going through a lot more head scratching to get there.

I'm not a pc guru or anything, I just currently have a manual lathe and like the idea producing some parts through automation.

Any help or ideas appreciated :cheers:

[pinkpanda3310]

I was snooping around the centroid forum and found this quote by cnckeith

"right now, 0-10 vdc and 0-5 vdc analog out is the only way to control a spindle motor with Acorn.[/FONT]
we are adding PWM out and the ability to use an axis output (step and direction) to Acorn CNC12 software which will be backward compatible with all Acorn hardware!. so yes with a future software update you will be able to use PWM or step and direction to command a spindle motor in addition to 0-10 vdc analog out...."

http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3310

So it looks as though acorn will easily be compatible for what I want (in the near future).

For the uccnc controller I think i would need to hook up the 4th axis to the spindle drive and have the mill spindle on a relay. In which case i would need to manually set the spindle speed? No idea if the software can work with that.

I really don't know much about linuxcnc but my guess is it can do it, probably better than uccnc.

EDIT- sorry don't know what happened to the font here

[OlfCNC]

UCCNC supports both options, it has PWM spindle and step/dir spindle control modes. It also has PWM and analog output on some motion controllers. It also supports closed loop PID control of the spindle using encoder feedback.

[pinkpanda3310]

That's good news. Thanks OlfCNC. I'm warming to uccnc. It also has 6 asxis control so one day I could add something like a tool turret.

[pinkpanda3310]

forum.cncdrive.com • View topic - Put my name on the list for lathe users

It looks like uccnc can do what I want but doesn't have lathe mode / screenshot so it might not be as intuitive as something like acorn.

What about masso ? More $$ but I'd expect more flexibility , ease of use for that extra money.

Ease of use is kind of a high priority since I'm a beginner. I get the impression Linux is not for people who don't know code / programming.

[ger21]

You might want to spend some time on Masso's forum before you buy one.

[pinkpanda3310]

Thanks Gerry. From what I could gather masso has only a very small fanbase because it didn't perform to most people's expectation.

One thing I did find that was educational though -

Nobody is hating on Centroid.

People just have different preferences or requirements.

If there was one perfect control, then everyone would use it. But there's not, so people use what they like best, or what best suits their needs.

I should've known this would be like asking how long is a piece of string

[pinkpanda3310]

I think I've narrowed it down to centroid. Uccnc probably has more flexibility but I think centroid is more suited to me as a beginner. I've been trying to read lots the last few days. Here's some conversations I read today that swayed my final decision -

https://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=32153

https://www.forum.cncdrive.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=983

[OlfCNC]

I think I've narrowed it down to centroid. Uccnc probably has more flexibility but I think centroid is more suited to me as a beginner. I've been trying to read lots the last few days. Here's some conversations I read today that swayed my final decision -

https://forum.vectric.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=32153

https://www.forum.cncdrive.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=983

Don't forget that Centroid workers and contractors posting in those forum threads. Islaw (Gary Campbell) who is a contractor of Centroid and always talking BS about UCCNC, likely because he wants to sell his Centroid control boxes he build and posted a few videos here about it.

Also do not forget that UCCNC already supports 4th rotary axis, that forum thread is from January when it was not available, now it is already.

[pinkpanda3310]

Doh! Are you trying to make it harder for me to decide

Gary did down play uccnc but he also gave props to Wincnc. Obviously I don't know of any affiliations between members and companies. I'll try keep that in mind when reading / posting.

Which kinda leads me to this question and I mean it in the politest possible way - Are you or Ger21 affiliated? ( I'm only asking because you both replied in this thread )

At the end of the day any business affiliations with either or any member will have some infuence, i can't deny that, but i'm honestly trying to look into what suits my situation. Being a typical noob in any scenario I want "all the flexibilty AND ease of use WITHOUT all the headaches it takes for the average person" It's a bit unrealistic right? but I have to start somewhere. Acorn seems to be directed at people like me. I'm not discrediting uccnc, I guess i'm saying it's more the way these things are marketed (hence i can be infuenced).

My end goal is 4th axis milling of titanium. Hopefully I can build the machine rigid enough to do that. If it can double as a lathe (and even as a router) then all the better but since I have a manual lathe that is less important.

The problem I'm finding in my research is 4th axis work is 'a nice add-on feature' but not the primary objective of most people. I'll see if I can find more info on uccnc 4th axis stuff.

Thanks for your reply. It's inspired me to double check.

[OlfCNC]

I'm a user and I just hate to see that these people talking BS all day long.
it is just the marketing what you read in forums.
UCCNC can do 4th axis just fine:



Tell me in what aspect is the acorn more suitable for a beginner in your opinion?

[OlfCNC]

Only one video is allowed in one post so here is the second video I wanted to show:

[pinkpanda3310]

Lol, I just recently watched both of those videos. All part of the quest and drowning in info :drowning: The stepcraft video was a lttle more interesting because it showed a little of the software not just the end product ( it looked like uccnc ?? ).

"Tell me in what aspect is the acorn more suitable for a beginner in your opinion?" To that my only real answer is marketing. I've found more comments (both good and bad) about acorn. I figured if that's where the crowd is going then I'll find better support on the forums. The vectric thread that i linked above has a comment by cnckieth (yeh, i know that one works for centroid). His comment sounds like centroid have attempted the most user friendly software. Kinda difficult to discern how user friendly the other software is when the other commenters were talking about 'accel rates'.

Of course, someone in the industry might have a varstly different perspective but at the moment I'm on the outside looking in, so I appreciate your input :cheers: When I get time I'll keep looking for info on uccnc.

[ger21]

Imo, you should choose the software based on the features that you need.

Ease of use is not going to be much different for any controls out there. Unless you need to do a lot of customizing of the control.

[pinkpanda3310]

Imo, you should choose the software based on the features that you need.

Ease of use is not going to be much different for any controls out there. Unless you need to do a lot of customizing of the control.

That's handy info and not something that's easy to find out, thanks.

I'll make this list of priorities for my own clarity if nothing else.

Priorities for buying a motion controller for the first time (obviously diy specific)

1. Price - no point in looking at a $3k motion controller if I don't like the price tag. Especially if i'm a beginner.
2. Features - relevant and suited for intended use.
3. Support- brand name stuff will usually have better warranty and backup service than some chinese product (i.e. help with setup etc...). Additionally the more users of a particular product the more likely i can get web advice from other users.
4. Updates- does the manufacturer keep updating and patching bugs?
5. Additional features - that allow for expansion or future changes.
6. Negative points - since there is no one size fits all perfect controller what are the draw backs?
7. Ease of use - for some reason I thought there would be a difference between products but as pointed out this is probably a non-issue.

Since I've narrowed it down to 2 and no other has popped up in that time lets just run with those 2.

Centroid

1. Price - $300 plus $140 for pro version. Relatively attractive.
2. Features - let's put that on a table or something alongside the competition when I get around to doing it.
3. Support - lots if your pockets are deep. Otherwise it's forum support which seems relatively active.
4. Updates - I'll need some guidance here but as far as i know it's not completely bug-less but the company usually makes reasonable effort to keep it clean and updated.
5. Additional features - one thing I thought was a plus for my situation was I could switch to the free version of lathe mode. This is probably the main thing that made me think of 'ease of use'. It wouldn't make my machine a mill-turn because they would still be separate operations but still, I wouldn't need to remove the workpiece from the chuck.
6. Negative Points - requires a kind of specific pc, single core something or other. L
   imited to 4 axis among other things.

UCCNC

1. Price - controller and software ~ $230. Very Attractive.
2. Features- to be compared in separate table
3. Support - honestly I don't know what support they offer, I'm guessing a little free advice over the phone or email ? Also has a support forum but seems less active as I think most users are getting support from generic cnc forums like this one.
4. Updates - I'm guessing this is one of the least bug-ey softwares around. How it compares to centroid I don't know. I read somewhere that the programmers have their own plan for future developments and do not bow to outside influences. I'm not sure how to take that. Does it mean they are less of a crowd pleaser and more of a cutting edge leader? If so does that mean the new developments are more prone to bugs?
5. Additional features - 6 axis and more inputs and outputs from memory. Not sure what else.
6. Negative Points- No lathe mode screenset (yet) but that doesn't mean it cannot be configured that way. I'm guessing if I got good at manipulating the program this might not have that as a negative point. In fact, now that I think about it this would be benficial to me to not have to run separate programs for lathe and 4th axis work EPIPHANY! :idea::wee::banana:

I'll still run through the features to be sure but I've just swung toward uccnc

[GEBrown]

PinkPanda,
I think you are getting good advice here, but I'd like to make a couple of observations:
Centroid makes more controllers than just the Acorn. They have been in the professional CNC business for 30 years and their industrial controls are well-accepted and used in commercial big machines. They are not just a software company, they have the Oak and AllinOneDC controllers which support up to 200+ inputs and up to 8 axes.
You admit that you are just starting out and assume that UCCNC will come out with a lathe screenset or that you can figure out a way to do that yourself. I don't read all the UCCNC forums, but has that functionality been announced as a future feature? Are people writing their own screensets or compiling their own PLC's for UCCNC? As you found, it is in the current build plan for Centroid. Modifying the PLC is supported and documented.
I ran Mach3 on Gecko G540's for several years before Windows updates and changes basically obsoleted that software - not saying it doesn't run, but there are no updates - the code is 5+ years old. So I have moved my lathe and my router/mill to Centroid and StepperOnLine closed loop steppers. Centroid comes out with updates about every 3-4 months with new features and bug fixes. They have added an 8-port relay module this past year and a 16 port input/output board is in beta testing.
I am happy with my decision to change and the future outlook of Centroid Acorn.
My 2 cents,
Gary

[ger21]

I don't think anyone offers phone support, without paying for it.
UCCNC provides email support, and has a fairly active user forum.

I'm guessing this is one of the least bug-ey softwares around. How it compares to centroid I don't know. I read somewhere that the programmers have their own plan for future developments and do not bow to outside influences. I'm not sure how to take that. Does it mean they are less of a crowd pleaser and more of a cutting edge leader? If so does that mean the new developments are more prone to bugs?

I would think that it's very hard to compare bugginess. All software has bugs. What's important is that they get fixed.
Some people have complained that it's been over a year since the last "lockdown" release of UCCNC. But in that time, there have been a LOT of development releases, with lots of new features. CNC Drive tries to catch all the bugs before releasing a lockdown version, so that hopefully bugs are not an issue.
Since the development versions are prone to bugs, they are updated regularly when serious bugs are found. Minor bugs tend to be fixed with the next release, whenever that happens to be.
Since I've been using UCCNC, they've added a lot of features requested by users. So they do listen to their users.
Having said that, I wouldn't count on a lathe version anytime soon.


Note that both UCCNC and the Acorn are relatively new, and still evolving. This is not a fast process. As I mentioned, it's been a long time since the last UCCNC lockdown release.
The previously mentioned Acorn expansion board has been talked about for about a year, as well.

[OlfCNC]

PinkPanda,
I think you are getting good advice here, but I'd like to make a couple of observations:
Centroid makes more controllers than just the Acorn. They have been in the professional CNC business for 30 years and their industrial controls are well-accepted and used in commercial big machines. They are not just a software company, they have the Oak and AllinOneDC controllers which support up to 200+ inputs and up to 8 axes.
You admit that you are just starting out and assume that UCCNC will come out with a lathe screenset or that you can figure out a way to do that yourself. I don't read all the UCCNC forums, but has that functionality been announced as a future feature? Are people writing their own screensets or compiling their own PLC's for UCCNC? As you found, it is in the current build plan for Centroid. Modifying the PLC is supported and documented.
I ran Mach3 on Gecko G540's for several years before Windows updates and changes basically obsoleted that software - not saying it doesn't run, but there are no updates - the code is 5+ years old. So I have moved my lathe and my router/mill to Centroid and StepperOnLine closed loop steppers. Centroid comes out with updates about every 3-4 months with new features and bug fixes. They have added an 8-port relay module this past year and a 16 port input/output board is in beta testing.
I am happy with my decision to change and the future outlook of Centroid Acorn.
My 2 cents,
Gary

UCCNC has much more complex customisable sctripts than just PLC routines.
It has custom macros and custom plugins. Also all macros compile and run on the fly so development of them is kind of an ease even for me.
It also has built in screen editor with which you can build your own screen or just modify the screen if you want.
With UCCNC these are not only plans, but actually parts of the software already.

UCCNC is also 5+ years old, I mean it is available 5+ years, not 1 year old and marketed to be 30 years old like the Acorn.

UCCNC is also not just a software company, they make their own motion controller hardwares and breakboards and other stuff.

UCCNC has motion controller with over 80 I/Os (UC300ETH-5LPT)

I have no clue about lathe mode and even have no idea what lathe mode means, the only thing I know from videos is that people using it on lathes with success.

[pinkpanda3310]

Each time one of you guys post a reply I'm either learning something or finding a new aspect i need to look into. It helps me clarify what it is i'm wanting. I appreciate it a lot, thanks

I'll need to set aside some time to make up the comparison table of features as well as decipher which features are applicable to my intended use.

[jayd85]

yes, I am also looking to replace mach3 turn with something else the Centroid Acorn, would be a good choice for me, but I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to use WIN 10, so that is totally out,