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  1. #1
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    Which Spindle and VFD... again

    Yet another question about what spindle/VFD to buy... is there a sticky thread on suggestions made by the forum users and their experiences, maybe there should be one if not?

    I'm in the market for a spindle and VFD and have looked at the cheap Chinese models and wondered what the next step up was and who the players are in the market.

    Are there decent models available for $500 - $1K, spindle and VFD or is that pipe dream? Does it make sense to go with a Chinese spindle and quality VFD?

    My main materials are wood and aluminum but I would also like to drill and possibly cut some steel so I think I need a low RPM range for sure, this is a hobby so no business purpose here.

    I've read discussions about the number of poles in the spindle and it seems that the 6 pole units somewhat would fit my purpose but I think I'm giving up a bit in the top end RPM. Maybe the 4 pole is a better option?? I'd like to understand the differences to be able to make a better purchase for overall usage.

    So I'm thinking the following criteria...

    Air cooled with Electric fan
    3kw = 4hp
    2.2kw = 3hp

    4 pole (8k-12k rpm) 15K RPM MAX
    6 pole ( < 8k rpm??)

    - Reasonably priced for the hobbyist
    - Quality electronics

    Thanks for any input and suggestion.

    Adam,
    Gecko G540, Rack and Pinion Drives-X and A axis, 1/2-10 5 Start Acme-Z Axis
    4-THK HSR 25 Linear Slides, KL23H2100-35-4B, Power Supply-KL-600-48 48V

  2. #2
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Re: Which Spindle and VFD... again

    99% just use the 2.2Kw 2 pole spindles.

    If you are buying a $200 spindle, I don't see the point in a $300 VFD, when the $130 chinese ones work fine. Many people have run them for several years without problems. Most issues appear to be self inflicted.

    Higher quality chinese spindles can be purchased from UGRA.

    Another option is Hertz spindles from Turkey, which you can find on Ebay. (but I don't see any now)

    Teknomotor is probably the next step up. Pricing varies depending on configuration. In the $1000 range.

    You have to watch with the 4 and 6 pole motors, as they often require higher frequency VFD's (600hz-1000hz), which are not as common, and more expensive.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  3. #3
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    Re: Which Spindle and VFD... again

    Thanks Gerry, can always count on input from you.

    Do the square bodies vs round bodies have any benefits or downfalls that you can see?

    I'm thinking of going with an air cooled spindle and thinking an auxiliary fan on top seems to be the best choice.

    ER20 collect seems to be standard, what about RPM's?

    Adam,
    Gecko G540, Rack and Pinion Drives-X and A axis, 1/2-10 5 Start Acme-Z Axis
    4-THK HSR 25 Linear Slides, KL23H2100-35-4B, Power Supply-KL-600-48 48V

  4. #4
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Re: Which Spindle and VFD... again

    Square bodied air cooled probably have a lot better cooling, but I'd expect them to be louder, due to a larger fan. They may have a little more power, if they are rated more than 8 amps, like most round ones.

    RPM really just depends on what you need.

    If my round air cooled spindles go bad, I'll probably go with a square air cooled 2.2Kw with ER25 collet. They are more expensive, though, and usually 18,000 rpm.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  5. #5
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    Re: Which Spindle and VFD... again

    I was thinking something like this? Square bodied air cooled but an ER20 not ER25..

    [URL="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011BFG0RE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A7LU2GMNJQBY&psc=1"]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011BFG0RE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A7LU2GMNJQBY&psc=1[/URL]

    What's the advantage of the ER25?

    [URL="https://www.amazon.com/Air-cooled-Spindle-18000rpm-Bearings-Woodworking/dp/B01KK3GYG0/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1528554277&sr=1-1&keywords=2.2kw+air+cooled+er25"]https://www.amazon.com/Air-cooled-Spindle-18000rpm-Bearings-Woodworking/dp/B01KK3GYG0/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1528554277&sr=1-1&keywords=2.2kw+air+cooled+er25[/URL]
    Gecko G540, Rack and Pinion Drives-X and A axis, 1/2-10 5 Start Acme-Z Axis
    4-THK HSR 25 Linear Slides, KL23H2100-35-4B, Power Supply-KL-600-48 48V

  6. #6
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    Re: Which Spindle and VFD... again

    [QUOTE=adam_m;2188266]Yet another question about what spindle/VFD to buy... is there a sticky thread on suggestions made by the forum users and their experiences, maybe there should be one if not?

    I'm in the market for a spindle and VFD and have looked at the cheap Chinese models and wondered what the next step up was and who the players are in the market.

    Are there decent models available for $500 - $1K, spindle and VFD or is that pipe dream? Does it make sense to go with a Chinese spindle and quality VFD?

    My main materials are wood and aluminum but I would also like to drill and possibly cut some steel so I think I need a low RPM range for sure, this is a hobby so no business purpose here.

    I've read discussions about the number of poles in the spindle and it seems that the 6 pole units somewhat would fit my purpose but I think I'm giving up a bit in the top end RPM. Maybe the 4 pole is a better option?? I'd like to understand the differences to be able to make a better purchase for overall usage.

    So I'm thinking the following criteria...

    Air cooled with Electric fan
    3kw = 4hp
    2.2kw = 3hp

    4 pole (8k-12k rpm) 15K RPM MAX
    6 pole ( < 8k rpm??)

    - Reasonably priced for the hobbyist
    - Quality electronics

    Thanks for any input and suggestion.

    Adam,[/QUOTE]

    The main thing is to make sure the spindle is rated correctly most are not, the biggest give away is the Amp rating 2.2Kw with 6.4 amps is not a 2.2KW spindle, 6 Pole I don't believe to be of much use to anyone, should have lots of torque, but as with most of these spindles they are incorrectly rated

    The 4 Pole gives you the best of both worlds, high speed 12,000 RPM Max and 1,500 minimum speed, they have this low amp rating though, so you end up with not 2.2Kw but something round a 1.5Kw or less rated spindle

    Any good 2.2Kw will have around a 10Amp rating
    Mactec54

  7. #7
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    Re: Which Spindle and VFD... again

    [QUOTE=adam_m;2188794]I was thinking something like this? Square bodied air cooled but an ER20 not ER25..

    [URL="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011BFG0RE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A7LU2GMNJQBY&psc=1"]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011BFG0RE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A7LU2GMNJQBY&psc=1[/URL]

    What's the advantage of the ER25?

    [URL="https://www.amazon.com/Air-cooled-Spindle-18000rpm-Bearings-Woodworking/dp/B01KK3GYG0/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1528554277&sr=1-1&keywords=2.2kw+air+cooled+er25"]https://www.amazon.com/Air-cooled-Spindle-18000rpm-Bearings-Woodworking/dp/B01KK3GYG0/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1528554277&sr=1-1&keywords=2.2kw+air+cooled+er25[/URL][/QUOTE]

    Just remember Air cooled spindles you can't run at low RPM

    Like this 18,000RPM most likely has a minimum of around 8,000 RPM to12,000RPM
    Mactec54

  8. #8
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    Re: Which Spindle and VFD... again

    [QUOTE=mactec54;2188826]The main thing is to make sure the spindle is rated correctly most are not, the biggest give away is the Amp rating 2.2Kw with 6.4 amps is not a 2.2KW spindle, 6 Pole I don't believe to be of much use to anyone, should have lots of torque, but as with most of these spindles they are incorrectly rated

    The 4 Pole gives you the best of both worlds, high speed 12,000 RPM Max and 1,500 minimum speed, they have this low amp rating though, so you end up with not 2.2Kw but something round a 1.5Kw or less rated spindle

    Any good 2.2Kw will have around a 10Amp rating

    ...

    Just remember Air cooled spindles you can't run at low RPM

    Like this 18,000RPM most likely has a minimum of around 8,000 RPM to12,000RPM

    [/QUOTE]

    Isn't that why they add an electric fan for the low RPM units so they can cool, I don't think those are "shaft" cooled?

    What would you recommend if you looking for a unit? I really like the idea of a 1,500 - 12,000 RPM unit...
    Gecko G540, Rack and Pinion Drives-X and A axis, 1/2-10 5 Start Acme-Z Axis
    4-THK HSR 25 Linear Slides, KL23H2100-35-4B, Power Supply-KL-600-48 48V

  9. #9
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Re: Which Spindle and VFD... again

    No, those are cooled by shaft driven fans.
    Spindles with electric cooling fans will specify that, and cost much more. Not sure if I've seen any chinese spindles with electric fans, except for larger ATC spindles.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  10. #10
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    Re: Which Spindle and VFD... again

    What about something of this nature?

    This looks to have a cooling fan and ER25 collet...I would assume you could just match a VFD to it and away you go.

    [URL="https://www.ebay.com/p/HSD-At-mt-1073-120-Asynchronous-Motor-3ph-18000-RPM/6009179614?iid=272926023942&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D52475%26meid%3D6c9f0c9c7e2d45d18295203eb9cd3187%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D142825607357%26itm%3D272926023942&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851"]https://www.ebay.com/p/HSD-At-mt-1073-120-Asynchronous-Motor-3ph-18000-RPM/6009179614?iid=272926023942&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D52475%26meid%3D6c9f0c9c7e2d45d18295203eb9cd3187%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D142825607357%26itm%3D272926023942&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851[/URL]
    Gecko G540, Rack and Pinion Drives-X and A axis, 1/2-10 5 Start Acme-Z Axis
    4-THK HSR 25 Linear Slides, KL23H2100-35-4B, Power Supply-KL-600-48 48V

  11. #11
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    Re: Which Spindle and VFD... again

    [QUOTE=adam_m;2188954]What about something of this nature?

    This looks to have a cooling fan and ER25 collet...I would assume you could just match a VFD to it and away you go.

    [URL="https://www.ebay.com/p/HSD-At-mt-1073-120-Asynchronous-Motor-3ph-18000-RPM/6009179614?iid=272926023942&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D52475%26meid%3D6c9f0c9c7e2d45d18295203eb9cd3187%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D142825607357%26itm%3D272926023942&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851"]https://www.ebay.com/p/HSD-At-mt-1073-120-Asynchronous-Motor-3ph-18000-RPM/6009179614?iid=272926023942&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D52475%26meid%3D6c9f0c9c7e2d45d18295203eb9cd3187%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D142825607357%26itm%3D272926023942&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851[/URL][/QUOTE]

    Read the motor spec's understand what you need to buy, unless you have 380v you are not going anywhere with that spindle
    Mactec54

  12. #12
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Re: Which Spindle and VFD... again

    [QUOTE=adam_m;2188954]What about something of this nature?

    This looks to have a cooling fan and ER25 collet..[/QUOTE]

    That's a shaft driven cooling fan, not electric.
    I wouldn't spend $900 on a spindle sold as "As-Is, for parts".
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

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