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IndustryArena Forum > Machine Controllers Software and Solutions > Mach Software (ArtSoft software) > XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?
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  1. #1

    Question XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Hi folks - first post here. Looking for a bit of advice/help. I'm running a chinese CNCEST 6090 cnc router, mach3 control, everything working properly and as expected. win7-32bit +- mach3.043.66.

    I recently added an MPG (XHC LHB04B 4 axis USB (wired) handwheel/MPG/pendant) I bought off Amazon for around $100. Other than velocity mode not working well and and a general feel of 'disconnect' between wheel motion being proportional to machine motion, the pendant does what it's supposed to and generally works. However I have hit a problem that i simply can't work around -- unwanted motion on the X axis when making movements on other axis.

    PROBLEM: When I make a motion on the Y, Z,or A axis in continuous mode, I will occasionally get an unwanted abrupt high-acceleration/deceleration stutter motion on the X axis which can vary from .05mm up to a MM or more! I have never seen this problem with step mode. these movements will continue to accrue until the end can be several MM away from the target (certainly enough to crash a mill end or damage a part) and I have to drive it back to the target using step.


    I have never seen unwanted axis motion from any G-Code. It doesn't happen with the on-screen MPG jogging at any rate, or key commands (arrows or pageup/down) to jog. Only with this handheld pendant and only in continuous move mode (not step mode). I have tried using different USB ports, and I have reinstalled the drivers which came with the product. I have tried almost every combination of configuration I can think of - number of pulses per unit, mpg tuning, etc. And, thinking the original pendant was defective, I ordered a second unit - same behavior.

    If the problem is the "ShuttlePro.dll" driver issuing errant commands to mach3, I would expect others to have seen this, but I am not able to find any mentions, anywhere. If it's defective hardware, then I've gotten two-in-a-row that are faulty.

    Has anyone seen anything similar? Even more, does anyone know of a fix or have suggestions?

    Thanks
    John

  2. #2

    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by dustmakernc View Post
    Hi folks - first post here. Looking for a bit of advice/help. I'm running a chinese CNCEST 6090 cnc router, mach3 control, everything working properly and as expected. win7-32bit +- mach3.043.66.
    update: I downgraded to mach 3.043.62 - no changes.

    Motion on the Y, Z, or A axis will result in occasional (always positive direction) motion on the X axis, but only if using continuous mode (never Step) on the handwheel.

  3. #3
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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by dustmakernc View Post
    update: I downgraded to mach 3.043.62 - no changes.

    Motion on the Y, Z, or A axis will result in occasional (always positive direction) motion on the X axis, but only if using continuous mode (never Step) on the handwheel.
    You have noise that is causing this can happen to any type of USB connection, try some ferrite core /chokes on each end of the cable it may help, the cable is most likely not shielded if it is Ground the shield by clamping it at the USB connection end
    Mactec54

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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Change the usb cable with a high quality cable , maibe urs is not ground shield.

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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreiir View Post
    Change the usb cable with a high quality cable , maibe urs is not ground shield.
    It's part of a MPG control that would be a major job to rewire the whole MPG Control
    Mactec54

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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Dnt worry there are only 4 wire for usb connection , u go to store and buy a 3 or 5 meter usb charging phone cable , usb data , that u think is good quality , after that u open the dongle , cut the old wire , and solder them same color .
    if u cant solder , just leave inside some wire , and clamp them or swirl , and put some masking tape .

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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    My pendant is in the mail about to be delivered from an eBay seller. I hope I don't have the same problem as yours. If it were me, I'd return the product to Amazon and get another one, assuming it is within the return period. The other thing you may want to do is run a liveCD of LinuxCNC. There is a standalone program that will tell you what buttons are being pressed on the pendant and/or when the wheel is turned. That will rule out or confirm that the trouble is with the hardware vs. the DLL.

  8. #8
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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreiir View Post
    Dnt worry there are only 4 wire for usb connection , u go to store and buy a 3 or 5 meter usb charging phone cable , usb data , that u think is good quality , after that u open the dongle , cut the old wire , and solder them same color .
    if u cant solder , just leave inside some wire , and clamp them or swirl , and put some masking tape .
    And you would of trashed your $100 Pendent there are dreamers every where
    Mactec54

  9. #9

    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulrounsavall View Post
    My pendant is in the mail about to be delivered from an eBay seller. I hope I don't have the same problem as yours. If it were me, I'd return the product to Amazon and get another one, assuming it is within the return period. The other thing you may want to do is run a liveCD of LinuxCNC. There is a standalone program that will tell you what buttons are being pressed on the pendant and/or when the wheel is turned. That will rule out or confirm that the trouble is with the hardware vs. the DLL.
    with regards to replacement, unfortunately I already tried this. This is my second XHC pendant. The first had the additional issue of a wheel which was much less responsive.
    I will d/l the LinuxCNC liveCD and give that a try. I really appreciate the suggestion!


    Mactec54 and all,
    Thanks for the advice on noise. I've ordered some ferrite chokes and a Tripp Lite heavy shielded USB cable to connect the PC to the control cabinet. I'll also look at the cable management inside the cabinet to see if there is coupling of the X axis in any unusual fashion.
    If this were an analog handwheel, I would have immediately considered inductance, but I thought USB (being a digital, serial comm) was above this. But then all it would take is some corruption of the signal or misinterpretation at the Break-Out-Board to be in this situation. Anyways, threading on a couple chokes is a quick & easy test. I will update with results...
    John

  10. #10
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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by dustmakernc View Post
    with regards to replacement, unfortunately I already tried this. This is my second XHC pendant. The first had the additional issue of a wheel which was much less responsive.
    I will d/l the LinuxCNC liveCD and give that a try. I really appreciate the suggestion!


    Mactec54 and all,
    Thanks for the advice on noise. I've ordered some ferrite chokes and a Tripp Lite heavy shielded USB cable to connect the PC to the control cabinet. I'll also look at the cable management inside the cabinet to see if there is coupling of the X axis in any unusual fashion.
    If this were an analog handwheel, I would have immediately considered inductance, but I thought USB (being a digital, serial comm) was above this. But then all it would take is some corruption of the signal or misinterpretation at the Break-Out-Board to be in this situation. Anyways, threading on a couple chokes is a quick & easy test. I will update with results...
    John
    As for noise and where it is coming from is what you mostly need to look at, if you have a VFD Drive that is the first place to start and I would need some photos to help you with that

    The ferrites may help but if the noise level it to high this won't stop this from happening, so some photos of the cabinet wiring would help Grounds and Grounding connections
    Mactec54

  11. #11

    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    As for noise and where it is coming from is what you mostly need to look at, if you have a VFD Drive that is the first place to start and I would need some photos to help you with that
    mactec54, I appreciate the guidance.

    I see this issue even with the spindle stopped (VFD powered up). I've not seen this X-axis motion before while executing GCode or using the on-screen MPG or keyboard commands -- only while driving the machine with the pendant, and only at the instant I stop (continuous-mode) jogging on Y/Z; about 20% of the time. Only X axis moves - I do not get this unwanted motion in other axes.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    The ferrites may help but if the noise level it to high this won't stop this from happening, so some photos of the cabinet wiring would help Grounds and Grounding connections
    Construction is typical Chinese ebay - small beige angled-front cabinet, VFD mounted above the 24v power supply, perpendicular to the 4 motion control boards and BOB. Grounding through the cabinet, not star grounded. I'll try the replacement shielded USB & chokes and snap some photos afterwards if that fails to solve it.

  12. #12
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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by dustmakernc View Post
    mactec54, I appreciate the guidance.

    I see this issue even with the spindle stopped (VFD powered up). I've not seen this X-axis motion before while executing GCode or using the on-screen MPG or keyboard commands -- only while driving the machine with the pendant, and only at the instant I stop (continuous-mode) jogging on Y/Z; about 20% of the time. Only X axis moves - I do not get this unwanted motion in other axes.


    Construction is typical Chinese ebay - small beige angled-front cabinet, VFD mounted above the 24v power supply, perpendicular to the 4 motion control boards and BOB. Grounding through the cabinet, not star grounded. I'll try the replacement shielded USB & chokes and snap some photos afterwards if that fails to solve it.
    You have to correct all the Grounding with wires, that is not good to Ground a VFD Drive or anything just bolted to a painted cabinet lots have had problems with this being one of the main problems
    Mactec54

  13. #13

    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    OK. The ferrite chokes and shielded 3' USB cable came in the mail today, but they didn't help at all.
    I tried swapping the X & Y cables at the rear of the cabinet. The problem moved to the Y axis. So it's not a problem with the wirechain, steppers, etc.
    I tried swapping out the motor controllers - X & Y. The problem moved to the new controller, so it's not a bad motor controller. It's upstream (break out board, PC, pendant).

    I disconnected power to the VFD and retried. no difference. So it's not the VFD interference inside the control cabinet. (I did some lead dress and ensured 90-degree crossings for signal lines and suspended the HF line leading to the spindle away from other signal lines.

    I tried turning off high-speed USB 2.0 (480Mb/sec) in the PC bios, using only legacy (12Mb/sec). no difference.
    I upgraded to the latest pendant driver from XHC. Something from mid/late 2020 if I remember correctly. No difference.


    I think it's the pendant at this point as the system has worked fine in all other circumstances. Never a hiccup! Only when I stop jogging in continuous mode with the pendant does it act up.Jogging with the keyboard or on-screen MPG is not a problem. I know it's highly unlikely that two MPGs would be faulty, but then both came from the same seller - perhaps there was a defective production run?

    As a last-chance test, I am burning a linuxCNC image now. this will let me take Mach out of the equation (and maybe the PC, too - I can run it on my laptop). We'll see what happens...

  14. #14

    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by dustmakernc View Post
    I'll try the replacement shielded USB & chokes and snap some photos afterwards if that fails to solve it.
    as promised. before any of the tiding up and re-routing. I would prefer a copper barrier between the VFD and isolating HF & A/C lines from signal lines but it is what it is.

  15. #15
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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by dustmakernc View Post
    as promised. before any of the tiding up and re-routing. I would prefer a copper barrier between the VFD and isolating HF & A/C lines from signal lines but it is what it is.
    There is basically no Grounding at all, so very unsafe, this would not pass Code wired like this, no EMI Power Filter no shielded VFD to Spindle Cable, Power supply not Grounded Etc.

    Some of the cables used if they where twisted in there pairs, then they would be ok to as well

    It does not have to be copper to be a EMI shield Aluminum works just as well but you need more than just a Shield you need a complete rewire

    Does your Spindle have a 4 Pin Plug if it only has 3 Pins that will also have to be changed to a 4 Pin Plug, or a direct wire using a Cable Restraint Gland suitable for Shielded Cable

    See if the Pendent is Grounded to the USB Plug, you can check this on the old pendent, you are plugging this into your computer which is independent of the control box

    So the Pendent is messing with Mach3, but your control box still needs a lot of work to bring it up to electrical code requirements regardless of where the problem is
    Mactec54

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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    I've only got LinuxCNC going. I plan to automate my Harbor Freight mill-drill and also build a gantry router (probably Joe's Evolution). I'm moving to Ohio this summer so I didn't want to start getting a bunch of parts. I figured I'd start with the software and the electronics. I saw the LHB04 and thought that would be fun to play with since my LinuxCNC is still just a virtual machine on my laptop (no desktop yet). I'll let you know how mine works once it finally gets here from China (tracking shows it in Georgia as of Friday). I'm anxiously awaiting, especially given the trouble you are having.

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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    So I received my LHB04B-4 today. I was able to connect it to linuxcnc and run the simulation mode command 'xhc-hb04'. It stalled at "waiting for hb04" or something like that. I had to download the source code and change the product id to "EB93". The program in linuxcnc is looking for product id "EB70". Let me know if you need some help with linuxcnc to test. I'm definitely a novice, but I was able to run through each of the buttons and see them print out the button number on the hex dump, as well as see the hand wheel output. I don't have it working with linuxcnc yet and the XYZ output on the screen is not scrambled, but it does change as I jog around in x, y and/or z. I don't have the jogging from the pendant working yet with CNC.

  18. #18

    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulrounsavall View Post
    So I received my LHB04B-4 today. ....
    Congrats! I took your suggestion and d/l'ed LinuxCNC, got it installed and spent a few minutes with it. I was in the process of getting the LHB04B-4 setup when I realized that LinuxCNC doesn't support my USB BreakOutBoard - I would need to change to a parallel port driver, so I kind of stopped there. If I am going to swap out the BOB, I'll go with an ethernet model.

    Keep us posted on your progress with the LHB04B-4. I like the hardware for the most part and I'm eager to see how yours turns out. Maybe I'll make the leap to linuxcnc after all.

  19. #19

    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    There is basically no Grounding at all, so very unsafe, this would not pass Code wired like this, no EMI Power Filter no shielded VFD to Spindle Cable, Power supply not Grounded Etc.

    Does your Spindle have a 4 Pin Plug if it only has 3 Pins that will also have to be changed to a 4 Pin Plug, or a direct wire using a Cable Restraint Gland suitable for Shielded Cable
    ... your control box still needs a lot of work to bring it up to electrical code requirements regardless of where the problem is
    Thanks again for the guidance.
    My spindle does indeed have a 4-pin plug so i should be able to ground the shield when swap out the wiring for shielded (I have some 16/4 on the way, and i'll probably pick up some wire duct and a ground block).. I'll get the signal lines separated from motor supply, mains power and 24v, and get the ac away from signal.

    I forgot to check the USB ground. I'll take a look next time I'm out in the shop.

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    Re: XHC wired MPG/pendant in Mach3 - unwanted motion on x axis?

    Quote Originally Posted by dustmakernc View Post
    Thanks again for the guidance.
    My spindle does indeed have a 4-pin plug so i should be able to ground the shield when swap out the wiring for shielded (I have some 16/4 on the way, and i'll probably pick up some wire duct and a ground block).. I'll get the signal lines separated from motor supply, mains power and 24v, and get the ac away from signal.

    I forgot to check the USB ground. I'll take a look next time I'm out in the shop.
    Remove any paint when you mount the Bus Grounding bar then the Box will be Bonded to with the Ground connections

    You don't Ground the shield to the 4th pin that is for the Ground wire, the shield you Ground to the body of the plug like roll it back over the cable and clamp it with the cable restraint you may need some copper tape to wrap around the shield and then clamp it trim everything clean, these plugs are difficult to work with as they are not designed for shielded cable use so you have to improvise

    Check the continuity of the 4th pin to the spindle body if it is not connected which most are not then you will have to connect it inside the top cap
    Mactec54

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