[gunmaker]

I recently got my 4th axis motor installed on a used Tanshing VRNC-210 rotary table for my 2006 Milltronics RH-19 with Cent7 control. Now I need to tune the servo setup using Sigmawin+5.75. Not a lot of info available for the older Sigma II.
Parts List:
SGDH-10AE
SGMGH-09ACA61
SiigmaWin+5.75 through a serial cable to drive.

Anyone have pointers getting this to autotune on the bench? Most of the videos are for Sigma 7 and don't mirror the setup I have.
Attachment 487774

[gunmaker]

Posted over on the Milltronics section as well.

Well I finally got the 4th axis running. However when I tell it to spin 180 degrees it spins all the way around. Not sure which setting I need to change.

I got a Yaskawa servo drive parameter list from Milltronics after many messages back and forth. As well as a rotary setup sheet to change a few control parameters.

I also want to figure out where the little homing program is that tells the machine how far to go after finding the home switch . Well, mine is now a prox sensor I had to figure out how to wire up using the prox sensor triggering a relay to mimic the home switch wiring diagram. Thank God for YouTube. I can move the little home block inside the 4th axis, but that's only a rough setting. I would like to find out how to get it homed exactly where I want it.

The final drive motor to table on this Tanshing VRNC-210 is 90:1

Here's a list of parameters I changed on the servo drive and control.

FileType,User Parameters Data File
Made-by,SigmaWin200 Ver1.13
DateTime,2007/06/01 07:41:20
SERVO-TYPE,SGDH-10AE


UserPrm,000,1
UserPrm,001,0

UserPrm,100,50
UserPrm,101,650

UserPrm,103,165
UserPrm,104,40

UserPrm,10B,0

UserPrm,10F,0

UserPrm,200,0

UserPrm,202,4
UserPrm,203,1

UserPrm,207,0

UserPrm,300,184

UserPrm,401,100
UserPrm,402,800
UserPrm,403,800

UserPrm,406,800
UserPrm,407,10000

UserPrm,409,350
UserPrm,500,7

UserPrm,504,7

Control parameters changed:

PPU 1000
Axis address label 65
Home Sequence 2
Positive Limit 50000
Negative Limit -50000
Maximum Feed 5000
Rapid Velocity 6000
Fast Jog Velocity 3000
Excess Error 1.75
Max HDW Error 1.0
Proportional Gain Same as X&Y

I can't imagine what a pain in the ass this would have been had I used a DMM servo motor and drive as I originally planned. The time I've spent banging my head against the wall is time I could have spent working on my client's projects. The $100 cable to hook up SigmaWin to the drive was only useful for entering all the parameters as apparently nobody knows how to use it, or is willing to share their dark magic.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
using manufacturers software to program the drive is MOST useful. All decent servo manufacturers have such software including DMM.

As it turns out most modern AC servos are very similar and notwithstanding the different terminology used by different manufacturers if you can program a Yaskawa then
you'll probably be fine with DMM or Delta or.....

I personally use Delta servos, and even bought ($50USD) a cable to connect the servo to the PC and program them that way. Of course you reuse the same cable for every servo drive
you want to program....its not like you have to buy a new one every time you get a new servo. Programming a drive with the software is a breeze whereas programming by pushing buttons like
a microwave is really tedious and error prone.

Look at the tuning parameters, there will almost certainly be a way of reversing the sense of the Direction signal. Change just one parameter and you'll be good to go.

Craig

[mactec54]

Posted over on the Milltronics section as well.

Well I finally got the 4th axis running. However when I tell it to spin 180 degrees it spins all the way around. Not sure which setting I need to change.

I got a Yaskawa servo drive parameter list from Milltronics after many messages back and forth. As well as a rotary setup sheet to change a few control parameters.

I also want to figure out where the little homing program is that tells the machine how far to go after finding the home switch . Well, mine is now a prox sensor I had to figure out how to wire up using the prox sensor triggering a relay to mimic the home switch wiring diagram. Thank God for YouTube. I can move the little home block inside the 4th axis, but that's only a rough setting. I would like to find out how to get it homed exactly where I want it.

The final drive motor to table on this Tanshing VRNC-210 is 90:1

Here's a list of parameters I changed on the servo drive and control.

FileType,User Parameters Data File
Made-by,SigmaWin200 Ver1.13
DateTime,2007/06/01 07:41:20
SERVO-TYPE,SGDH-10AE


UserPrm,000,1
UserPrm,001,0

UserPrm,100,50
UserPrm,101,650

UserPrm,103,165
UserPrm,104,40

UserPrm,10B,0

UserPrm,10F,0

UserPrm,200,0

UserPrm,202,4
UserPrm,203,1

UserPrm,207,0

UserPrm,300,184

UserPrm,401,100
UserPrm,402,800
UserPrm,403,800

UserPrm,406,800
UserPrm,407,10000

UserPrm,409,350
UserPrm,500,7

UserPrm,504,7

Control parameters changed:

PPU 1000
Axis address label 65
Home Sequence 2
Positive Limit 50000
Negative Limit -50000
Maximum Feed 5000
Rapid Velocity 6000
Fast Jog Velocity 3000
Excess Error 1.75
Max HDW Error 1.0
Proportional Gain Same as X&Y

I can't imagine what a pain in the ass this would have been had I used a DMM servo motor and drive as I originally planned. The time I've spent banging my head against the wall is time I could have spent working on my client's projects. The $100 cable to hook up SigmaWin to the drive was only useful for entering all the parameters as apparently nobody knows how to use it, or is willing to share their dark magic.

If the sigma II Motor and Drive are a correct match, then there is no main Parameters to add just may be some of the motor specs, very simple, as the Drive will automatically set the Parameters if the motor is a match, there auto Tuning will get it near to where it can be without a load, if you add a load then you will have to tune it again.

You are asking for help to tune this Yaskawa Sigma II Drives and Motor and say DMM would be a pain in the ass, when it would have been a lot easier to use the DMM Drive and Motor just 3 Parameters to mess with, if you want too, they also have auto tuning which I have never had to use, out of the box you would have been running with no Parameters to set to get something running

[gunmaker]

right now the tune sounds pretty good by ear. running it on the test bench was quite loud and squealing.

my current problem is rotating twice the value programmed.

a recent email from Milltronics said to adjust the Pulses Per Unit on the Drive PN201. It is set at 1000. There is also a PPU parameter on the control set at 1000. Are they both supposed to be the same?

[gunmaker]

I'm sure the DMM and Delta servo systems are pretty good, they just don't make a cable that plugs into my Milltronics Interface board and the servo drive. The Yaskawa SigmaII motor listed on the Milltronics wiring schematic has an incremental encoder. Those aren't as available for other brands. I don't know enough about this stuff to wing it like I can troubleshooting a late 60's muscle car.

[mactec54]

I'm sure the DMM and Delta servo systems are pretty good, they just don't make a cable that plugs into my Milltronics Interface board and the servo drive. The Yaskawa SigmaII motor listed on the Milltronics wiring schematic has an incremental encoder. Those aren't as available for other brands. I don't know enough about this stuff to wing it like I can troubleshooting a late 60's muscle car.

You can't compare the two Servo Drives Delta don't come close to the DMM servo Drives, for ease of integration.

Then that would be a no brainer if the interface was setup for Yaskawa than that is what you would use, On the sigma II drives, which are very good, you can change the Encoder from absolute to incremental or the other way round, just download the manual it is all in there, how to set it up get the Sigma II Series Servo Users Manual you can't do it without it

You need to setup the Electronic Gearing for the Pulse input this is what they may have been talking about

If the servo is squealing. then you have the Gain set too high

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

You can't compare the two Servo Drives Delta don't come close to the DMM servo Drives, for ease of integration.

Rubbish.

Craig

[mactec54]

Another lot of Parameters / settings you will have to do is the Mechanical Rigidity Settings, this will have to be done before you can Auto Tune the Drive

Section 6.3.2 in the Manual just choose one and try it default may be a good starting point, if your drive was not new then you may want to do a reset and start over.

[mactec54]

Hi,



Rubbish.

Craig

Thats because you don't know any better and Delta is all you have worked with, ( so how many delta have you install to become an expert that could compare, is it 4 now ) I have worked with most servo manufacturers, installed hundreds of systems so can give a true evaluation, the Delta is very basic Servo Drive which I also use, the Panasonic is a better Servo system, there are many I could name that are better, DMM have advanced adaptive control, the heart of only the most advanced Servo Drives, they also have 8 Bit Encoder security, and much more that you will never find in a Delta servo Drive, this can only be found in some high end Servo systems, so as usual you don't know what you are talking about, I was asked recently by Yaskawa to do an evaluation / survey and had to compare DMM, because I use both Yaskawa / DMM mostly and some others, so the biggest Servo manufacture # 1 in the world had an interest in DMM because of their advanced design technology, they paid me to do the evaluation survey which I completed 2 weeks ago

[joeavaerage]

Hi
BS matec, the B3 series servos are right up there with the very best. Your inexperience with their current product line is clear.

Craig

[gunmaker]

I changed the 201 parameter from 1000 to 2000 on the SigmaII drive only and this solved the doubling of the programmed feed. Yea!

I do have the manual for the SigmaII but I'm more of an operator when it comes to working on the electronics part of the CNC. Just point me in the right direction and tell me what to do as I don't have time to learn about it know why, I just wanted it done. I'm not a wiz at programming my machine, but I get by.

I'm not sure I need to spend any more time tuning as it runs pretty smooth now.

[gunmaker]

I was hoping I could use the SigmaWin tune all 4 axis after watching this video from Yaskawa.

https://youtu.be/Rqto_wxAvKU

I'm sure that surface finishes would benefit form a complete custom tuning, I just can't find any Youtube videos that do this with SigmaWin5.75 and SigmaII. The newer versions have lots of videos. Mine, not so much.

[mactec54]

Hi
BS matec, the B3 series servos are right up there with the very best. Your inexperience with their current product line is clear.

Craig

I have some B3 sitting on the self for a customer, as I said I use many different manufacturers servos systems, the B3s barely make it to the middle of the road as servo system go, so you should not pretend to be an expert on servo drives just by reading an article about them.

Why would you even talk about a B3 when you have never even installed or used one, this must be embarrassing that I call you out for what you post.

[mactec54]

I was hoping I could use the SigmaWin tune all 4 axis after watching this video from Yaskawa.

https://youtu.be/Rqto_wxAvKU

I'm sure that surface finishes would benefit form a complete custom tuning, I just can't find any Youtube videos that do this with SigmaWin5.75 and SigmaII. The newer versions have lots of videos. Mine, not so much.

You won't find it either because each machine will have its own set of Parameters.

This could help your machine but may make it worse as well normally a machine like you have, are factory programed to suit the machine inertia / loading Etc. unless you know these numbers, they used and what rigidity profile they used, you may make it worse.

So. in the Manual Section 6.3.2 you would have to know what Profile they used, or if they did a custom Rigidity profile, to suit their machine, before you try doing an Auto Tune.

You would also want to save each Drives Parameters as a backup.

[gunmaker]

Mactec54
When you tested the DMM servos for Yaskawa, what model/models did you test?
DYN5?

[mactec54]

Mactec54
When you tested the DMM servos for Yaskawa, what model/models did you test?
DYN5?

It was more about tech evaluation than performance as Yaskawa is number 1 in the world, it's hard to compare anything to their servo systems, they too have adopted some of the same tech features that DMM have used for years, in the Sigma 5 /7 are the power houses right now, but your Sigma II Drives I like as well even though they are more than 15 Year old Tech they are still better that the Delta B2 Drives, all the manufactures are getting better and are adding different features, DYN5 is there latest with even more Tech, but all of their servo system in general are very good, there is a Zone poster that has a DMM servo setup using a double closed loop system, his servo system is one of the very first that DMM sold in the retail market, so is very old and he machines molds every day, I will find his thread and post a link.

[gunmaker]

Sigma 7

Sigma 7 vs DMM #?

[mactec54]

Sigma 7 vs DMM #?

As I said Yaskawa is #1 in the World you can't compare any other system to theirs, Tech and ease of use is number 1when it comes to servo system integration which you get with DMM, that is what they were interested in.