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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Spindles / VFD > Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD
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  1. #1
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    Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    I have a Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 spindle I am attempting to drive with a Durapulse GS3 VFD. The spindle motor is 4 pole and not permanent magnet. The data plate as well as online specs say nothing about the base frequency of the drive but it is listed as 200volts with speed rated at 1500/8000. When trying to run the spindle with 50hz or 60hz base frequency I cannot get it to spin properly so......... I tried 400hz base frequency which is the only other option with the GS3 drive.
    When running at the 400hz 200volt settings at an output freq of 50hz the spindle rotates at 1500rpm with a no load current draw of 3amps and the drive is outputting 25volts.
    @100hz the applied voltage is 50.6 and the current is 3.5A.
    All the above values are when running Sensorless Vector mode. When running in V/hz mode the values are a bit higher.

    I assume I should be running 266.66hz at 8000 rpm.
    Would I be safe in setting up a custom V/hz based on 266.66hz @8000rpm and 200volts?
    Assuming the above is correct that'd be about .75volts per hertz so I should be outputting more like 27.5volts at 1500rpm.
    The custom V/Hz curve settings on the VFD calls for a minimum minimum frequency and voltage values. I assume that is not a straight linear curve down to 0 volts.
    Can you suggest an appropriate minimum voltage and frequency.
    My minimum required spindle speed is 500rpm so about 17hz. which suggests 12.5 volts. Should this be tweaked a bit higher?
    Up to this point I have been very leery of screwing up my spindle. I have not yet tried anything but changing between v/hz and sensorless at the two output speeds at 50 and 100hz based on the 200v 400hz base settings tried above.

    Thanks immensely for the information.

    Erik

  2. #2
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    I would use Sensorless Vector mode, gives you constant torque at low speed. Setting the base frequency at 50Hz is fine, set the voltage for 200V, set the amps per the motor nameplate. At 50 Hz I would expect a 4 pole motor to run at ~1500 RPM, and at 60 Hz at ~1800 RPM.

    Once you have set the the above parameters, then run the Auto Tune. Don't worry about the volts and amps going to the motor, the VFD will take care of that. You will notice that the amp draw on the motor will go up as the speed is reduced, this is normal below the base frequency. At about 600 RPM mine would run at about 70% load when idling, then drop down as the speed was increased.

    I had a similar setup on my lathe with a GS3 drive and a very similar Fanuc spindle motor (1500/6000, 200V). Worked just fine for a few years until I installed the servo spindle motor which is running parts as I type this. I have a similar setup on my mill and it has been running fine for years.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Thanks for the reply Jim. I am with you on what you replied but..... No matter what I try for parameters, the only setting that seems to drive the motor smoothly is selecting 400hz for base frequency. I agree that it should be a 50hz base freq since it runs at exactly 1500 rpm with 50hz selected.
    If I try to run it with 50hz base freq selected the motor will not spin but grumbles (growly noise) and hunts back and forth.

  4. #4
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by gernoff View Post
    I have a Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 spindle I am attempting to drive with a Durapulse GS3 VFD. The spindle motor is 4 pole and not permanent magnet. The data plate as well as online specs say nothing about the base frequency of the drive but it is listed as 200volts with speed rated at 1500/8000. When trying to run the spindle with 50hz or 60hz base frequency I cannot get it to spin properly so......... I tried 400hz base frequency which is the only other option with the GS3 drive.
    When running at the 400hz 200volt settings at an output freq of 50hz the spindle rotates at 1500rpm with a no load current draw of 3amps and the drive is outputting 25volts.
    @100hz the applied voltage is 50.6 and the current is 3.5A.
    All the above values are when running Sensorless Vector mode. When running in V/hz mode the values are a bit higher.

    I assume I should be running 266.66hz at 8000 rpm.
    Would I be safe in setting up a custom V/hz based on 266.66hz @8000rpm and 200volts?
    Assuming the above is correct that'd be about .75volts per hertz so I should be outputting more like 27.5volts at 1500rpm.
    The custom V/Hz curve settings on the VFD calls for a minimum minimum frequency and voltage values. I assume that is not a straight linear curve down to 0 volts.
    Can you suggest an appropriate minimum voltage and frequency.
    My minimum required spindle speed is 500rpm so about 17hz. which suggests 12.5 volts. Should this be tweaked a bit higher?
    Up to this point I have been very leery of screwing up my spindle. I have not yet tried anything but changing between v/hz and sensorless at the two output speeds at 50 and 100hz based on the 200v 400hz base settings tried above.

    Thanks immensely for the information.

    Erik
    Thats 3A per phase, if you are reading this from the drive readout, how are you measuring the output volts, if from the Drive readout then no problem, if you use a regular meter then you will get a false reading, unless you have a meter that is suitable to be used with a VFD Drive output

    The Base Frequency needs to be set at the Max Rated Motor Frequency 267Hz

    You can't use 400Hz as the Base Frequency, this could damage your motor

    Setting it for 500RPM should be fine

    If you use the encoder, you can have full vector control if your drive can do this

    Vector mode will give you a much smoother running motor
    Mactec54

  5. #5
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    First I would set Factory Defaults on the drive. P9.08 = 99

    Then this is the way I would set it up. This should get it turning.

    P0.00 = 200 Volts
    P0.01 = 39 Amps
    P0.02 = 50 Hz
    P0.03 = 1500 RPM
    P0.04 = 8000 RPM

    Test run

    Then set Sensorless Vector

    P2.10 = 02

    Then run Auto Tune, see user manual for a complete description.
    P0.05 = 1
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  6. #6
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Reading volts and amps per phase from the VFD. Unfortunately the VFD only allows 50, 60 or 400hz base frequency and if I select 50hz the motor will not spin up, it bumps and growls and the amperage begins climbing. I think part of the problem is that the Durapulse GS3 does not know how to deal with a 4 pole motor? There is no option to set the number of poles. So far I have successfully run the motor (using 400hz base frequency ) selecting 50hz output speed and getting 1500rpm (as expected for a 50hz. base freq motor) and setting 100hz gives 3000rpm with current draw of 3 and about 3.5a.

  7. #7
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    First I would set Factory Defaults on the drive. P9.08 = 99

    Then this is the way I would set it up. This should get it turning.

    P0.00 = 200 Volts
    P0.01 = 39 Amps
    P0.02 = 50 Hz
    P0.03 = 1500 RPM
    P0.04 = 8000 RPM

    Test run

    Then set Sensorless Vector

    P2.10 = 02

    Then run Auto Tune, see user manual for a complete description.
    P0.05 = 1
    All the motor specs must be set correct

    No the motor has nothing to do with 50Hz the Parameters must be set at the Motor max Hz
    Mactec54

  8. #8
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    All the motor specs must be set correct

    No the motor has nothing to do with 50Hz the Parameters must be set at the Motor max Hz

    On the GS3 the Max Hz is calculated from the Base Hz, Base RPM, and Max RPM. You don't set a Max Hz
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

  9. #9
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by gernoff View Post
    Thanks for the reply Jim. I am with you on what you replied but..... No matter what I try for parameters, the only setting that seems to drive the motor smoothly is selecting 400hz for base frequency. I agree that it should be a 50hz base freq since it runs at exactly 1500 rpm with 50hz selected.
    If I try to run it with 50hz base freq selected the motor will not spin but grumbles (growly noise) and hunts back and forth.
    You will damage the motor if you try and run it with 50Hz as the Base Frequency
    IF you have the electric fan make sure it is working or the motor will get hot very quick

    No, the Base Frequency is the 266.66Hz or 267Hz, 50Hz has nothing to do with your motor, if you can only choose 400Hz and can't set it to the 267Hz then you have to use the 400Hz setting and set these other Parameters before you do any Auto Tune

    P2.04 Mid-Point Frequency

    P2.05 Mid-Point Voltage

    P2.06= Min-Output Frequency

    P2.07= Min-Output Voltage

    P2.08= Carrier Frequency (1-5Hp=15)

    P6.15=267

    P6.16= Minimum Speed Frequency
    Mactec54

  10. #10
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    The safe Minimum speed maybe 1500RPM for this motor, so watch the motor temperature when running it slow
    Mactec54

  11. #11
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    The base speed for this motor is 1500 RPM. The minimum speed is about 10 RPM, effectively 0. This motor is virtually identical to my Fanuc.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Yes Jim;

    Essentially identical. Even the same bearing specs.

    Here is my plan for the custom V/Hz curve:

    P2.04 Mid-Point Frequency 267hz

    P2.05 Mid-Point Voltage 200v

    P2.06= Min-Output Frequency 17hz

    P2.07= Min-Output Voltage 12.5

    P2.08= Carrier Frequency (1-5Hp=15)

    P6.15=200hz (only need 6000 rpm)

    P6.16= Minimum Speed Frequency

    I assume I'll have to run V/Hz to be able to utilized the custom V/Hz curve.




  13. #13
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by gernoff View Post
    Yes Jim;

    Essentially identical. Even the same bearing specs.

    Here is my plan for the custom V/Hz curve:

    P2.04 Mid-Point Frequency 267hz

    P2.05 Mid-Point Voltage 200v

    P2.06= Min-Output Frequency 17hz

    P2.07= Min-Output Voltage 12.5

    P2.08= Carrier Frequency (1-5Hp=15)

    P6.15=200hz (only need 6000 rpm)

    P6.16= Minimum Speed Frequency

    I assume I'll have to run V/Hz to be able to utilized the custom V/Hz curve.



    Mid point can not be 267 and Mid point voltage can not be 200v these can only be the max

    Your mid point Frequency would be 125Hz and 93.6V

    You don't have a choice you must you the Name Plate motor spec's you can't use other settings because you don't want to go that fast

    No, you should be using the Vector control you still have to do these settings.
    Mactec54

  14. #14
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    The base speed for this motor is 1500 RPM. The minimum speed is about 10 RPM, effectively 0. This motor is virtually identical to my Fanuc.

    Jim I have a stock of these motors from 3Hp to 12Hp New, it would help if you have a real understanding how they work instead of pretending to know, they are nothing like a Fanuc motor , any motor could have similar specs, does not make them the same
    Mactec54

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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    On the GS3 the Max Hz is calculated from the Base Hz, Base RPM, and Max RPM. You don't set a Max Hz
    Enough of your Bs Jim Base Frequency in all VFD Drive is the Max rated Frequency of the Motor, that is why his motor won't run when he uses 50Hz it will damage the motor if he tries it enough times
    Mactec54

  16. #16
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Enough of your Bs Jim Base Frequency in all VFD Drive is the Max rated Frequency of the Motor, that is why his motor won't run when he uses 50Hz it will damage the motor if he tries it enough times
    Read the GS3 manual
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA

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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Cannot do it that way and still be able to specify that the motor should be at 266.66hz at 200v. So with a DuraPulse (see attached) you use the midpoint settings to force the 266hz and 200volts and get the correct v/hz ratio.

  18. #18
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Read the GS3 manual
    Educate and understand yourself on what the manual is telling you
    Mactec54

  19. #19
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by gernoff View Post
    Cannot do it that way and still be able to specify that the motor should be at 266.66hz at 200v. So with a DuraPulse (see attached) you use the midpoint settings to force the 266hz and 200volts and get the correct v/hz ratio.
    You are looking at a 50/60Hz standard AC 3Ph motor profile, everything changes when you move to a High Frequency motor 267Hz the profile has to match this frequency
    Mactec54

  20. #20
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    Re: Yaskawa UAASKA-06CA1 and Durapulse GS3 VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by gernoff View Post
    Cannot do it that way and still be able to specify that the motor should be at 266.66hz at 200v. So with a DuraPulse (see attached) you use the midpoint settings to force the 266hz and 200volts and get the correct v/hz ratio.
    See how this works for you, there are 3 profiles you can choose, try them all and see which one suits you best
    Mactec54

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