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Vertical Mill, Lathe Project Log > Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    17

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Hello Thomas

    I just gunk same machine, chimps and dirt everywhere ...
    The previous owner knew everything except his machine cleaning and maintenance.

    Now I have a big problem with the machine to move, I have damaged the tacho plug of the servo motor X axis. (with the pins of the truck)
    All wires are pulled loose from the connector and now I do not know what color the wires which should be welded.

    I think it's a 6 or 7 wires, black, gray, etc. (it is not the encoder!) On a connector male placed correctly with 4 screws.

    Can you see what is the correct connection is.

    Thanks in advance,

    I will post a picture for clarification.

    Greetings
    FredMazak

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    A picture will help. Problem is that on my tacho wiring setup it was 3 pairs of shielded wires. Each pair has a red and white wire so there are 3 red and 3 white wires total (essentially the same way the resolver was wired pictured above) so knowing which wire goes where is not possible simply by looking at the colors. There is a 7th wire (blue) which connects the wire shielding to the case of the tachogenerator. Is each of your wires labelled or are they all just different colors? Also take a picture of the sticker on the tachogenerator to make sure we have the same units that way the information that I'll give you is right for your situation.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    17

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    ORIGINAL MAZAK MAZATROL M2.

    ARE THERE DIFFERENT TYPES?


    Will look at the servo motor> with brushes Mitsibischi / under technical telephone helpline Mazak is the tachometer that measures and controls the speed ..


    grtz
    pdf

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Unfortunately the Mazak wiring diagrams did not include the internal connections between the controller and the servo amps. Luckily I found this thread...77549 Mitsubishi TRA41 Servo Drives Interface Help Please
    This worked perfectly for my TRA31 servo amps. I do have to mention that there is a typo in the spreadsheet. PX GD is correctly labeled as Tac GND feedback signal. This is the ground to the tachogenerator. PX* is incorrectly labeled as Tac GND feedback Signal. This is actually the Tac feedback signal and this is where the feedback from the tac is connected to.

    The SV On input from each amplifier is wired to a 24v relay. When the relay is energized it pulls the inputs to GND and turns on the servo amps. The relay is energized by the EStop signal. When no E-Stop buttons are pushed then the E-Stop signal is high at 24v thus energizing the relay. When an E-Stop button is pushed the circuit opens and the servo amps shut down.

    I originally planned on connecting the NC Ready inputs from all three amplifiers to one of the 12v relays and switching it on using the watchdog relay driver on the Kanalog board. I instead wired each axis to its own relay driver. This works because the relay drivers pull down to GND when activated and that is what the NC Ready inputs need. This allows me to switch on each amplifier individually. This makes things a lot easier especially during the initial setup. When the analog input on the amplifier is left floating the servo tends to drift as 0v doesn't perfectly correspond to 0 speed on the servo. When disabling a servo for a particular axis in Kmotion the axis will begin to drift because the loop is no longer closed and the analog output is set at 0v. By connecting each amplifier's NC Ready input to its own relay driver this allows me to fully disable the axis so that it no longer moves. This also allows me to turn on each servo amp individually for tuning purposes rather than having all three on at the same time.

    Even though there are several ground connections to the amplifier they are all ultimately connected to each other either on the amplifier side or on the controller side so you need not worry about having isolated grounds or power supplies. Also, by having a common ground allows you to use the relay drivers on the Kanalog to switch the NC Ready inputs.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    5

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    can you give me how you wiring kflop- k analog , now I am retrofit Mazak m4. I need to use old spindle and drive TRA41 and motor. I need some advice how to wiring them

    Thank

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    76

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Thomas, I have a VQC 15/40 spindle that I want to use in a CNC mill I'm building. I have the drawbar for it but not the pull stud gripper assembly. Would it be possible for you to take a few photos of it? I would really appreciate it.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    112

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    How is the retrofit ? No i have the same story , one day over a action i sow a mazak 20/40 and i got it . It will arive next week . If its working state i will just clean it and paint some of the parts . If not i will retrofit it with EMC2.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Sorry for being MIA. I'm on the home stretch with finishing the project. I have painted all the panels and the machine and will be reassembling the machine soon. A lot has happened since the last post and will update you guys in the next day or so (Hopefully!).

    Petruscad: I had to rebuild the spindle due to bad bearings so I had the whole thing apart but it is all assembled now. Luckily I acquired a spindle from a different VQC 15/40 for spare parts and have a draw bar on hand to photograph. I'll put it together tomorrow and take some photos.

    Aventtini888: Retrofit is good. The kflop is a very nice controller and am pretty happy with it so far. I really like how you have very few limitations with the controller, so long as you know a little C programming. I went the same route as you as taking it apart and painting all the panels but in retrospect it probably was too much trouble than it's worth in my opinion unless you have all the equipment and the setup to do this sort of painting. Retrofitting is nice if you plan on doing complex 3D work as programs can get very large as the older controllers have tiny memory capacity.

    Let me know if you guys need any other info. I'll try to get back to you a little quicker this time. Promise!

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    76

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Zamirski View Post
    Petruscad: I had to rebuild the spindle due to bad bearings so I had the whole thing apart but it is all assembled now. Luckily I acquired a spindle from a different VQC 15/40 for spare parts and have a draw bar on hand to photograph. I'll put it together tomorrow and take some photos.
    Thank you very much man, this will really help me!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Pictured below is the spindle drawbar without the belleville spring washers installed. The belleville washers it requires are 20.4mm x 40mm x 2.5mm, 24 sets (48 total). The washers are doubled up so they are stacked 2 in one direction and 2 in the other, alternating all the way up.

    Here's a place you can get the spring washers from: CDM-402010 - DISC SPRING (CDM Series) - Part Characteristics | Century Spring Corp.

    Inside the sleeve (large cylindrical part at the end of the drawbar) there are two collet fingers which grab onto the pull stud of the tool. On the opposite end is the fork bracket which is what the hydraulic piston pushes against to release the tool.

    Mazak part numbers:

    Sleeve: 24240148590 (qty 1)
    Collet: 24240148601 (not sure if this is sold as a set or individually. Need 2 of them)
    Collet Nut: 34240148611 (qty 1)
    Rod: 24240148571 (qty 1)
    Bracket: 34240148621 (qty 1)
    Socket head cap screw m6x50: A06CB060500 (qty 2)
    Belleville Spring Washer set: 34240148580
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_1245.jpg   IMG_1246.jpg   IMG_1247.jpg   IMG_1248.jpg  

    IMG_1249.jpg   IMG_1250.jpg  

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    76

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Oh, wow, this is a complicated design. I have everything except the two collet pieces and the cylindrical sleeve in which they go. I was thinking to machine these pieces but given how compex (i.e. fancy!) they are I'm not sure I'll be able to. Unless I can buy them used from somewhere or order them from Mazak (probably expensive) I think I'm gonna come up with my own, simpler, more conventional design and machine that. It's gonna be a lot of fun...

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    178

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    It certainly doesn't look too complicated to lengthen that chain, and add some more tool clamps and have a 25 or 30 tool changer You'ld have to figure out how to count them, tho. I'd use an encoder.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by petruscad View Post
    Oh, wow, this is a complicated design. I have everything except the two collet pieces and the cylindrical sleeve in which they go. I was thinking to machine these pieces but given how compex (i.e. fancy!) they are I'm not sure I'll be able to. Unless I can buy them used from somewhere or order them from Mazak (probably expensive) I think I'm gonna come up with my own, simpler, more conventional design and machine that. It's gonna be a lot of fun...
    The sleeve is precision ground on multiple surfaces so it would be tricky to make. This part is the reason I needed to buy another spindle. If you look carefully on the 5th picture you can see a portion of the outer wall has broken off where the finger rests up against. In fact I'll just post a picture where you can clearly see it. I suspect that the previous owner crashed the tool into something solid and broke the sleeve open. I called up Mazak to quote the part and it was close to a grand to replace so I found an entire spindle assembly on ebay for half of that price. Not sure how much the fingers cost but I can only imagine a lot!

    If you're going to go ahead and make up your own design I would suggest going with a ball type pull stud gripper rather than the finger type. They are a lot simpler to make. Also make sure to harden the components as a lot of stresses occur in this area. Last thing you want is to have a tool flying out while the machine is running. Can easily kill someone.

    If you'd like I can get you accurate measurements of the external dimensions of the sleeve to get you started in the right direction.Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    20

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Hi Thomas,

    Awesome build thread. Would love to see the mill with fresh paint, please keep the pics coming
    Been looking at KFLOP, if it ends up working well for a machine this size, that would be a big plus for the controller

    Cheers
    Frank

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Mill has been up and running for a few months now but I've been way too busy to post all of the things I've wanted to but I'll post some quick photos of the machine mostly assembled as well as a couple of videos of it in action.

    Machine getting ready to be painted:
    Attachment 282322
    Attachment 282324
    Attachment 282326

    Machine Painted and assembled:
    Attachment 282328
    Attachment 282330
    Attachment 282332
    Attachment 282334
    Attachment 282336
    Attachment 282338
    Attachment 282340
    Attachment 282342
    Attachment 282344
    Attachment 282346
    Attachment 282348

    The white paint on the inside is Imron. Really good chemical resistance and easy to clean. The matte black and grey exterior paint is car paint from Eastwood (rat rod black and rat rod grey). It's a single stage, two part urethane paint which is also chemical resistant and really durable. Because it's not glossy like the Imron paint it is slightly harder to clean but if sprayed correctly it's actually pretty easy to clean. I also used some Rustoleum appliance enamel for a few small parts for the interior as I ran out of Imron. The color matched pretty well. The paint seems to be holding up ok but has greatly discolored to a cream color, probably caused by the coolant. Not a big deal to me as long as it protects the metal from the coolant. I still have to implement some sort of control interface. I'm currently just using the software GUI, the MPG and axis selector switch.

    Here's a video of the machine cutting some soft jaws:
    https://youtu.be/P6WW6UIwKJU

    Here's a video of the machine performing a pallet change:
    https://youtu.be/LSKeqhQpkdQ

    Here's a video of a tool change test while all the covers were still off. Gives you a better look at how the tool changer works:
    https://youtu.be/RxYmajHgIuc

    Here's a video of a rigid tap test:
    https://youtu.be/yktBL1mhZFY

    If you're interested I did a write up on how I implemented the rigid tap in kmotioncnc/kflop here: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/dynomo...ml#post1688960

    I left out a lot of details, the biggest being the spindle rebuild. I had to replace the bearings and then I turned the taper to bring it back into concentricity. Maybe I'll put together a video sometime and post it here.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    161

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Dude that is ****in incredible, excuse my language but I am just blown away at what you have accomplished. Very inspiring.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    80

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Very nice work! Thats a rather unusual mill. It must be very ridged but the work area looks rather small. How do you find the Kmotion interface? Im considering using it with my build

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6028

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Wow, we used to have one of those without the pallet changer. Not sure where it went, but it still looked brand new. Probably didn't have 1000 cutting hours.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydyl View Post
    Dude that is ****in incredible, excuse my language but I am just blown away at what you have accomplished. Very inspiring.
    Thanks Chevy! Glad you like the machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feist92 View Post
    Very nice work! Thats a rather unusual mill. It must be very ridged but the work area looks rather small. How do you find the Kmotion interface? Im considering using it with my build
    Thanks Feist. It is an unusual layout for a mill. It has a rigid design but the big downside is you can't have anything overhanging the table because it'll slam into one of the columns that support the bridge. This sort of limits to what you can put on the table. Typically you can put on a bunch of vises on a ram type mill and not worry about part of them hanging off the edge of the table. Here you have to stay conscious of that.

    The Kmotioncnc interface isn't the prettiest thing out there but it definitely gets the job done. It's stable, fast and the trajectory planner is pretty good, better than mach's. If you know a little C programming then you won't have any trouble getting your machine to do what you want it to do. Definitely recommend it if you're looking to retrofit on a budget and you have some time to tinker around.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    45

    Re: Mazak VQC 15/40 Retrofit

    A member asked for instructions on how to tear down the spindle and get to the drawbar so I figured I'd make a post here that way if anyone else needs to know how it's done they can benefit from it as well.

    Step 1: Remove the lower spindle cover.

    This cover is on two hinges on the side closest to the operator. On the far side of the spindle there are two screws which hold the cover shut. Unscrewing these screws allows the cover to swing open. On the bottom of that cover there are two screws which hold the coolant manifold in place. Unscrew those two screws to free the manifold. Unplug the wires that connect to the lamp. Now an extra set of hands will make this part easier. Have someone hold the cover, taking pressure off of the hinges. Use and thin, long object to push out the pins in the hinges. Once the pins are out the cover can be moved out of the way.

    Attachment 282528
    Attachment 282530


    Step 2: Separate the two spindle shafts.

    First you need to remove the black bracket under the hydraulic unclamping cylinder to give you enough room the get an allen wrench onto the screws that are holding the two shafts together.

    Attachment 282532


    Step 3: Remove the spindle cartridge

    First unscrew the screws holding the spindle cartridge in place. Once unscrewed the cartridge should remain in the spindle assembly by friction alone. I recommend putting some wood blocks underneath in case it just falls out but chances are it will sit in there. You will need to use 2 M10 screws to jack the spindle out little by little.

    Attachment 282534

    Keep in mind that the perimeter of the spindle cartridge is cooled with cooling oil so have an oil pan on your machine table to catch the oil that will come pouring out. Once you let all the oil drain you can continue onward with pulling the cartridge out.

    Attachment 282536
    Attachment 282538

    You can now do what you need to do to the spindle cartridge. The drawbar is easy to get to. It is held in place by the friction of an oring so all you have to do is pull on the fork to get it out.

    Attachment 282540

    If your spindle is not clamping the tool properly then it could be one of the following. The hydraulic clamping cylinder is not returning to the clamp position (towards the top). The hydraulic cylinder does not do the actual clamping. It only unclamps the tool. The belleville washer springs are what actually provide the force for clamping the tool. The washer springs could be fatigued and no longer provide the proper force so they would need to be replaced. One or both of the pull stud fingers may be broken.

    Drawbar assembly pictured below without the belleville washers installed.

    Attachment 282542
    Attachment 282544

    After unscrewing the collet finger nut the nut should slide out and then the fingers can be pulled out individually and now you have access to the belleville washer springs.

    Do all the repairs you need and then reassemble the spindle in reverse order. One thing I recommend you do when putting the spindle cartridge back in the spindle is to use a car jack to push it back into position. Also make sure that the keys on the lower spindle shaft line up with the keyways on the upper spindle shaft when you are jacking the cartridge back into place. If they are not lined up and you jack up the cartridge into the upper shaft it will shift the upper bearing or bearings (depending on if you have a 6000rpm spindle or 10000 rpm spindle) and could cause some damage.

    Hope this helps and if you have any questions feel free to ask.

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