biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

I am looking at converting a 1996 rover over to mach 3.

the machine would be used for profiling mdf and plywood sheets and the gcode would be created using aspire or similer.

As the machine would only be used to profile, I would only need one router head and no tool changer. I am hoping this will reduce the need for any custom programing to zero.

Drives on machines from this era are prob analoge this could be the stumbling block for the project and will decide if I should go and look at the machine.

Has any one converted a machine like the rover and had any success using the original drives with mach

Here's one.
I know he used a Galil card, which can control analogue drives, but not sure if he changed the drives.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai7mGOdbhns]Biesse "duzzit" conversion. New drilling cycles completed. Much better! - YouTube[/ame]

Thanks Gerry, actually I did spot that video a few weeks ago when I was considering the idea of a conversion. He has done an incredible job with that machine, espically getting so many functions to work under mach.

Im planning on a bare bones conversion, locking down the one of router heads and running it like a standard 3 axis router rather than a machining centre.

Galil cards look like they are up to the job but I wonder how these Kflop cards from Dynomotion | Motion Control Boards perform.

i chatted with him recently as ive found a biesse machine locally i might grab in the new year.

he says that its been alot of work getting all the features going. alot of scripting. but i think the basic xyz and spindle would be fairly straight forward.

the one thing that stands out on his is that the performance (acceleration) is poor compared to the original control. he mentions in one of the comments that it was overshooting if he set it too high. i dont know if thats a mach3 pulse thing, or the galil cards needing tuning on the loop.

i talked to heidenhain about the acu-rite 3500i control yesterday. they seem to think it would work well. wont be quite as cheap as a mach/galil solution, but its not too bad.

the acceleration is set lower because im running the machine off a generator!
as its running at my house with no 3 phase.
i have had the machine to 65m/ minute on x and y with same acceleration as original biesse cni control. however while this is fine for point to point machining when using the cv that mach3 offers it is way smoother for engraving and finer work if the acceleration is set a lot lower.(to be fair i never tuned the servos extremely tight as i dont like the oscilations this can cause.

i am using the original dc analogue drives.
i didnt go with kflop due to the huge number of i/o required which i couldnt get with kflop. (ive ordered a kflop for a new project as the backup and help on their forum is superb!)

im just converting another 2 biesse machines using galil rios to give me distributed i/o around the machine

Quote:

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Originally Posted by battwell

the acceleration is set lower because im running the machine off a generator!
as its running at my house with no 3 phase.
i have had the machine to 65m/ minute on x and y with same acceleration as original biesse cni control. however while this is fine for point to point machining when using the cv that mach3 offers it is way smoother for engraving and finer work if the acceleration is set a lot lower.(to be fair i never tuned the servos extremely tight as i dont like the oscilations this can cause.

i am using the original dc analogue drives.
i didnt go with kflop due to the huge number of i/o required which i couldnt get with kflop. (ive ordered a kflop for a new project as the backup and help on their forum is superb!)

im just converting another 2 biesse machines using galil rios to give me distributed i/o around the machine

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ahh, cool, thanks for that. i ended up passing on the machines id found, because i just couldnt find a space to put them. bit sad. they seem to pop up often though, so i may grab one after i move (they are ripping down the building my shop is in in a year or so for condos).

I'm reviving an old thread. We have a 2002 Rover 35L for our work CNC. I use Mach3 and CamBam at home to run my basement CNC. I love CamBam, and am trying to figure out how to write a post for our Rover. NC1000 is not easy GCode to produce unfortunately.

I had the idea of converting the machine to run off of Mach3 but I'm not sure it's worth the effort. Has anyone been successful with this?

I see mostly people converting with Mach3 these machines. I am looking at getting one and intend to convert to LinuxCNC with mesa boards controlling the servo drives.
I did one allready with a big vertical machining center and it is amazing. Mesa cards are not expensive and they work amazing.

I have my eye on a Biesse rover 23.

i think mach3 is nice and friendly. emc is more convoluted. but since the new tragectory planer has come in, its probably a pretty good choice on one of these. will do some fast 3d contouring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ihavenofish

i think mach3 is nice and friendly. emc is more convoluted..

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HOW????? WHY?????
I have to ask : have you ever seen a screenshot of LinuxCNC????
Mach is absolutely despicable as far as looks go, while Linuxcnc looks like Iceland's women .

now wondering .............have you seen Iceland's women? They are beautiful.
Then again, mach has a face only a mother can love.

linux cnc' ui looks like something half finished and barely functional. among the worst ui's ive ever seen. mach is fairly nice and full featured and easy to understand.

that doesnt mean mach is better at running the machine, just that its got a far more professional and complete UI.

You can make the UI look however you want.

I have both LinuxCNC on a large VMC and Mach3 on a large router. I'd take LinuxCNC any day and twice on sunday before Mach3.

I had a video card lock up the UI while LinuxCNC was cutting a part. Couldnt do anything with the screen,mouse and keyboard. LinuxCNC kept on cutting until the part was finished. Changed the video card and it was back up and running.

Try that with Mach3. I'd take robustness and functionality over a nice pretty UI anyday.

Just my 2 cents.

Bob

like i said, it doesnt make mach 3 'better" at its job. just more friendy. mach has some bugs that make it virtually useless to me. my main complaint on emc was it was super slow, but that should be vastly improved with the latest version.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bevins

I'd take LinuxCNC any day and twice on sunday before Mach3.

Bob

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Nicely said.

From extensive experience regarding robustness :
Mach3 => every day is a gamble, you start the computer and......you get windows errors, mach got it's period so it thinks the whole universe uses inches, but you do need mm, you save the fixture ( why the hell does it ask this on close, sometimes without changing or doing absolutely nothing????) etc etc.
LinuxCNC => if the computer hardware is O.K. you can bet your ........insert whatever here........
that it will work without a hitch, for months without ever needing to restart EVER.
The other thing that i extensively use is the ability to program anything and everything and make it work however i see fit. Running 5 phase steppers or running servo motors directly are just the start of it's capabilities.
I am done, sorry, wandering off subject a bit.
Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tommylight

Nicely said.

From extensive experience regarding robustness :
Mach3 => every day is a gamble, you start the computer and......you get windows errors, mach got it's period so it thinks the whole universe uses inches, but you do need mm, you save the fixture ( why the hell does it ask this on close, sometimes without changing or doing absolutely nothing????) etc etc.

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err. never seen a windows error on my cnc pc. never had mach change units automatically. fixture save saves the fixture in a g54 offset in the menu. i never use that feature so i suppose there may be issues, but it doesnt do "nothing"

many reasons to hate mach3, but those aint it. ive had a ton more issues on linux, like my number pad stop working, par port driver failing if you close and restart emc, etc. nothing is perfect here. everything has its own quirks. hell not even the industrial controls from fanuc etc always work flawlessly :)

note that the original biesse control is windows based, as are many new top of the line controls from fanuc, siemens and heidenhain. they do use external hardware though.

my machine has been running well on mach3- older version which ive stuck with. (galil motion card and pluging)
over 3 years now- used most days.
with the correct settings its proving to be amazing-
im lazy and use it and abuse it- adding bits i want as i want them.
machs cv settings for carving are superb.
if running flat out for cabinet work i use exact stop.
i recently rewrote my drilling scripts slightly - now i understand more about it all (my biesse was my first mach3 conversion so wasnt bad just to get it all going)
Attachment 282256

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyAp6SNzSE0

improved drill cycles- as 1 macro so each is just a single line of code.
small movement was caused by my shoddy subroutine incrementing it.
still learning- but im a 1 man hobby guy not biesse corporation with loads of head scratchers working together. biesse uk hate me...lol

battwell,

Did you get schematics for your machineÉ Biesse here in Montreal said oh, that machine is way too old. We dont have those manuals anymore. Its a 2000 machine....

no. I just traced wiring and drew my own- very simple
Leave all original wiring intact and piggy back to it

Did you get schematics for your machineÉ Biesse here in Montreal said oh, that machine is way too old. We dont have those manuals anymore. Its a 2000 machine....[/QUOTE]

Hi everyone. Can anyone tell me if it's possible to change out XNC controller on a Biesse rover 346 and make it run on another software?
The reason I ask is I have this Biesse rover from1996 but the keyboard on the control panel many of the buttons stopped working like and old TV remote and in my case the start stop reset buttons don't work so I can't start the PLC and Biesse want 5000$ for a new keyboard
Can anyone referring me to someone who might sell my a different options to get my old rover running again?
I have seen a YouTube video where they run Mach 3 but I don't really know if its possible to bypass CNI control and only use the server packs and Inverter together with for instance mach3
Or if someone have a secondhand keyboard for an XNC controller that would do the trick to...Attachment 284132Attachment 284132

anything is possible :)

but its alot of work. for mach3 (or linuxcnc) to talk to the drives and air system and other parts, you need to buy additional cards. they can run from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars.

the 321 on youtube (battwell's) is probably the best example, and hes here, so he can offer some insights into where the problems are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ihavenofish

anything is possible :)

but its alot of work. for mach3 (or linuxcnc) to talk to the drives and air system and other parts, you need to buy additional cards. they can run from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars.

the 321 on youtube (battwell's) is probably the best example, and hes here, so he can offer some insights into where the problems are.

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Not true.

I got a Rover 346 with the intention on changing out the control. When I started three weeks later I cut my first job. Cost is about 1000.00 for motion control and IO boards. Machine is running LinuxCNC and it is working fine. I am working on the ATC now. So it is not really a huge deal to change out the controller.

The easiest part of the conversion was talking to the servo drives +-10V and the inverter for the spindles 0-10V.

Piece of Cake!!!!

This is an old thread but in the end I purchased a Thermwood C53 and its great. It still runs no problem with modern cam programs. The only bug bear is the lack of file transfer other than a 1.4mb floppy disk. I sometime break the file into multiple programs for more complicated parts but a big machine like this is usually just profiling and it works great with small files. Back in 2012 there were still plenty of options if you did want to convert to mach 3 but today there are far more and I would not be scared of jumping in and converting. I think these big old machines can be a good buy if you get one that hasn't been worked to death. Lots of options for hacking.

Hi all,
I have just bought a Rover 322, running on what I assume is the original controls. It all works well and has spent most of its life doing kitchen benchtops, flatpack wardrobes, etc.

I am interested in cutting more complex profiles, which brings to mind two possible limitations:
1) I want to program the artwork on my desktop PC and then transfer to the machine (which at this stage would be using a non-FAT floppy disk)
2) Possible memory limitations of the machine for complex programs?

Apart from that it is a horrible old interface.

So I am considering replacing the control. From this thread and others it seems like Mach 3 or LinuxCNC are options. However it would be really helpful if somebody could give me a basic overview of what is likely to be required.

i.e.
1) Obtain old PC, install Linux and LinuxCNC
2) Purchase Mesa cards???
3) ...?
4) After that is it just a matter of configuring things or do I literally need to reprogram every axis and function?

I am mainly after getting the router(s) going. The drilling functions would be a bonus but not critical.

I am an electronic engineer by qualification and PLC programmer for employment but new to CNC. Some Linux experience but prefer not to be hacking kernels into submission for months on end.

It is also not clear to me where the "memory limitations" lie? Is the control all from the onboard PC or is there another level of electronics (obviously beyond all the contactors and servos). The machine is mechanically in good condition, so will I ever be able to effectively make a modern machine of it, or will it still have limitations?

Any and all advice is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Anton

Quote:

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Originally Posted by olafnz

Hi all,
I have just bought a Rover 322, running on what I assume is the original controls. It all works well and has spent most of its life doing kitchen benchtops, flatpack wardrobes, etc.

I am interested in cutting more complex profiles, which brings to mind two possible limitations:
1) I want to program the artwork on my desktop PC and then transfer to the machine (which at this stage would be using a non-FAT floppy disk)
2) Possible memory limitations of the machine for complex programs?

Apart from that it is a horrible old interface.

So I am considering replacing the control. From this thread and others it seems like Mach 3 or LinuxCNC are options. However it would be really helpful if somebody could give me a basic overview of what is likely to be required.

i.e.
1) Obtain old PC, install Linux and LinuxCNC
2) Purchase Mesa cards???
3) ...?
4) After that is it just a matter of configuring things or do I literally need to reprogram every axis and function?

I am mainly after getting the router(s) going. The drilling functions would be a bonus but not critical.

I am an electronic engineer by qualification and PLC programmer for employment but new to CNC. Some Linux experience but prefer not to be hacking kernels into submission for months on end.

It is also not clear to me where the "memory limitations" lie? Is the control all from the onboard PC or is there another level of electronics (obviously beyond all the contactors and servos). The machine is mechanically in good condition, so will I ever be able to effectively make a modern machine of it, or will it still have limitations?

Any and all advice is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Anton

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Hi olanfz,

I only work with Linuxcnc so I cannot answer about any other control, so I will stick with LinuxCNC. You will have to make a decision on what you want to use.
I can give you these tips on Biesse machines, as I have done a few. My latest one was a BS_346 and it is completed except the ATC which I am working on now. Dont have alot time to put on it but never the less...

Biesse has a startup logic system which requires you to understand it completely soi you can tie into it with the controller. Ususally +-10V analog velocity control drives.
Encoders ususally are quadtrature so it is easily adapteded to mesa boards. Other than that theret is a bunch of inputs and outputs. IT is not as daunting as it wouold seem. I did mine in about three weeks, so it is possible.
IF you choose to go with LinuxCNC here is a list of mesa cards you would need:

One thing that is almost a show-stopper is the electric plant manual.If you have this you are home free. If not then you have alot of work figuring out all the logic Bisees has put into these machines.


Mesa Electronics US I have no affiliation with this company. They just do it right......

5i25-7i77 to go kit,
7i74 RS-422 distribution card
7i70 48 input card
2 X 7i71 48 output card
7i84 32 in 16 out If you want a push button hardware control panel.
5 volt power supply

LinuxCNC runs great but can be a bear to configure if you have never done so.

Shameless Plug

There is a kit that is being worked on and will be sold for Biesse machines. These will include:
Hard drive with linux installed and configured for your specific machine: Would need the Electric plant manual,
A set of wiring diagrams that show you how to rewire and upgrade your machine. You will need to provide the Electric plant manual.
Did I mention you need the electric plant manual?
It will also include the required motion control cards along with the in/out cards required for your machine.
A forum is being setup discussing Biesse machine and you get tech help in the forum.

I dont think I am allowed to advertise the name of the forum here, PM me if you want and we can discuss.

/Shameless Plug

That is an option, not required but it takes the guess work out of it if you have never done it.

All in all it is a fun project, and I hope you enjoy it what ever you decide.

Hi Bevins,
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the input - although I have software and electronics skills I am new to CNC and these machines, so really have no idea where to start.

By "3 weeks" are you talking 120 hours, or just in your spare time?

I will see if I can get the wiring diagrams.

I will certainly contact you later down the track. At the moment the machine will be in storage for 2-3 months, then I will go from there. It's just good to know that these things are at least a possibility if the existing control gets too limiting.

Is the forum you mention on this site or another one? I tried to setup a login on the linuxcnc forum and for some reason it has not emailed me yet. I assume it is still active.

Thanks,
Anton

Hello KPQ ...i have face the same problem as you ... tired about the button this is what i have do ... remove the button to realise under its fully dirty ... clean with alcool and replace ... and now work very well... i don't say this gonna work for you but just try anyway ...already not working so you cannot broke more !:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by olafnz

Hi Bevins,
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the input - although I have software and electronics skills I am new to CNC and these machines, so really have no idea where to start.

By "3 weeks" are you talking 120 hours, or just in your spare time?

I will see if I can get the wiring diagrams.

I will certainly contact you later down the track. At the moment the machine will be in storage for 2-3 months, then I will go from there. It's just good to know that these things are at least a possibility if the existing control gets too limiting.

Is the forum you mention on this site or another one? I tried to setup a login on the linuxcnc forum and for some reason it has not emailed me yet. I assume it is still active.

Thanks,
Anton

---

olanfnz,

3 weeks working 10-12 hours per day.
The control if you have rt480 is useless these days. If you only want to do squares holes and circles it may do.
But if you want to do major detailed 3d or signs, then it wont work cause the limiting factor is how many lines it can read into memory, and I think thats around 500. My cam I use to do anything more than a box is about 1000 lines and I have some programs that go to over 100,000 lines.
There are the few few that can break down their gcode and feed it chunks, but to me thats a waste of time.


The forum has not gone live yet.
We are waiting to get some kits finished for a few different machines. re: rover 30, rover 346 etc....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by battwell

the acceleration is set lower because im running the machine off a generator!
as its running at my house with no 3 phase.
i have had the machine to 65m/ minute on x and y with same acceleration as original biesse cni control. however while this is fine for point to point machining when using the cv that mach3 offers it is way smoother for engraving and finer work if the acceleration is set a lot lower.(to be fair i never tuned the servos extremely tight as i dont like the oscilations this can cause.

i am using the original dc analogue drives.
i didnt go with kflop due to the huge number of i/o required which i couldnt get with kflop. (ive ordered a kflop for a new project as the backup and help on their forum is superb!)

im just converting another 2 biesse machines using galil rios to give me distributed i/o around the machine

---

Hi there. Im looking to do a similar conversion and reyain as many features as possible. My machine is a1996 biesse 321r with 5 slot tool changer. Im hoping to purchase a gallil unit very soon.am i right in saying i need a 4040. Xzand y on 3 and spindle on foutyh. Any help would be gratly appreciated or even somewhere with more information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bevins

Hi olanfz,

I only work with Linuxcnc so I cannot answer about any other control, so I will stick with LinuxCNC. You will have to make a decision on what you want to use.
I can give you these tips on Biesse machines, as I have done a few. My latest one was a BS_346 and it is completed except the ATC which I am working on now. Dont have alot time to put on it but never the less...

Biesse has a startup logic system which requires you to understand it completely soi you can tie into it with the controller. Ususally +-10V analog velocity control drives.
Encoders ususally are quadtrature so it is easily adapteded to mesa boards. Other than that theret is a bunch of inputs and outputs. IT is not as daunting as it wouold seem. I did mine in about three weeks, so it is possible.
IF you choose to go with LinuxCNC here is a list of mesa cards you would need:

One thing that is almost a show-stopper is the electric plant manual.If you have this you are home free. If not then you have alot of work figuring out all the logic Bisees has put into these machines.


Mesa Electronics US I have no affiliation with this company. They just do it right......

5i25-7i77 to go kit,
7i74 RS-422 distribution card
7i70 48 input card
2 X 7i71 48 output card
7i84 32 in 16 out If you want a push button hardware control panel.
5 volt power supply

LinuxCNC runs great but can be a bear to configure if you have never done so.

Shameless Plug

There is a kit that is being worked on and will be sold for Biesse machines. These will include:
Hard drive with linux installed and configured for your specific machine: Would need the Electric plant manual,
A set of wiring diagrams that show you how to rewire and upgrade your machine. You will need to provide the Electric plant manual.
Did I mention you need the electric plant manual?
It will also include the required motion control cards along with the in/out cards required for your machine.
A forum is being setup discussing Biesse machine and you get tech help in the forum.

I dont think I am allowed to advertise the name of the forum here, PM me if you want and we can discuss.

/Shameless Plug

That is an option, not required but it takes the guess work out of it if you have never done it.

All in all it is a fun project, and I hope you enjoy it what ever you decide.

---

Could you send me more details. [email protected]
Cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bevins

Hi olanfz,

I only work with Linuxcnc so I cannot answer about any other control, so I will stick with LinuxCNC. You will have to make a decision on what you want to use.
I can give you these tips on Biesse machines, as I have done a few. My latest one was a BS_346 and it is completed except the ATC which I am working on now. Dont have alot time to put on it but never the less...

Biesse has a startup logic system which requires you to understand it completely soi you can tie into it with the controller. Ususally +-10V analog velocity control drives.
Encoders ususally are quadtrature so it is easily adapteded to mesa boards. Other than that theret is a bunch of inputs and outputs. IT is not as daunting as it wouold seem. I did mine in about three weeks, so it is possible.
IF you choose to go with LinuxCNC here is a list of mesa cards you would need:

One thing that is almost a show-stopper is the electric plant manual.If you have this you are home free. If not then you have alot of work figuring out all the logic Bisees has put into these machines.


Mesa Electronics US I have no affiliation with this company. They just do it right......

5i25-7i77 to go kit,
7i74 RS-422 distribution card
7i70 48 input card
2 X 7i71 48 output card
7i84 32 in 16 out If you want a push button hardware control panel.
5 volt power supply

LinuxCNC runs great but can be a bear to configure if you have never done so.

Shameless Plug

There is a kit that is being worked on and will be sold for Biesse machines. These will include:
Hard drive with linux installed and configured for your specific machine: Would need the Electric plant manual,
A set of wiring diagrams that show you how to rewire and upgrade your machine. You will need to provide the Electric plant manual.
Did I mention you need the electric plant manual?
It will also include the required motion control cards along with the in/out cards required for your machine.
A forum is being setup discussing Biesse machine and you get tech help in the forum.

I dont think I am allowed to advertise the name of the forum here, PM me if you want and we can discuss.

/Shameless Plug

That is an option, not required but it takes the guess work out of it if you have never done it.

All in all it is a fun project, and I hope you enjoy it what ever you decide.

---

Hi! Same problem here... although it's a quite old thread, can you please provide me any more information about upgrading our 1998 XNC Rover 321r to LinuxCNC? It's without ATC and I do have the powerplant manual (I've already scanned it...).

Thanks a lot!