[RoboticsMD]

Hello,

I am looking for a reliable precision laser cutter under 12,000 USD. I am NOT concerned about large working area size, high speed of cutting, or super high maximum power. (Power needs to be above or around 25W)

What I need is some good precision, accuracy, repeatability. (less than 0.0004" or 10 microns).

I am open to any suggestion of manufacturer and models.

I am considering BrightStar Laser LG3040tt with 40w and 0.0004" repeatablity.
Any reviews on this particular company and/or model?

I want something reliable. This machine will be used to cut thin plastic sheets and very thin carbon fiber.

Thank you.

[pedroman]

Speaking of the Chinese lasers only...

OK I doubt very seriously that a stepper system can reproduce anything close to .0004" repeatability. It has no feedback in the system thus your errors can never be corrected by the machine so the very best accuracy you will ever get is dependent upon the precision of the drive system and the resolution of the system.

I would bet that .005 is more real yet I doubt that any of these stepper systems can duplicate that.

Pete

[coltons customs]

i also agree with pedroman however unaware as to what exactly my machines will do repeatedly i own an epilog legend ext in the 120 watt range and an rabbitt hx 6090 as well and will be honest in saying they both are exceleent pieces of equipment however the epilog is able to produce engravings with much higher resolution at higher preciseness for instance i engraved two pieces of maple with an Aztec calender on them at 300 dpi res. at 2.5 inches by 3 inches. now if you are familiar with the calender they use dots as a numerical for the days at this scale the dots were represented as one pixel in the image i honestly thought that both machines would just blob this together however surprisingly the epilog didn't it engraved it beautifully as the rabbit blobbed it together to get the rabbit to engrave it correctly i had to go to 400 and then it took about twice as long to cut it and most of the time trying to upscale images to higher resolution only leads to distortion i am currently looking at buying another epilog
so just my 2c worth

[Neil Pritchett]

Hi, just a quick note: Servo or stepper; the precision you are looking for would likely need a temperature controlled room! Thermal expansion of the metalwork will give more error. Also, the material you process will be expanding with the energy from the laser beam. Depends on the design you want to cut if this will be an issue.
Best regards. Neil (ctrlasers.co.uk)

[gmatov]

MD,

I would doubt .0004 on ANY kind of machine you can buy or run OR program, if all you do is CNC. The best REAL machinist, with the BEST lathe, will not hit 4 tenths. Watchmakers with watchmaker's lathes and hand held tools may be able to do this.

You are not.

Here is a quote from Brightstar:

I am sorry, it is VERY long, but it does give their reason for charging three times the price for the same machine.

I think the concept of 50% less is very powerful indeed so here are some
important points.

Right now, there are many Hong Kong "trading companies" that offer
merchandise on eBay and through web sites in the US market. It's not
limited to laser engravers, it includes all kinds of graphics equipment like
large format inkjet printers, vinyl cutters, heat presses etc. and probably
extends into many other industries that I'm not aware of. For these trading
companies, it's just about moving boxes. None of these companies have any
support staff and mostly they don't even know much about the equipment they
are "selling". In fact they do not have any stock and simply pass your
order on to the manufacturer and take their profit up front. There is quite
literally no support since when you call the trading company, they refer you
to the manufacturer but most often the manufacturer won't give you support
and just refers you back to the seller. You're in a Catch 22 and left
without support. If you really want some insight on Keling Inc. look at
their other items in their eBay store - I saw a stainless steel kitchen sink
in there - honest! Do they look like a laser company? Just for fun, you
might want to get their phone number and give them a call to gauge how
helpful they might be. I'm guessing that it's a Hong Kong number (if you
can get it). Even try asking some questions by e-mail. Make the questions
the same ones you asked me - what kind of files, how much detail, etc. ask
about service etc. See if you can understand the Chinese-English (we say
Chinglish) reply that you get back (if any).

It is important to understand the Chinese economy and mindset. Right now
China is EXPLODING in terms of business and economy. With access to the
internet they have discovered that there are tons of Westerners that are
totally attracted by low prices and that these Westerners will transfer
money by non-reversable bank transfers because the low prices are very
attractive. Trading companies have sprung up because the Chinese have a
good understanding that they can sell most anything on the internet. The
trading companies make loose agreements with all kinds of manufacturers so
that they can sell merchandise and have the manufacturer drop ship it. In
China it's all about getting the money so the trading company is happy to
have something to sell (even though they don't know much about it) and the
manufacturer is happy to have somebody fishing for a sale. It's all money.
Because we have exclusive North American distribution rights with our
chinese manufacturer, I've tried to get all these other eBay and trading
companies stopped from selling equipment that looks the same into the US
market. Our manufacturer simply says "we can't control where our customers
sell equipment". We have found that in China, honesty is a flexible concept
and when money is involved everything can change.

Second very important point. You will pay the trading companies up front in
full for the merchandise. They will put it on a boat with your name and
address on the shipping papers. When it gets to the port, two things will
happen. First, the shipping company will try to figure out who your customs
broker is - don't have one? Big problem #1 - If you're lucky you'll get a
call from the shipping company (they're busy so mostly these kinds of
problems get pushed aside) asking who your broker is. Now you've quickly
gotta find a customs broker and file power of attorney forms etc. so that
they can represent you with US Customs. Next, you'll have to have the
customs broker file the Customs Entry forms (and you'll have to pay their
fees plus the duty on the incoming merchandise). When you have any product
that includes a laser you must file a form FDA2877 along with the customs
forms. This is because the FDA regulates all laser products. In order to
file the 2877 you need to have a "laser report" for the item being imported
and this needs to be evidenced by an "assention number" from the FDA. In
order to get the assention number you need to complete a 34 page form that
includes all the technical details of the machine including scientific
readings of the stray laser radiation, exact laser tube power measurements,
schematics of the safety switches etc. Basically the 34 page FDA form
usually turns out to be about 60-70 pages once all the supporting documents
are done. The big problem here is that you don't have the machine - it's in
Customs Impound - but you would need a professional testing lab to create
the report, then file it with the FDA, wait for their approval which gives
you the assention number which you need for the FDA2877 (remember that?).
When we did the testing, it took 3 months and cost over $20,000 to get
certified to import these lasers. Once the shipment hits the port, you've
got 10 days before Customs either ships the merchandise back to the shipper
(at your cost) or destroys the shipment. Since you've paid for the
equipment up front if you don't get the thing through customs then you're
out all your money. I have heard people say they've gotten stuff directly
from China but it as far as I can tell it's mostly been prior to the
requirements for the FDA2877 getting filed before customs can be cleared. I
suppose you can take a chance on importing but we had big problems trying to
get our first Chinese machines before getting certified by the FDA.

Let's suppose you can get the machine into this country. The next problem
is learning how to use it. This is not an inkjet printer with install
wizards and tech support hotlines. It's a machine tool from China with
Chinese manuals and probably little or no support. If you're an expert
laser user, you might be able to figure things out. If you're a novice,
it's going to be very very difficult. People think "it's a laser engraver,
how tough can it be?" but transfer that just a bit and sit down in the
cockpit of even a small plane - how are you going to get that thing off the
ground? It's pretty hard to underestimate the value of training and phone
support.

Next, look at the warranty that these guys are offering. 1 year on the
machine and 3 months on the laser tube. If (when)something goes wrong
you've got to try to track down the trading company or contact the
manufacturer and diagnose the problem. Is it a major electronic failure or
did you just do something in the settings and the machine is fine? How much
time and effort will you spend trying to find and correspond with the
Chinese company? If it is an electronic failure or a laser tube goes bad,
how long will it take to get the parts shipped (and through customs again)?
Compare that to our warranty - 100% of the machine including the tube for 2
years. We include all installation labor - you are responsible for mileage
from our nearest rep or service person. If you're out of an area where we
have someone, we'll be charging you a minimal mileage charge because we
accept the responsibility for having service personnel reasonably close to
you. We can even ship parts to you and walk you through the processes
necessary for replacement if this is absolutely necessary. Any way you cut
it, we support these machines 100% from the US with parts stocked here in
Calif. and in South Carolina. We also have demo machines that can be
scavenged if necessary in the odd event that something fails that we don't
have in stock.

Also, as I mentioned on the phone, when you purchase from us, we will ship
the machine to you (or our rep will bring it on install day) and one of our
tech people will show up at your door to install the machine and make sure
it is working 100%. Before it is even shipped to you we install safety
interlock switches and do a complete QC and operational check in our shop
before shipping the machine on to you. This catches and correct any defects
that were in the machine when shipped from the factory - including broken
laser tubes etc. After our tech gets the machine installed for you he will
run through all the operational steps and machine maintenance. Next the rep
will spend the rest of the day - usually at least 4-5 hours - training you
on how to use the software and working to get the best settings for the jobs
you want to start doing (in order to make $$!). By the end of the day you
will be able to get your artwork into the laser engraving software, make the
necessary machine adjustments and settings and run your jobs. After
installation, you have access to our 24/7/365 support line. Once you call
us with a problem, we'll help figure out the solution immediately so you
don't waste lots of time and money. Remember that I told you that I got
into this business from the USER side - not from the importer or
manufacturer side. For over 12 years I owned and ran a rather large
production company making laser-cut products every day. I've owned lasers
from all the major manufacturers and experienced every kind of bad customer
service. It's my goal to not repeat any of those problems with my company.
You can't make money with a machine that isn't working or if you can't get
help making the machine do what you want it to.

You may notice on our web site that we include a honeycomb table, the air
assist compressor (blows air at the point of laser cutting), the exhaust fan
and a water chiller/circulator. I'm not sure what's included in the eBay
price but I can tell you for sure you won't be getting the chiller which is
a small machine with a stainless water tank and radiator unit and digital
display that controls the cooling water for the laser tube. Some of the
Chinese machines get shipped with an aquarium pump - you supply the bucket.
Quick failure of the laser tubes are pretty common in this scenario because
if the laser tube is run without cooling water it will last about 10 minutes
before it cracks or explodes. We include the chiller ($800 cost) and we
install interlock switches so the laser will not fire unless proper water
flow is present. This is part of what allows us to provide a two year
warranty.

Our prices are not negotiable because we've set them as low as possible to
provide all the value I have explained above and to still make a profit.
Naturally, you'll have to decide if what we provide is worth $2-3,000. As
an "investor" I would want to make sure that my money would be purchasing
something that would move the business forward and provide exceptional
value. I believe that BrightStar can do just that. Please let me know if
there are other quesitons that I can answer.

Regards,


ps. Remember that if you try to bring a machine in directly, that eBay price
probably does not include shipping, customs duty, customs broker fees,
warehouse fees or land shipping to get the machine from the port of entry to
you. Even when we work in quantity, our fees run about $5-700 per machine
to cover all these hidden costs.

You definitely will not get such precision with a laser unless it is very small and very focused, and not to be meaured.

I guess that he called them a Hong Kong, instead of a Chinese Mainland, company, meant that he wasn't worried about a Chinese company, or else that the Hong Kong company made worse product.

Any body have 15 or 20 grand to spare, buy one of them US made metal tube things, HF, and see if you can make any profits?

Cheers,

George

[Laser123]

MD,


Here is a quote from Brightstar:

Second very important point. You will pay the trading companies up front in
full for the merchandise. They will put it on a boat with your name and
address on the shipping papers. When it gets to the port, two things will
happen. First, the shipping company will try to figure out who your customs
broker is - don't have one? Big problem #1 - If you're lucky you'll get a
call from the shipping company (they're busy so mostly these kinds of
problems get pushed aside) asking who your broker is. Now you've quickly
gotta find a customs broker and file power of attorney forms etc. so that
they can represent you with US Customs. Next, you'll have to have the
customs broker file the Customs Entry forms (and you'll have to pay their
fees plus the duty on the incoming merchandise). When you have any product
that includes a laser you must file a form FDA2877 along with the customs
forms. This is because the FDA regulates all laser products. In order to
file the 2877 you need to have a "laser report" for the item being imported
and this needs to be evidenced by an "assention number" from the FDA. In
order to get the assention number you need to complete a 34 page form that
includes all the technical details of the machine including scientific
readings of the stray laser radiation, exact laser tube power measurements,
schematics of the safety switches etc. Basically the 34 page FDA form
usually turns out to be about 60-70 pages once all the supporting documents
are done. The big problem here is that you don't have the machine - it's in
Customs Impound - but you would need a professional testing lab to create
the report, then file it with the FDA, wait for their approval which gives
you the assention number which you need for the FDA2877 (remember that?).
When we did the testing, it took 3 months and cost over $20,000 to get
certified to import these lasers. Once the shipment hits the port, you've
got 10 days before Customs either ships the merchandise back to the shipper
(at your cost) or destroys the shipment. Since you've paid for the
equipment up front if you don't get the thing through customs then you're
out all your money. I have heard people say they've gotten stuff directly
from China but it as far as I can tell it's mostly been prior to the
requirements for the FDA2877 getting filed before customs can be cleared. I
suppose you can take a chance on importing but we had big problems trying to get our first Chinese machines before getting certified by the FDA.
.............

Jim Olsen
BrightStar Lasers, Inc.
(909) 936-5554 personal cell (best contact 24/7)
(909) 581-4932 office


You definitely will not get such precision with a laser unless it is very small and very focused, and not to be meaured.

Any body have 15 or 20 grand to spare, buy one of them US made metal tube things, HF, and see if you can make any profits?

Cheers,

George

Hi,

Seems lot of people bought the Laser machines directly from a China manufacture and brought it in into US already. Can someone share the experiences of your importing and what documents has to be prepared for passing the US customs services. I am planning to buy a 6090 machine from Jinan. If the import process is so complicated and difficult, shouldn’t I still ask for this trouble?

Thanks

Laser123