[metalmayhem]

I appreciate you reaching out this morning by email Mike . If you can keep some in stock as you mentioned then that would be great . At the same time I understand restocking delays and all to , I just like it to be communicated to me if I'm looking at a bit of lead time . Also if there is some ongoing lead time to be expected then I'll try to adjust my minimal stock level

I get cranky , but I hope I chose my words wisely through this thread because I'm just looking for a tool source and had no intention of dragging anyone through the mud .

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
customer service is about what happens when something goes wrong....so you have the opportunity to put it right. Metalmayhem has been around the block, I'm sure
if you correct the fault he will support you with repeat sales.

Craig

[metalmayhem]

It's not about putting anything right , communication is always good though . One thing I've never been accused of is being too patient
It's just as well we talked because the website option for shipping was ups and Mike is setting it up to ship through usps as well . Usps may gain me a day or 2 on shipping time but it also saves me 40-50 bux on ups's brokerage fees . It's money that can be better spent on tools

I can definitely say that Toolhit's prices are reasonable and there are a lot of options , so I'm optimistic

[metalmayhem]

this past batch of kyocera has been an interesting bunch , not the ones from toolhit but the cutters I bought before hand which I am completely out of . I have parts I know are prone to cause breakage here and there but these have snapped on parts that are well proven to run without issue . . As mentioned I bought osg to try out and where the recent kyocera have failed they prevailed . My guess is a bad batch . OSG has always been a lesser brand in my opinion except it's been a good number of years since I last used their cutters . I like their taps and I've been using them for many years .

The kyocera are still a bit more economical even with the added shipping from the US , As long as things haven't changed with them then I'll keep using them . Otherwise I've at least found an alternative if this next batch from a new source is the same

[deadlykitten]

hy metal when you push hard, you end up notice variations, simply because you are near that 'upper limit'

not all tools / inserts are the same, there are factory lot variations, but, for example, some kyocera, on average, are still better than others, and i know this as i used to push with them and i liked their stability

sometimes, a lower quality tool may still be ok, but there are times when quality is not reliable at all, thus the quality variations may be small or big that's the trick what diferentiates a good product from a bad one : the overall variation

if variation is small, you simply lower the specs and go on, but i encountered quality so bad ( as before it worked flowless ) that it was not possible to continue; it happend on iscar and kyocera, but this does not mean that i no longer trust those brands, simply, they have better and worse products

on walter, i used to rough turning at 450m/min, and it worked, until next time, when it was a mess, but why ? to blame the material, to blame the insert ? the coolant ? the toolholder ?

hard to say, at high speeds, you are close to an area out of control, from which maybe you have to back off 10 20 30 50 % .... thus the safety zone is always in a different place / kindly

ps : did toolhit delivered your tools ? just wondering ... i don't know, hope is al fine

[metalmayhem]

yes toolhit came through for me and I'll be using them for as a source for those ballnose and possibly more . Buying from a new company in another country always leaves room for questioning but all in all it went well and I'm content . Their flexibility on the shipping is good to . Original shipping was through ups which hits me hard for brokerage , and after a couple of email exchanges Mike said he can ship through post which he did . I appreciate that kind of service

I was curious how the osg compares , and I'm putting them to the test after losing 3 kyocera over 3 days on 3 different mills . Last I used osg mills was well over 15 yrs ago . I considered them a lesser brand because back then I worked with top of the line , regardless they were ok tools .
On my own I'm not working high end equipment , only cut aluminum , and keep to a simple system . I'm interested in seeing how they last and from what I've seen so far they should stand up like the kyocera has . There are very few options with that general flute length , a 3/8 flute doesn't sound to be a huge difference from .29 or .3125 but I haven't found one that can be run past 50% of the same feed for long

People always say never use 4flt on aluminum but theres no truth to that if a person knows what they are doing . Obviously it varies situation to situation but the only melt downs I've ever had on those tools is when my coolant tank run dry and I didn't notice . 2 flt just can't handle the same amount of pressure , especially on that size of tool

It was strange with that batch , they snapped where they really shouldn't have . I've got hundreds of programs that are run regularly and those ballnose get run on every one of them . The 3/32 spends it's life pocketing and surfacing . Some pockets can have a bit of excess material that the roughers can't evacuate , which is where I've tweaked and know where to monitor . The odd tool breakage at those points don't come as a surprise , but this time around was just weird
I've been running kyocera for a good 10 yrs or so and they've always been consistent for me . Normally I can go a couple weeks before losing one and sometimes months on some machines . I think it boils down to a bad batch

[deadlykitten]

please, this 3/8, what rpm, doc, feed, you use ? and do you have a link, or product number ?

you could go the extra mile with it, by specialized holder; pls check attached

It was strange with that batch , they snapped where they really shouldn't have

who knows ? sometimes aluminium may have hard zones in it, sandy

is enough to craft the tool from lower density carbide, or rush the grinding process

my coolant tank run dry

i had some setups, where the coolant level needed to be as high as possible, thus there was inspection and completion each shift start; deep drilling, if coolant failed, also did the tool

another thing, is to have the concentration a bit higher than average, but the coolant level lower, because if it is too high, it would make bubbles and go over the edge i used this for a long setup of machining 45-50hrc; as some point i wondered if i could flip the coolant with oil, as on gangs lathes / kindly

[metalmayhem]

I use tormachs and a novakon so I can only use tts and r8 holders . The tormachs run at 10000rpm , feeds on the 3/32 run anywhere from 20-50 ipm . The novakon is 6000 rpm and runs the same programs with some change to the feeds where needed . When I said I'm not running high end I meant I'm really not running high end . Regardless I'm holding my own against competitors who are running haas at the bare minimum . Friends who I used to work with in the machining industry chuckle when they see what I do with what I have .
If my parts required a lot of hogging then I'd have gone bigger and better but these get the job done with minimal overhead

regarding the aluminum I don't doubt what you say and I've suspected it could have an effect on my process . I spent years paying a bit more for North American aluminum . Since covid I'm stuck paying premium prices for Chinese aluminum which I know from past experiences is very inconsistent . I can no longer get American aluminum , not without waiting months for an order . The difference on the asian metal was mostly noticeable on lathe jobs where getting a chip break was very difficult . Having to reprogram jobs that have run for years was quite frustrating and lost production times . This wasn't with my company but one I worked for before starting up on my own

[John-cbn]

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[metalmayhem]

I was curious how the osg compares , and I'm putting them to the test after losing 3 kyocera over 3 days on 3 different mills . Last I used osg mills was well over 15 yrs ago . I considered them a lesser brand because back then I worked with top of the line , regardless they were ok tools .

It's been a few months and I figured I'd post my findings between the osg vs sgs/kyocera . Oddly enough the osg are blowing away the sgs . I've gone through a good number of sgs but since sales are slow right now I'm consuming tools at a lesser rate . 3 Mills were set with osg almost immediately after receiving the cutters (changed after other tool broke) and 2 mills continued to run the sgs . Sgs have broken numerous times while the first round of osg are still in the machines . 2 mills running the same program had one mill lose 2 sgs cutters while the other mill with the osg still keeps going .

Seems to me the quality of kyocera has tanked . Tool breakage on the 3/32 bn has always been expected to randomly happen but not near as much as I've had this past year . I doubt the grind quality has changed which has me wondering if they have changed their blank source . Whatever it is I can't afford to lose up to 3 cutters on programs that have been run hundreds or thousands of times , it eats a chunk out of my profit and time .

The end result of this is osg costs a few more dollars but have proven to be superior , and the savings is in the long term vs the short . As far as my other tools go I'll continue to run htc which aren't the greatest but they hold their own , plus their price is reasonable