\r\n I did wonder that, but find it difficult to believe that this is the source as the part is loaded almost entirely in shear. The flat face butts up against the steel block on the z saddle and braces it further. Might be the problem and I would have to strip it again and redesign the part to be sure.\r\n
\r\n I did the mounting this way because it was easier, and did not require the removal of the head from the column - which I can\'t do without dismantling the ceiling in my garage. \r\nI think the solid mount might be possible without removing the head, having stripped it down so many times trying to fix this issue. I guess I will have a go at that at some point. \r\nNice CAD work by the way - do you have the whole model? \r\n \r\nThe high speed spindle is a Jaeger Z33. See http://www.alfredjaeger.de/en/startseite. I was lucky here, got it second hand in return for a machining job. This was a very good deal, these spindles with an appropriate controller cost twice as much as the WMD30 mill! Not much point going into crazy detail as I would never buy one new for this machine, and I doubt many other home machinists would either because of the cost. All I can say is, it will run continuously 24-7, at 60,000 RPM and needs no cooling, is almost silent at all speeds and the spindle run-out is sub-micron. You get what you pay for though, it is not cheap.\r\n
I did the mounting this way because it was easier, and did not require the removal of the head from the column - which I can\'t do without dismantling the ceiling in my garage. \r\nI think the solid mount might be possible without removing the head, having stripped it down so many times trying to fix this issue. I guess I will have a go at that at some point. \r\nNice CAD work by the way - do you have the whole model? \r\n \r\nThe high speed spindle is a Jaeger Z33. See http://www.alfredjaeger.de/en/startseite. I was lucky here, got it second hand in return for a machining job. This was a very good deal, these spindles with an appropriate controller cost twice as much as the WMD30 mill! Not much point going into crazy detail as I would never buy one new for this machine, and I doubt many other home machinists would either because of the cost. All I can say is, it will run continuously 24-7, at 60,000 RPM and needs no cooling, is almost silent at all speeds and the spindle run-out is sub-micron. You get what you pay for though, it is not cheap.
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Aren\'t you going to have trouble with the rigidity of that HS spindle mounting? With that huge over-hang, ANY slop in the Z ways or the quill will be magnified. And those little 60KRPM cutters will not be happy with any slop at all in the spindle mounting. \r\n \r\nRegards, \r\nRay L.\r\n
I did the mounting this way because it was easier, and did not require the removal of the head from the column - which I can\'t do without dismantling the ceiling in my garage.
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I assume you mean you have to dismantle the ceiling to remove the z- sadle? \r\n \r\nThe direct mounting would require you to remove the spindle and it sounds you have to dismantle the ceiling for that anyway. \r\n \r\nYes, I have to whole machine in solidworks. \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\nDavid\r\n
\r\n Wow, Didado that is sweet. If you were up for it I would love a copy of the Solidworks file for the machine. Please PM me if so and I will tell you my email. \r\nRay, you are right however I don\'t actually have much motion out-of-plane at the cutter tip, surprising as it is given my z backlash issue (about 10µm (<0.5 thousandths) of rotation about the y axis, nothing I can measure about x). The rigidity of the setup far exceeds what is required with the tiny cutters I am using, plus I only do light DOC work anyway such as PCB engraving so the cutters never go into a deep slot.\r\n
\r\n Oh! Amazing job Didado! If it is possible... I would love a copy of the Solidworks file too. \r\nI am downloading the Solidworks just now... ^^;;, it will take time to learn to use it... \r\nLongRat, thank you for your last reply. I am going to check the line count issue, btw Any idea where can i get belt drives? \r\nOh! Your high speed spindle looks like very nice, you were really lucky. \r\n \r\nI hope I will get my electronic servor set next month =) \r\n \r\nDaniel.\r\n
\r\n HPC Gears are a good UK supplier I have used before. They sell gears, belts, pulleys etc. I would suggest using 16mm wide 2.5mm pitch belts for your mill might be a good idea. \r\nhttp://www.hpcgears.com/\r\n
\r\n Hello all, \r\n \r\nDidado - hate to sound like a cracked record but if you have the modle going spare that would be great. Looks like a good job. \r\n \r\nUrm what oil is everyone using for these screws? I was recomended ISO VG32-100 but I am not sure what that is even after googleing around. I am now fully asemebled...yay! it even moves...need to make another mount and then I can do some fine tuning. \r\n \r\nA\r\n
Didado - hate to sound like a cracked record but if you have the modle going spare that would be great. Looks like a good job. \r\nA
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I will post the model in a few weeks when I\'m done building in a separate thread with pictures etc. some things I\'m building slightly different in the real world then in the model.\r\n
\r\n Screw oil? I\'m just using a bit of 3 in 1 oil. Honestly at the relatively low loads imposed by a benchtop mill with low accelerations, I doubt it matters much.\r\n
\r\n Hi longrat...It turns out I have loads of 3 in one....I minght invest in a one shot system ... but that is on the back burner for now.... \r\n \r\nIn an erilier post you mentioned that you had to put a shim in all of the bearing blocks. Do you have a guide diameter for each axis....I take it that all the shims were 1mm thick. \r\n \r\nThanks. \r\n \r\nAndy\r\n
\r\n Andy, the shims were 1mm thick on each axis, although the actual thickness isn\'t really very important. The diameter was just a little smaller than the bore size in the block, I can\'t remember what that was, maybe 28mm? Just to keep the bearing outer races apart.\r\n
\r\n Oh dear... well here is my problem...I was getting to flat sides to a cirlce....not great and decided it was the hash up x axis - so I spent two weeks time permitting sorting that axis out and now it works like a dream...except that the dreaded flat sides are still there...so it was the Y axis all along. I slowed movement right down and could see that the y was taking around a second to engage when changing direction...what could this be? The ballscrew is from chai but I sent it to a ballscrew reapir service so that they could reball the nut...they also straighened it for me. I should not be the ballscrew. I have \'fiddled\' around with the nut on the bearing block and does not seem to make a difference. \r\n \r\nHelp! \r\n \r\nAndy\r\n
Oh dear... well here is my problem...I was getting to flat sides to a cirlce....not great and decided it was the hash up x axis - so I spent two weeks time permitting sorting that axis out and now it works like a dream...except that the dreaded flat sides are still there...so it was the Y axis all along. I slowed movement right down and could see that the y was taking around a second to engage when changing direction...what could this be? The ballscrew is from chai but I sent it to a ballscrew reapir service so that they could reball the nut...they also straighened it for me. I should not be the ballscrew. I have \'fiddled\' around with the nut on the bearing block and does not seem to make a difference. \r\n \r\nHelp! \r\n \r\nAndy
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you tried messing with backlash comp? (this video is assuming you are using mach3) [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A27nOkTFYDY"]YouTube - Mach 3 Backlash Compensation[/nomedia] \r\n \r\nnot my video its from Hoss of course!\r\n
\r\n Thanks Mwood, I have used the compensation before...however I learned alot from your link. trouble is - I paid all this cash to remove backlash from the system...not let the software cope. \r\n \r\nI would like to know where its comming from...and how to stop if mechanicaly ...I know now it is the Y axis....though of all the axis it should not be there. \r\n \r\nDoes anyone else have backlash? \r\n \r\nA\r\n
\r\n Yes I have backlash, but I am happy to live with the amount. About 0.025mm in X and 0.035mm in Y. More in Z, but we\'ve covered that extensively so I won\'t carry on about that... \r\nFirst of all, you need to quantify the actual amount you have using a dial gauge. Then when you know the backlash measured at the table, transfer your gauge to the end of the ballscrew and measure the axial end-float when you reverse directions. Assuming your nut is securely clamped, the difference between the two values must be the backlash in the ball nut/screw combination. Well more or less, as long as you measure directly in-line with the screw and your gibs are correctly set. \r\nIf the screw re-fitter really removed all the backlash, then the source must be axial float in the bearing assembly. Oh, and don\'t forget to check your motor-screw coupling isn\'t introducing slop.\r\n
\r\n Thanks longrat - will investigate what you suggest. \r\n \r\nStarting with the bearing block. \r\n \r\nAlso to add to my confusion...I asked for 5mm pitch ballscrews...I have just measured these as I was having trouble calculating the steps per...the ballscrews seem to be 5.4mm!!! \r\n \r\neeek. \r\n \r\ndid I get sent the wrong thing i wonder or am I just unluky.... \r\n \r\nor have I measured incorectly? in the motor tuning section of mach 3 I am using 160 as my steps per atm....I really dont know why that value works but it does. 370 seems to send it off to near double the distance. \r\n \r\nsigh...so close yet so far. \r\n \r\nA\r\n
\r\n Others have reported on the hexagon-software/forum that these screws do not come out with the stated pitch. This isn\'t a problem if the pitch isn\'t variable per-screw. The guy that was having trouble was using a twin-screw drive system on the bridge of a gantry router, so needed the same pitch on each drive leg. That\'s a problem that Mach can\'t currently handle. \r\nIf you have set up your steps to give you the correct travel distance when you command, then it doesn\'t matter what the actual pitch is. When the screws were straightened, they didn\'t do it by stretching did they... \r\nAlso, I forget which drives you are using... if it is Geckos then don\'t forget that they are 10-microstep so you need to factor that in - or whatever the microstepping value of your drives is.\r\n
\r\n Some sucsess! \r\n \r\nI found that the nut is fine...it is the bearing block. The 20mm dia ballscrew manages to get inside the block! only by 1-2 mm but its enough. I need to make a spacer to stop the ballscrew moving into the block when it changes direction. \r\n \r\nAndy\r\n
\r\n This is how a leadsrew bearing block shoud be done if you want no backlash. \r\n \r\n5 Bears - Y axis ballscrew \r\n \r\nIt is a copy of the bearing blocks which NSK, THK etc sell.\r\n
\r\n Thanks Mark, \r\nAn excellent site 5 bears, still cant get over the price he paid for servos..I looked and over quite some time and could not find any like that for that price... \r\n \r\nThanks for hilighting this I might try making one once I have my lathe up and running. \r\n \r\nA\r\n
\r\n Comet, \r\ngenerally the machine is great. The backlash in Z is still there, but not affecting what I do. It is just annoying. I think the general consensus is that it must be in the nut-to-head coupling. Remaking a solid coupling should cure it, but that is easier said than done as the head would need to be removed and I don\'t have enough height clearance in the garage. \r\nI just made a tool height probe and that is really cool, a great addition that I should have done years ago! I\'ll get some pics up soon.\r\n
\r\n Well there is my thread on the belt drive conversion that is a massive upgrade I am sure you have seen. I would consider it essential. Generally I haven\'t done much to this machine though, other than use it a great deal for machining parts.\r\n
\r\n Sure thing. \r\nThe thread quickly turned into a motor problem solving session before I replaced the standard setup with a 3ph motor and VFD. The belt drive has 2 ratios that actually go up to a max speed of about 4000 RPM. With the VFD drive it could go a lot faster, but not without destroying the spindle bearings I fear. \r\n \r\nhttp://www.cnczone.com/hexagon-software/forums/bencht...e_5000rpm.html\r\n
\r\n I thought I would update this thread with some of the things I have done to further improve this mill. \r\nHere\'s a picture of the mill now, you can see my 3-phase motor and the belt drive conversion I did. Also notice the small plastic box on the column where I join all my limit switch connections up: \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\nOn that subject, I have now got microswitches on each end of Y, one for both limits in X and a Z+ switch. All switches are wired normally closed in series to a single Mach3 input. My intention was to use them as limits and a reference for fixed position probing, but actually they have proven to be a lot more repeatable than I expected, at least better than 0.050mm. The pic below shows the Y switch installation: \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\nI bought the Mach3 2010 screen set from Gerry (The CNC Woodworker - Mach3 2010) because I liked the modern look and lack of clutter and especially for the in-built double probing routine for tool length. This is a really nice idea where your movable reference plate is only used to set the tool to the workpiece for the first tool in the job, with all subsequent tools having their lengths set via the fixed probe that is permanently attached to the machine table. As the 30 series machine has such a large table I thought this would be a good upgrade without depriving me of much working area, and it does save a fair bit of time on each tool change. See the fixed position probe plate on a raised pillar on the nearest side of the table in the pic below. The plate is insulated from the pillar using a PEEK rod section (a very stiff engineering plastic). For my movable plate I use a precision ground ceramic cylinder with a press-fit steel cap section on the top. \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\nFinally I made a couple of tramming aids, based on a tip posted by Machine Chick. Just a couple of brackets and jacking screws for adjusting the head angle in tiny and precise increments. I definitely recommend this, it makes tramming MUCH easier. I\'m unlikely to ever want to angle the head, but if I ever do it is a simple case of unbolting the button from the casting and the head rotates as normal again. There\'s an identical one on the other side of the head too. \r\n \r\n\r\n
\r\n That\'s looking pretty sorted - I really must make some of those tramming widgets for mine, they\'ve got to be much better than whacking the head with a mallet! \r\n \r\nI really think you need to get some insulation on those limit switches though - I\'d be worried about piles of swarf or coolant giving you false activations... \r\n \r\nBTW were you wandering round the exhibition at Ally Pally on Sunday? I wasn\'t sure enough it was you to say hi...\r\n
\r\n Hi Dear Do you need any parts I can supply Weiss Products and other parts drivers and servo motors \ndo you have any question please don\'t hesitate contact with me \n \nBest Regards \n \nDavid \n \n
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\r\n Originally Posted by LongRat\r\n \r\n
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I thought I would update this thread with some of the things I have done to further improve this mill. \nHere\'s a picture of the mill now, you can see my 3-phase motor and the belt drive conversion I did. Also notice the small plastic box on the column where I join all my limit switch connections up: \n \n \n \nOn that subject, I have now got microswitches on each end of Y, one for both limits in X and a Z+ switch. All switches are wired normally closed in series to a single Mach3 input. My intention was to use them as limits and a reference for fixed position probing, but actually they have proven to be a lot more repeatable than I expected, at least better than 0.050mm. The pic below shows the Y switch installation: \n \n \n \nI bought the Mach3 2010 screen set from Gerry (The CNC Woodworker - Mach3 2010) because I liked the modern look and lack of clutter and especially for the in-built double probing routine for tool length. This is a really nice idea where your movable reference plate is only used to set the tool to the workpiece for the first tool in the job, with all subsequent tools having their lengths set via the fixed probe that is permanently attached to the machine table. As the 30 series machine has such a large table I thought this would be a good upgrade without depriving me of much working area, and it does save a fair bit of time on each tool change. See the fixed position probe plate on a raised pillar on the nearest side of the table in the pic below. The plate is insulated from the pillar using a PEEK rod section (a very stiff engineering plastic). For my movable plate I use a precision ground ceramic cylinder with a press-fit steel cap section on the top. \n \n \n \nFinally I made a couple of tramming aids, based on a tip posted by Machine Chick. Just a couple of brackets and jacking screws for adjusting the head angle in tiny and precise increments. I definitely recommend this, it makes tramming MUCH easier. I\'m unlikely to ever want to angle the head, but if I ever do it is a simple case of unbolting the button from the casting and the head rotates as normal again. There\'s an identical one on the other side of the head too. \n \n
\r\n Yes I was there. Not much of a CNC contingent being represented was there? \r\nI don\'t expect a problem with the switches, I don\'t use coolant and the air blast tends to move the swarf well off the machine. Maybe I\'ll wack a bit of silicone sealant over the soldered contacts.\r\n
Yes I was there. Not much of a CNC contingent being represented was there? \r\nI don\'t expect a problem with the switches, I don\'t use coolant and the air blast tends to move the swarf well off the machine. Maybe I\'ll wack a bit of silicone sealant over the soldered contacts.
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I thought it was you - you were the other person between the age of 9 and 67 that was there and not behind a stall \r\n \r\nI was rather disapointed to see the only CNC was a whizzy rep-rap making plastic parts that cost more than a kilo of aluminium stock! \r\n \r\nIt is a bit sad to see the same old manual machines year in and year out, Amadeal were there but they didn\'t bring any of their rather large Super-X6/7/8 CNC beast which was a shame.\r\n
I thought it was you - you were the other person between the age of 9 and 67 that was there and not behind a stall \r\n \r\nI was rather disapointed to see the only CNC was a whizzy rep-rap making plastic parts that cost more than a kilo of aluminium stock! \r\n \r\nIt is a bit sad to see the same old manual machines year in and year out, Amadeal were there but they didn\'t bring any of their rather large Super-X6/7/8 CNC beast which was a shame.
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Ha ha! You got that right! I\'m 31 years old and I still feel like a kid when I go to these shows! \r\nI was happy to see Amadeal too, but you are absolutely right - they didn\'t bring anything to differentiate themselves from Warco, Chester etc which was a bad move. I wanted to see their bigger machines too.\r\n
\r\n ! \nSorry I didn\'t see this reply. Just for the sake of clarity, yes I stuck to the original steppers and the original 39V DC power supply. In fact the whole controller set up is the same I was using back on my old X2 that I built in 2006-7. How\'s that for reliability? I can\'t imagine how many thousand hours this has run. Good old stepper motors are incredibly durable, and as for the Gecko G201 drives - performance and value I can\'t help but be impressed by.\r\n
\r\n Greggan - I have a zip of all the DXFs I used to make a load of the parts for this machine, which has been shared out many times. Happy to send you it if you PM me your email address. It\'s all 2D stuff, no 3D models or assemblies. \nTo update this long-lived thread, I\'m still using this machine and run it almost every day still. Still running the original setup including the steppers and controller which are now 14 years old. These 30-series machines, with the right mods, are truly excellent.\r\n
\r\n Thought I would add to this ancient thread with an update. \nYes, this machine is still my day-to-day machine, I use it most days still. The original controller is now 18 years old and the mill still runs the conversion parts documented here. \nI just added a new work light to the machine, I used an LED ring from an \'angel eyes\' LED conversion for BMW cars. It is the 90mm OD version. Found on Ebay for next to nothing. A 12V power supply runs it. \nThought I would add a pic of a recent 3D part on the machine, this is a bulkhead for an RC car - material is Delrin. \nAttachment 505498 \n\r\n
Thought I would add to this ancient thread with an update. \nYes, this machine is still my day-to-day machine, I use it most days still. The original controller is now 18 years old and the mill still runs the conversion parts documented here. \nI just added a new work light to the machine, I used an LED ring from an \'angel eyes\' LED conversion for BMW cars. It is the 90mm OD version. Found on Ebay for next to nothing. A 12V power supply runs it. \nThought I would add a pic of a recent 3D part on the machine, this is a bulkhead for an RC car - material is Delrin. \n \n
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And i\'m still planning to upgrade mine to cnc one day :-)\r\n
Well there is my thread on the belt drive conversion that is a massive upgrade I am sure you have seen. I would consider it essential. Generally I haven't done much to this machine though, other than use it a great deal for machining parts.
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Originally Posted by LongRat\r\n 
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