[Skyfire]

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Mainly this parts works for what? What type of machine is used to created this structure?
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\r\nI am freshers about cnc machine to know that uses and process..
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\r\nI am working for the cnc machine shop site as a search engine optimizer. so i need to know the process and uses of cnc machine ..
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\r\nHouston cnc machine shop.

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Hi elvistalor, Thank you for your questions. These parts are the wooden molds to cast iron parts to build the machine structure. Normally we will need wood CNC routers to creat the molds but I don\'t have one. So I\'m just making them manually.
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\r\nI\'m glad to talk with you on the CNC items. I hope can help you some if I know. Hope you can enjoy your work~\r\n \r\n

[veteq]

\r\n \r\n Very nice design and cool that you will let us see how its done..!!
\r\nCould you also in time tell us a little bit about the cost of the casting and curing in the oven?\r\n \r\n

[jasminder]

\r\n \r\n hello friend,
\r\nYou are working really great. From the wooden molds, i can see that the resulting machine is going to be a piece of art.
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\r\nI looked at the cad of your machine and its looks very good. The one thing i am worrying about is the height of your Z and the size of the piller. Are you sure that you can make decent cuts in mild steel or high chrome with that machine? If i was there i would like to put some more meat on the Z pillar.
\r\na weak Z may chatter or defllect while drilling or using some big face cutters. Even strong lm guides cannot help you in such case. But if you are building it for aluminium or wood works then it is strong enough.
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\r\nBTW i am also planning to build a Mill like you having same machining area. So i will be watching your build. Good work so far and best of luck.
\r\nregards,
\r\njasminder singh\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

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hello friend,
\r\nYou are working really great. From the wooden molds, i can see that the resulting machine is going to be a piece of art.
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\r\nI looked at the cad of your machine and its looks very good. The one thing i am worrying about is the height of your Z and the size of the piller. Are you sure that you can make decent cuts in mild steel or high chrome with that machine? If i was there i would like to put some more meat on the Z pillar.
\r\na weak Z may chatter or defllect while drilling or using some big face cutters. Even strong lm guides cannot help you in such case. But if you are building it for aluminium or wood works then it is strong enough.
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\r\nBTW i am also planning to build a Mill like you having same machining area. So i will be watching your build. Good work so far and best of luck.
\r\nregards,
\r\njasminder singh

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Hi jasminder, Thank you. I think it\'s a very good question. the column design is a key point for stiffness under heavy cutting. I\'ve thought of a pillar with a wide base and thick walls, even more crossed ribs inside. But it\'s a point need many balanced thinking.
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\r\na, the small machine should only work on small workpieces with small tools. big tools can not be used on such a small machine.
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\r\nb, I think it\'s a CNC engraving and milling machine with electric spindle of upto24000RPM. so the cutting torque should be small. Another word, if I use a normal mill spindle system with 500-2000RPM, the cutting torque will be much bigger for this machine. So, for high speed engraving, the siffness should be okey.
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\r\nc, It\'s also a balanced thinking of the mold building. Strongger Z pillar not just mean more thickness, but mostly the more complex structure design. This will make the mold much more complex as well. because this is a manual work. so I would not make it so complex.
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\r\nAnd I agree, strongger linear guides has no help to the stifness.
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\r\nThanks for your attention again. I would like to see your works if you can put it in forum.
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\r\nRegards\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

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Very nice design and cool that you will let us see how its done..!!
\r\nCould you also in time tell us a little bit about the cost of the casting and curing in the oven?

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Thanks veteq. I\'m glad you like the design. And surely I can tell you the casting price. It\'s around 1.4USD/KG in China now. but it will also depend on the quality and material level.
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\r\nRegards,\r\n \r\n

[rocketflier]

\r\n \r\n If I read that right, you used a spray can? Start with a very light mist, let that tack. Then hit it with a good coat, allow to almost dry (within whatever the recoat time is on the can), then apply additional coats.
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\r\nI suck at it, not steady enough and way too impatient.
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\r\nAlso for rockets we\'ll use a high fill primer like Dupli-color auto primer or Kiltz spray stain blocker to fill the tube spirals and balsa grain.\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

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If I read that right, you used a spray can? Start with a very light mist, let that tack. Then hit it with a good coat, allow to almost dry (within whatever the recoat time is on the can), then apply additional coats.
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\r\nI suck at it, not steady enough and way too impatient.
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\r\nAlso for rockets we\'ll use a high fill primer like Dupli-color auto primer or Kiltz spray stain blocker to fill the tube spirals and balsa grain.

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Hi rocketflier. Yes. I used a spray can for the painting. I just pained too rush because of short of time. If spary thinner and perform more times, it will be better. I have done the second paint after grounding. I\'ve never contacted such higher end paints as you mentioned. I think it will be much much better than I did.
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\r\nRegards,\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n Hi guys. I finished the second painting now. The molds look more smooth now. I wanted to use the noral green pain, but the paint shop sent me two cans of shining green pain. So the molds look a little shining now.. but I really don\'t like this color. So the molds are almost ready now. I will do no more fixing works on the molds and will send to casting factory for iron parts soon. So I think it will take at least one week for samples. And I will take some picuture of casting process if possible. Thanks everyone.
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[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n And I stacked them together for a photo too. Does it look like a real machine now? That will be the machine frame as the drawing shows.
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[LUCKY13]

\r\n \r\n Skyfire good looking job your doing there, and thanks for posting your work.
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\nA picture of someone standing beside the parts would help to give some scale of the size of the machine.
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\nBeing a person who has bought some of these machines I wander why adding more casting is not used? I am sure cost becomes a problem but more ridged machines would be better for many people.
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\nWithout a finished product though its hard to judge what the machine is really made like so I may be speaking out of line here so forgive me if I am.
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\nMany of us that buy these machines always end up doing modifications to the machines to help make them stronger. But like I said, its hard to judge from a picture what I am looking at. I will be looking forward to seeing your finished castings.
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\nAnd again thank you for sharing your work with us. Its not to often we get to see first hand a build from start to finish.
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\nThank You , Jess\r\n \r\n

[rocketflier]

\r\n \r\n I\'ve been browsing by "today\'s posts" and noticed this thread today:
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\r\nhttp://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht..._iron_box.html\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

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I\'ve been browsing by "today\'s posts" and noticed this thread today:
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\r\nhttp://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht..._iron_box.html

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Hi rocketflier, thank you for sharing other guy\'s works. It\'s a so long thread for long time and seems they have done great works there. I will read when have more time. I hope can learn from each other.
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[Skyfire]

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Skyfire good looking job your doing there, and thanks for posting your work.
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\r\nA picture of someone standing beside the parts would help to give some scale of the size of the machine.
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\r\nBeing a person who has bought some of these machines I wander why adding more casting is not used? I am sure cost becomes a problem but more ridged machines would be better for many people.
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\r\nWithout a finished product though its hard to judge what the machine is really made like so I may be speaking out of line here so forgive me if I am.
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\r\nMany of us that buy these machines always end up doing modifications to the machines to help make them stronger. But like I said, its hard to judge from a picture what I am looking at. I will be looking forward to seeing your finished castings.
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\r\nAnd again thank you for sharing your work with us. Its not to often we get to see first hand a build from start to finish.
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\r\nThank You , Jess

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Hi LUCKY13, thank you for your comments. I think the stiffness is the most concern for many people now. I did have consider to add more ribs or make the pillar wider to get more stiffness. But then I thought the machine will be a desktop one and maybe should not too heavy and normally for small cuttings with small tools espeically using a high speed electric spindle. So I just give the pillar enough thickness and several ribs in side. But after all, this is the first prototype of this machine. I will test after finish including heavy cut with steel. If found having problem with the structure stifness, I will add more ribs on the column to make it strongger in formal production. If no problem, I will not add to keep the total weight. So just wait the last testing result.
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\r\nThank you again. I just want to show the manufacture process to sharing the fun and get some advises from your guys.
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\r\nRegards\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

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Hi.,,Skyfire
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\r\nthank your cute reply to me.. Mainly cnc machine is used to design a wood whatever design we need.. What programming language is used in this machine..
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\r\nHow its work.. Its any computer work on it..
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\r\nregards..
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\r\nTexas cnc machine shop..

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Hi, elvistaylor. You are welcome. I think we can learn more about CNC in the forums. Viewing threads will be much helpful to understand CNC.
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\r\nRegards,\r\n \r\n

[asuratman]

\r\n \r\n Hi skyfire.
\nHow many times this wooden mold can be used for sand casting?
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\r\n \r\n I\'m more concerned about where you depart the mold plug from the top and bottom sand box. Currently, it appears to depart on the top edge, which will create quite some flashes on these edges.
\nTo my humble experience it is better to make the departing line in the middle of the bottom flange at a vertical surface and than taper that flange to both sides up and downwards.\r\n \r\n

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I do not understand the sentence above, I have no back ground in sand casting. If you can explain it, it will be better for me and many thanks before!\r\n \r\n

[rocketflier]

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Hi skyfire.
\r\nHow many times this wooden mold can be used for sand casting?
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\r\nI do not understand the sentence above, I have no back ground in sand casting. If you can explain it, it will be better for me and many thanks before!

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Greensand casting
\r\nA sandcasting primer
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\r\nA \'parting line\' is where a mold is separated. From the links above, you set a part/plug/model on a table, put the flask(cope/drag top/bottom are the 2 halves of the box, the flask, holding the sand mold) on the table and fill with sand. Then flip that over, put the other 1/2 of the flask (drag) on and install the second 1/2 of the part/plug/model (if a 2 part plug is used). Then fill with sand. Split the halves and remove the plug. Install vents and the fill hole (spruce). Cleanup loose sand and install the cope on the drag. Pour.
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\r\nFlash is created at the parting line, where the cope/drag meet, because some metal will flow into that fine crack. You\'d probably recognize it on almost any molded plastic part.
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\r\nWhile not much of a concern in the hobby world, because you just spend a little more time to clean up, ideally you\'d want the flash at a point that is going to be machined anyway or hidden and out of the way.
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\r\nBut I didn\'t completely follow what his concern was.\r\n \r\n

[asuratman]

\r\n \r\n Hi Rocketflier,
\nThanks for explanations and links. That\'s very good readings.\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n Hi guys. Sorry for not posted in last weekend since very busy last few days. I\'ve visited several casting factories and saw some casting processes. I took some photos and will post here for some discussion soon. I\'ve not decided which one I will work with yet.
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\r\nThanks to rocketfllier for your good weblink to explain the casting issues. I took a look at the website and think very good explaination to the basic casting process. I hope my photos will give some more review of it. I will update tomorrow. too late tonight in China now.
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\r\nRegards\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n Hi, here are some photos taken in the casting factories. It\'s really a hard job there with many dirt and high temperature and bad air conditions.
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\r\nthe workroom: dark, black sand on the ground
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\r\nworkroom2: There are some cast sand box there. The molds have been removed from the sand box so they are ready for cast now.
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\r\nworkroom3:
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\r\nthe electric furnace: I remember some guy want to see this. This is a small one, can smelt about 800KG iron per time. This is much better than traditional stoves using coke with higher temperature and better temperature control. Normally it will make the castings have higher quality.
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\r\nOkey, this is the real filling in process. the key point of the whole production. But it\'s really very danger to go close to the furance at that time. So I could just took a picture from far end of the workroom. Some workers will be very close to the filling in point and the temperature there will be over 60 C degree. Really hard work there.
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[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n Here are some nice work there. some machine frame, pipe parts etc.they look very nice works-' + '-have no bubbles, sand holes on the surface, sharp nice edge and clear small words on surface. But, ofcourse, that\'s not wood molds can do. They are made of aluminium molds made by CNC. For long term and big batch production, that\'s the best choice now. And what kind of sand you want to use is another important point. traditional clay sand, the black sand you see in the workroom; or high end resin sand will bring different surface quality.
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\r\nI think I will have to chose the clay sand process because wood molds can handle this sand only.
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\r\nokey, photos now.
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\r\nhere are two pictures of the molds there. They are the aluminium ones. look good surface and accurate shaps. so they can make nice castings.
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[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n And the last photos today:
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\r\nseveral pictures of a casting iron machine fram process:
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\r\nthis one:
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\r\nfirstly make the outside sand box: this will form the outer shap of the machine frame. I didn\'t see the outer molds, so just the finished sand box.
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\r\nAnd then build the sand core: this part will occupy the big room inside the frame and form the ribs, holes inside.
\r\nthe molds for the core: they are wood ones as I made.
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\r\nthe formed sand block: this will be placed exactly into the sand box above and then only the wall\'s thickness can be filled in the melted iron.
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\r\nbefore placed into the sand box. the core block will be painted with some kind of coating material. It will make the casting surface more smooth and sand not easy to stick on the finished iron part.
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\r\nOkey. that\'s all the pictures in casting location. I can\'t see all over the process because short visit time. but things next is not hart to imagine: planced the sand block into the sand box, fill in the melted iron, cold down, remove the sand, and some grounding works etc.
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\r\nThanks every one. I think next time update cast photo will be my casted parts then. but I\'m afraid need to wait some days.\r\n \r\n

[The Blight]

\r\n \r\n Thanks for the pictures Skyfire!
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\nI will be paying close attention to this build!\r\n \r\n

[HOM3R j4y]

\r\n \r\n excellent thread this is! keep up the good work\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n Hi guys. sorry for not update for several day. I\'ve been very busy recently. I\'ve seleceted one casting factory and will sen the molds to them in 2-3days. I hope can solve the machining issues there as well. I will update pictures then.
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\r\nThanks to The Blight and HOM3R j4y. Cheers~~\r\n \r\n

[asuratman]

\r\n \r\n Hi Skyfire,
\nAny update on your project? I want to know your casting results. Thanks.\r\n \r\n

[asuratman]

\r\n \r\n Hi Skyfire,
\nAny update on your project? I want to know your casting results. Thanks.\r\n \r\n

[rocketflier]

\r\n \r\n He hasn\'t logged in since 8/18.\r\n \r\n

[Bugster]

\r\n \r\n Really an intersting tread, to bad it stopped here.\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n Hi guys who read this thread before. I\'m sorry for not updating my thread for over a year for many reasons of busy working. I think maybe this thread has been forgot but I just get some time because of CNY break time. So I will continue the unfinished work and make it to the end as promissed. so sorry again.
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\r\nseems some of my former pictures of the mold building has expired now. but actually I have casted the machine structure parts one year ago together with our other casting parts. so they are actually stored for very long time. so I think the casting are actually very stable now. It\'s a good thing for castings of machine make me some comfortable. So the heat treating progress can be skiped now. I will directly do the machining process now.\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n I just made a quick plan for the prototype buidling. actually I\'m thinking of make a new final product bring to market. I don\'t clearly know the small desktop CNC market will be for this one, but I\'m sure this will be something worth.
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\r\nokey. here is the planning now:
\r\na. I will machining the casting parts with my bigger CNC machine. but maybe just manually oprating for no much time to program and some possible temperary adjusting for the first one. The parts have been rough machined already before a year and jsut left about 1mm machining remaining. so I will just need to do the finishing machining.
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\r\nb. I have already purchased the ballscrews and linear parts long time ago. for initial prototype, I just ordered rolled type ballscrews of P7 class. Actually they should be enough accuracy for most hobby working especially for the small travel distance. Ofcourse grind type of P3 class ones are also avaliable and better. I ordered some HIWIN linear parts for this building of C class also. and maybe H class next for better. just not decided yet. or maybe just optional.
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\r\nc. I decide to develop a small milling spindle unit for this milling machine. I considered much about the electric spindle units and think it should be exchangable both of them. some times milling spindle is best for mill cutting. but sometimes electric spinle will be best for carving. So I planning a milling spindle of ER25, MAX 3000-5000RPM, MAX torque 2N.M, synchronous drive, same OD as electric spindles of 65mm. so it can be exchangable with some 800W or 1.5KW, 24000RPM electric ones.
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\r\nd. The spindle driving I want to use a BLDC one of around 0.75-1HP one. I have two reasons for this selection: firstly, the BLDC motor has much better torque and power than AC ones in similiar size; secondary, I have a BLDC driver sample from some engineering side for very long time and never tested before. so, I will do this together^-^.
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\r\ne. The axis drive will use the tradional steppers firstly. just easy to apply for initial building and no problem for common usage. I have also thought of the SERVO ones, but I don\'t want to make it to complex for begining even I have some good resource to get such servo ones. but I also keep it for optional. A further thinking is using GIVIs to buid a full-closed loop servo system. but won\'t do it now.
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\r\nf. A full enclosure is still a consideration now. Actually I will start to design it soon. Since it\'s just a mini desktop machine, I will make the enclosure in compact size also, but of course, enough for oprating. and all other accesories will be considered also as the industrial machines. I\'m not very sure the enclosure is very necessory to everybody. maybe I should build a machine just with a tray of worktable, and a electric control box placing aside? ? just to be decided.
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\r\ng. About the electric system, I\'m planning to contain the power system, I think should be around 400W capacity for axis drivers. Transformer is the best for best overload capacity. but if I found a good switch power one, I will consider it also. A BLDC driver, or a VFD driver is basic part. The stepper/servo dirvers, I will design to 4 to leave remaining for possible 4th axis next. And the interface board of parallel port using MACH software etc. but some USB MODBUS interface will be a longterm planning. Home switches, limit switches are also contained. Some simple LEDs to show the status with other POWER switch, ESTOP button on control pannel; sys fan, work light, cooling system for electric spindle... Just one by one next.
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\r\nokey. just thinking the items above. any ideas just be welcomed. I\'d like to talk on any subjects. Thanks again guys.\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n Here are some pictures taken a year before in the casting factory. It\'s lucky they are still in my camera. The castings were just left outside in the yard. They will look bad with many rust. But believe me, this is very good thing for casting stability.
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\r\nThe casting surface quality look good. I guess my molds were working well^-^.
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[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n Hi guys, I picked out the casting parts just now. They have been stored in the corner long time. So have some rust even had been painted before.
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\r\nThe parts are realy some heavy by the structure thickness of 12-14mm. So the total stifness should be very good on such mini desktop size machine. We will see the result when finishing.
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\r\nI will start the machining now and upload some cutting process and finished part then.
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[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n I did some machining today start from the base part. Only get one part done after half a day by manual operation with a DRO on machine. It\'s some slowly because need to exchange mill tool, drill tools frequently. but the process is smooth. I totally got 7 base casting pieces now-' + '-actually I had just wanted 1-2 pieces for prototype but the supplier totally made 7 sets for me by mistake. so I think I will write a G code program for remains to save time and my energy.
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\r\nI took several pictues during the machining to share now. I have to say this is the real begining to build a CNC. just geting more and more interesting from now. But it means hard works start also and no exciting point until now.
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\r\nstart milling the slot for linear rails:
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\r\ndrill many holes for screws:
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\r\nthe first finished base part:
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[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n About machining, I have some addtional points to say here.
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\r\na. the machining accuracy is very important especially to build a new machine. Normally, if you want to build a machine with a decided accuracy level, you need to make sure the machining accuracy is of a higher level. but it\'s not very certain now if you are using linear parts. the machining level could be the same as you want to build. or some traditional manual fixing method will work too after initial machining. Human hand is always the best tool until now for building machine-' + '-' + '-maybe not ture anymore in future, I guess.
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\r\nb. the CNC mill machine I\'m using in this building, is some much bigger one I developed before. the accuracy on every dimensions are within 0.02mm(0.001"). This had been carefully adjusted and just the same accuracy level I want this build achieve. So that\'s related to the point I mentioned above on linear part application. So If going smooth, the machining parts will be just usable without scraping or some other post conduct. We will see when assembling then.
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\r\nc. I will also need to say, the whole machine structure is not as solid as most people think. Actually it\'s a "flexible" system. so must ensure some good finishing milling to the castings to avoid unexpected accuracy lost. Every step of the building must try to eliminate possible error to make sure the last assembled machine to be a precision one.
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\r\nCheers. Thanks for reading and welcome any input.\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n Hi everyone.
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\r\nI machined the worktable piece today. This is some key important part for whole machine. The milling must be very smooth and the position of all the mounting screw holes must be accurate. So I wrote a simple G code program and machined this piece with MACH software control.
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\r\nIt\'s still some boring work by much dirt and chips... but get some comfortable after the milling and drilling works. Here are the machining progress pictures.
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\r\nAfter the rail slot milling and drilling works, I found the top surface and side surface are not very accurate. This will make the next works much hard. So I milled the sufaces with a big surface mill tool.
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[ebrewste]

\r\n \r\n Very interesting thread! I\'m happy you came back to show progress.\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n :cheers:

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Very interesting thread! I\'m happy you came back to show progress.

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Hi ebrewste, thank you for input. I\'m so sorry for pause of this thread over a year for many reasons. I will finish it this time and promise to bring an exciting real benchtop CNC mill. Please keep an eye on this thread.
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[Skyfire]

\r\n \r\n Then I cleaned the worktable part and tried to install the liear rails. It seemed the rails are fit well and mounting holes are exactly the right position. So It\'s a first succeful step now.
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\r\nThe worktable is still not good looking now. It will be ground to be shining and will be nice then. But the most important thing is to make the worktable surface very smooth with the error under 0.01mm. Normally, it should be 0.005mm. I don\'t have a grind machine, so I will send to some machining side work for me later and just leave it as it is now.
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\r\njust finish top surface mill:
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\r\ntry to install the linear rails:
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[Winterwatchers]

\r\n \r\n I went back to the beginning post and I don\'t see the dimensions and travels on that mill. Care to tell us? Great work btw, how much did it cost you to have them cast?\r\n \r\n

[Skyfire]

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I went back to the beginning post and I don\'t see the dimensions and travels on that mill. Care to tell us? Great work btw, how much did it cost you to have them cast?

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Hi Winterwatchers, thank you for reading my thread.
\r\nI must forgot to mark the dimensions and travel range before. Sure, I can tell the dimension features.
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\r\nThe overall dimension will be L*W*H :19"*19"*28.3"(maybe some small difference depending on motor length)
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\r\nThe traveling was designed to be: XYZ 8"*5"*8", but have some remaining distance so should be slightly bigger than this(around 8.3"*5.3"*8.3").
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\r\nI\'d like to talk some about the castings too. I can\'t remember the exact cost when casting but the total weight is around 90kg(198lbs), so roughly the net casting cost then should be around $120. Castings, you know, is not a big cost part of a precision machine. If you don\'t require good material, it can be even cheaper. But if you want some real things like meehanite, it will be much more expensive.
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\r\nglad to talk, cheers~\r\n \r\n

[LUCKY13]

Skyfire good looking job your doing there, and thanks for posting your work.


A picture of someone standing beside the parts would help to give some scale of the size of the machine.


Being a person who has bought some of these machines I wander why adding more casting is not used? I am sure cost becomes a problem but more ridged machines would be better for many people.

Without a finished product though its hard to judge what the machine is really made like so I may be speaking out of line here so forgive me if I am.

Many of us that buy these machines always end up doing modifications to the machines to help make them stronger. But like I said, its hard to judge from a picture what I am looking at. I will be looking forward to seeing your finished castings.


And again thank you for sharing your work with us. Its not to often we get to see first hand a build from start to finish.



Thank You , Jess